HeliService International win Lincs & Notts Air Ambulance
Competition in the UK HEMS market is increasing with both Gama and HeliService International entering the fray.
Sorry I cannot post the link to Helihub webpage, but "HeliService Managing Partner, Oliver Freiland: HeliService is proud to be selected to provide the flight operations to Lincolnshire & Nottinghamshire Air Ambulance. For HeliService it is an important milestone as we are entering the UK HEMS market. We thank Lincolnshire & Nottinghamshire Air Ambulance for their trust in HeliService and we will do our utmost to provide the very best service to the Charity and the people of Lincolnshire and Nottinghamshire.” |
That will put many noses out of joint in Staverton [and possibly Farnborough].
The Helihub article also points out that it is our old friend Henk Schaeken behind this deal. |
Interesting also on Companies House website for HELI SERVICE INTERNATIONAL LIMITED (12820744)
Registered office address changed from Pegasus House 463a Glossop Road Sheffield S10 2QD United Kingdom to C/O Lincs & Notts Air Ambulance Hems Way, Off Sleaford Road Bracebridge Heath Lincoln LN5 2GW on 22 April 2021. |
Isn't that the German operator Heli Services from Emden, breaking into the UK market as the first European operator after Brexit?
|
Correct, but let's not get started on the benefits of Brexit.
|
Think that would be a German company with a UK AOC. Aren’t Wiking doing the same?
Wouldn‘t that make them a British operator? Vorsprung durch Worknick |
Hence the UK registered office which would be a prerequisite for UK AOC.
|
No idea why these charities are outsourcing anyway. As soon as private enterprise comes along, the thieving starts. I would never donate to a charity that utilizes a private operator. For-profit just means everybody at the bottom of the totem pole gets shafted. No doubt they'll publish the rudimentary smiling management team image soon - you know the one, standing in front of the machine looking like Bodie, Doyle and Cowley.
|
Originally Posted by Sir Korsky
(Post 11032346)
No idea why these charities are outsourcing anyway. As soon as private enterprise comes along, the thieving starts. I would never donate to a charity that utilizes a private operator. For-profit just means everybody at the bottom of the totem pole gets shafted. No doubt they'll publish the rudimentary smiling management team image soon - you know the one, standing in front of the machine looking like Bodie, Doyle and Cowley.
|
Originally Posted by OldLurker
(Post 11032372)
HEMS isn't for amateurs, on this side of the pond anyway. UK air ambulance charities are local charities that just don't have the expertise or critical mass to operate, maintain and fly helicopters to professional standards. They all (AFAIK) outsource operations to companies such as Babcock that specialise in providing air ambulance services. They have a very good safety record: there's been only one crash (that I know of) of an air ambulance helicopter in the UK (Kent Air Ambulance in 1998).
|
But all those charities pay their crews bottom dollar whilst rewarding the 'executives' - I think that's what Sir Korsky is alluding to with the thieving comment.
Not for profit just means you can trouser (sorry, distribute) your funds without pandering to shareholders. |
The little cogs never get greased when profit is the driver. Seen it and sick of it. Call it business, but when honestly intended public charitable donations are filling the cess pool, I tend to get mighty aggravated. How difficult can it be? You need a few experienced drivers, a few mechanics and a simple management structure and a ticket. Profit in aviation is the root of all evil.
|
Originally Posted by helicrazi
(Post 11032387)
Isnt Devon a stand alone?
Will be interesting to see a new operator in the HEMS market. |
Originally Posted by helicrazi
(Post 11032387)
Isnt Devon a stand alone?
|
Originally Posted by torqueshow
(Post 11032476)
Devon and Wiltshire are independent. Thames Valley has just advertised for a Chief Pilot position specifically mentioning a transfer to an independent AOC.
Will be interesting to see a new operator in the HEMS market. Is this Heliservice‘s first HEMS contract? Not much room in the German market with DFS and ADAC covering almost everything, I imagine. |
Heliservice have been working with AW169s for a while and according to heir website they have been working with REGA.
