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-   -   NPAS News 2021 (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/637792-npas-news-2021-a.html)

PANews 22nd Jun 2021 14:45

When the last creation of NPAS was attempted it was pretty clear that West Yorkshire were the only bidders.

After the caning that West Yorkshire has taken thanks to its operation of NPAS it seems very unlikely that any other police force would again step forward to be so abused. Those 40 plus forces that said 'you must be joking' last time the offer was on the table were the intelligent ones.

Who has the crystal ball to suggest where we go from here?

It will take all the brains in the country [and maybe outside it as well] to suggest a way forward. Even getting them to meet in one place as equals will be a major achievement. And first we have to decide who are the right people!

If I were to suggest any one name as a start there would be an argument by six others stating why that person was the wrong one. There is no clean Mother Teresa figure out there.... or is there?


handysnaks 22nd Jun 2021 16:37

PANews, Although history shows there were no other takers for the job of running NPAS, I believe that in the original 'Chiefs' Meeting following the decision to create NPAS there was another force interested in running the whole thing. However as soon as W Yorks took one pace forward to volunteer. That CC took a subtle step backwards and let them get on with it.

ShyTorque 22nd Jun 2021 16:49

Whoever runs this "RGF" next, I hope they do it more effectively. I find the "Police Interceptors" and similar TV programmes so frustrating to watch. Jobs such as vehicle pursuits having to be called off because they were deemed too dangerous...no helicopter on scene to complete the job whilst allowing the cars to back off...which used to make the situation far, far safer for everyone concerned..... Someone needs locking up over this whole debacle - not just the criminals! :mad:

Spanish Waltzer 22nd Jun 2021 17:04

Shame it can’t be wrapped up in the ongoing UK Government SAR re-tender……just saying 😉

MightyGem 24th Jun 2021 12:48

A recent Helihub article:
https://helihub.com/2021/06/18/uk-ma...028WU12Md2moFM

Out with some ex colleagues last night. It just gets worse. Bases being reduced to 12 hours. Bases offline due to lack of aircraft, pilots or TFOs. Pilots being allowed to get their CAA medicals during work time, thereby putting the base offline. One day recently, there was just one NPAS Base operational.

PANews 24th Jun 2021 18:24

NPAS have put out a government tender for industry to run NPAS and London [separately] as well as provide new airframes.

This was something that was explored a year ago but I am not aware of the interest in any industry feedback.

Aside from the sheer cost of this plan, Howe anyone expects industry to get this up and running in the next 50 weeks escapes me. It took a decade to arrive where we are and I cannot see anyone undoing that little lot in the time allowed. If industry takes it up perhaps it will shut down most of it and restart each element when it can get it to work to their standards.

gipsymagpie 25th Jun 2021 15:24

NPAS Tender
So looks like 7 outside London and a service level based number inside (ie enough helicopters to provide a set level of availability). Similar to current or is that less?

H135T3H/H145D3 pairing has got to be near the front of the queue for this?

​​​

Thud_and_Blunder 26th Jun 2021 12:06

What an interesting read that tender makes. Down to 7 aircraft outside London? Wow.... just, ...wow.
:yuk:

Cabby 26th Jun 2021 18:35

NPAS tender document.
 
The NPAS tender mentions "rotary aircraft".

The NPAS fixed wing p68