:ok: Even though they need to employ extra staff to service the AOC it appears many find it cheaper to go for their own. It is a way of burning all the embarassing bank balances they accrue from good fund raising... it is there to look after them when a 'rainy day' comes along. It saves them even more money overall so they need to buy a bigger or better helicopter and then they need to buy a field for building on and then build a snazzy new base that saves them yet more money.... Along comes a money slowing coronavirus that might be classified as the rainy day so they plead poverty and yet more more comes in... So now what do they do with the bank balance? Just kidding but it does have some truth in it! |
Profit in aviation is the root of all evil |
Originally Posted by megan
(Post 11032613)
You could remove the "aviation" and insert "business". Remember when our big boss two or three decades ago put out an edict that no one would be getting a pay rise one particular year because of poor returns, he however got a US$2 million raise taking his total take home to US$38 million.
" Greed" is the source of all evil.... Nothing wrong with profit-thats the motivation that drives almost everything..... Things turn sour when greed takes over, and the one on top has to throw out the golden door handles to replace them with new ones because the old ones are dirty, while the ones at the bottom of the food chain don't know how to pay for their food... |
Originally Posted by Torquetalk
(Post 11032325)
Think that would be a German company with a UK AOC. Aren’t Wiking doing the same?
Wouldn‘t that make them a British operator? Vorsprung durch Worknick |
Originally Posted by Medevac999
(Post 11032645)
Does Heliservice and Wiking have a UK AOC?
I suspect HeliServices have an AOC application in, but did pick up on the use of the word cabotage by Rob Bishton in relation to ‘air ambulance’ operations so perhaps they have an agreement to allow some EU based AOCs to operate within the U.K. for a period? I can’t substantiate it, or any potential gains to U.K. operators from such an arrangement, but if true it would appear to present another kick in the teeth from Brexit, and in my opinion a lack of judgement given the lack of reciprocity agreed this far. The helihub link says “The operator is already on the UK CAA’s list of approved European operators who can fly commercially in the UK” read into that what you will. Heli Service are not listed as having a TCO approval https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-ind...-Certificates/ https://helihub.com/2021/04/22/germa...uk-ems-market/“ |
How about combining all the air ambulance charities into one - saves on a lot of CEOs salaries - then have one company provide aircraft, pilots and engineering.
Economies of scale, mutual cross cover, the ability to move 'odd' people to different ponds, standardisation across the board, one or maybe two aircraft types, one AOC - the list goes on. Sounds a bit like the SAR contract but perhaps that is exactly what is needed instead of this fragmented and inefficient set up we have now. Put the police air provision into the equation as well and share the funding between Govt and the 'single' charity. |
Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 11032690)
How about combining all the air ambulance charities into one - saves on a lot of CEOs salaries - then have one company provide aircraft, pilots and engineering.
Economies of scale, mutual cross cover, the ability to move 'odd' people to different ponds, standardisation across the board, one or maybe two aircraft types, one AOC - the list goes on. Sounds a bit like the SAR contract but perhaps that is exactly what is needed instead of this fragmented and inefficient set up we have now. Put the police air provision into the equation as well and share the funding between Govt and the 'single' charity. |
UK AOC - or do they piggy back onto an existing UK AOC from a negotiated agreement ? What about getting an Foreign Carrier Permit or Article 250 Permit from the CAA for temporary ops and keep re-applying as required.......
|
At the risk of sounding like a cyclic, isn't that exactly what NPAS was meant to do? Doesn't seem to have worked terribly well. |
Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 11032690)
How about combining all the air ambulance charities into one - saves on a lot of CEOs salaries - then have one company provide aircraft, pilots and engineering.
Economies of scale, mutual cross cover, the ability to move 'odd' people to different ponds, standardisation across the board, one or maybe two aircraft types, one AOC - the list goes on. Sounds a bit like the SAR contract but perhaps that is exactly what is needed instead of this fragmented and inefficient set up we have now. Put the police air provision into the equation as well and share the funding between Govt and the 'single' charity. |
Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 11032690)
How about combining all the air ambulance charities into one - saves on a lot of CEOs salaries - then have one company provide aircraft, pilots and engineering.
|
100% agree Sir K. We should not have to rely on charitable donations to fund an emergency service, but I suppose like the lifeboats, the government gets it for free at the moment, so there is no incentive for them to invite the headache of taking it on.
|
The charity model is certainly not without its flaws, but so far it has worked quite well in the UK. Modern helicopters, advanced medical equipment, well-trained staff and an excellent safety record. The alternative is either government operated and be starved of investment in equipment and personnel (just look at all the Defence Reviews) or a fully commercial operation like in the US with a less than stellar safety record.
The charity model is widespread in UK society; there are more than 1,600 cancer charities alone. Of course the excesses need to be tackled, but the current system has forged a strong bond between local community and their air ambulance, which simply would not exist if the service was government funded / government operated. |
The charity backed air ambulances are considerably better off than the government backed police helicopters. The Charities Commission is constantly warning the air ambulances about the spare millions they have in the bank. Millions that NPAS are desperate for!
|
Come on crab, its jobs for the boys. Look at Cornwall, we better have 2 helicopters because Devon has 2. We haven't spent enough money so we will build a big glass hanger for them and put them both in the same place. We will make them IFR so we can get to Treliske ( the pad there doesnt have an ILS so what's the point ? )
Lets be honest there is a competition between all the charities as to who can have the biggest fastest machine. I have never really understood why they all have to have a trauma doctor on board ? Would he not be more productive being at a hospital ? I still think it is better to have less expensive machines and more of them. BO 105 was small but really cheap to buy and run compared to an AW169. I know the RAF have a Chinook with a trauma team in the back for Afghan which is wear Cornwall seems to want to go. I know it is rough in Cambourne and Redruth but one doesn't step on an IED there ! |
Originally Posted by Hughes500
(Post 11032903)
Come on crab, its jobs for the boys. Look at Cornwall, we better have 2 helicopters because Devon has 2. We haven't spent enough money so we will build a big glass hanger for them and put them both in the same place. We will make them IFR so we can get to Treliske ( the pad there doesnt have an ILS so what's the point ? )
Lets be honest there is a competition between all the charities as to who can have the biggest fastest machine. I have never really understood why they all have to have a trauma doctor on board ? Would he not be more productive being at a hospital ? I still think it is better to have less expensive machines and more of them. BO 105 was small but really cheap to buy and run compared to an AW169. I know the RAF have a Chinook with a trauma team in the back for Afghan which is wear Cornwall seems to want to go. I know it is rough in Cambourne and Redruth but one doesn't step on an IED there ! |
Originally Posted by Hughes500
(Post 11032903)
Come on crab, its jobs for the boys. Look at Cornwall, we better have 2 helicopters because Devon has 2. We haven't spent enough money so we will build a big glass hanger for them and put them both in the same place. We will make them IFR so we can get to Treliske ( the pad there doesnt have an ILS so what's the point ? )
Lets be honest there is a competition between all the charities as to who can have the biggest fastest machine. I have never really understood why they all have to have a trauma doctor on board ? Would he not be more productive being at a hospital ? I still think it is better to have less expensive machines and more of them. BO 105 was small but really cheap to buy and run compared to an AW169. I know the RAF have a Chinook with a trauma team in the back for Afghan which is wear Cornwall seems to want to go. I know it is rough in Cambourne and Redruth but one doesn't step on an IED there ! BO105 and ILS are not the future. Aircraft with AFCS & IFR capability and RNAV are. RNAV could open up the flyability window hugely in the coming years, pushing below CAT 1 minima, as the precision and reliability of systems is accepted. Approval of RNAV hospital approaches and approaches/departures to safe pick-up points for remote areas are all thinkable. So much better than buggering about VFR in when the weather is marginal. |
The argument for 2 aircraft in Devon and Cornwall will be the geographical size of the areas and the relatively poor road links compared to many other UK areas.
Add in the fact that the population doubles when the tourists arrive - which seems most of the year when Covid doesn't prevent travel - and the need to get to the Scillies for Cornwall and you start to see why two is a better option. A central charity could still promote itself locally just as they do at the moment so the idea that the public are donating to their own AA would still be there. |
If anyone suggested removing Addenbrookes or Great Ormond Street hospital from the NHS and running them as local charities I suspect the men in white coats would come round. Both these hospitals have serious charities that rightly or wrongly provide additional funding but they are core funded and managed according to NHS standards using NHS employed doctors and nurses under NHS control. Most air ambulance work is trauma which is a multispecialty service that depends upon the weakest link. No sensible clinician, starting from scratch, would allow a single link to be provided by a multitude of local charities and run outside the NHS. It is noteworthy the lack of peer reviewed audit and research about air ambulance work in the UK and the resulting lack of national guidelines and standards for the medical side.
I fully accept the high standards and innovation over the years from the aviation side but there is a difference between the NHS contracting in services it cannot provide (AOC, maintenance) and relying on a disparate provision. The charities have been fantastic and without them and public generosity we would have got nowhere. They should continue, but healthcare funding has moved on from the 1980s and air ambulance work should be part of UK healthcare in the same way as land ambulances. |
Originally Posted by homonculus
(Post 11033449)
If anyone suggested removing Addenbrookes or Great Ormond Street hospital from the NHS and running them as local charities I suspect the men in white coats would come round. Both these hospitals have serious charities that rightly or wrongly provide additional funding but they are core funded and managed according to NHS standards using NHS employed doctors and nurses under NHS control. Most air ambulance work is trauma which is a multispecialty service that depends upon the weakest link. No sensible clinician, starting from scratch, would allow a single link to be provided by a multitude of local charities and run outside the NHS. It is noteworthy the lack of peer reviewed audit and research about air ambulance work in the UK and the resulting lack of national guidelines and standards for the medical side.
I fully accept the high standards and innovation over the years from the aviation side but there is a difference between the NHS contracting in services it cannot provide (AOC, maintenance) and relying on a disparate provision. The charities have been fantastic and without them and public generosity we would have got nowhere. They should continue, but healthcare funding has moved on from the 1980s and air ambulance work should be part of UK healthcare in the same way as land ambulances. Air ambulances are regularly submitting their CQC results and a multitude of papers that confirm their benefit and also confirm outdated clinical practice that needs changing, just like any progressive clinical governance. Clinical trials and different drugs are also trialled by the specialist medics which one day may find themselves in the hands of land ambulance crews further benefitting patients that don’t require a helicopter. You may also be surprised to find that trauma does not make up as much of the work as it used to with a lot more specific medical work being undertaken. A perfect system it is not but it would be wrong to think that the clinical governance is not near identical to what is found in the ED of the local trauma centre being that the hospital directors tend to be one in the same, hospital clinical director and air ambulance director. |
Originally Posted by Torquetalk
(Post 11033044)
Only 1 aircraft means a high probability of no service due to any number of tech issues. Good case for having a spare for a time critical service,
BO105 and ILS are not the future. Aircraft with AFCS & IFR capability and RNAV are. RNAV could open up the flyability window hugely in the coming years, pushing below CAT 1 minima, as the precision and reliability of systems is accepted. Approval of RNAV hospital approaches and approaches/departures to safe pick-up points for remote areas are all thinkable. So much better than buggering about VFR in when the weather is marginal. Until we send up our own SBAS satellite which seems to be the farcical solution being proposed by government. |
"I don't think that anybody should have their life dependent upon a charity"
Like the RNLI? They avoid Govt oversight like the plague but do a good job - and raise a lot of cash every year |
There is a great deal of research generated by HEMS medical teams. The ethos of HEMS prehospital research goes right back to Alistair Wilson and John Nicoll who had to fight to get the London service started and then continued. One of the enduring issues with this type of prehospital work is its difficulty. Look at the amount of effort put into the Paramedic 2 study and its results are still questioned. Far more needs to be done.
There are perfectly good audit programmes and protocols that are frequently and well trained in all UK HEMS systems. |
Originally Posted by torqueshow
(Post 11032782)
I wonder how that would work from a fundraising aspect as a charity. The money generally comes from the same donors and businesses where there’s a feeling of local pride over their county’s air ambulance provider. Someone donating in Northumberland may not feel like they see the benefit of their donation if they think it’s being spent in Cornwall.
My first thought was that he might be a fraudster. He seemed to have authentic I.d. but it was immediately obvious from it that he was trying to get me to sign up to support a unit that wasn’t our local one at all. I pointed out he was in the wrong county! He asked me why I was saying that and I pointed out that I was in the industry and worked from the same airfield as the unit he was collecting for. I also told him that “my local” air ambulance was about sixty miles from the one he was representing, that a friend was chief pilot of that unit and we already supported that one. The chap got quite defensive and grumpy; needless to say he didn’t get my bank details. |
STARS - Canada’s HEMS charity
STARS is a HEMS charity covering two provinces in Canada - multiple bases across a vast area. One organization, one AOC, multiple helicopters. Makes more sense!
https://stars.ca/ |
All times are GMT. The time now is 17:59. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.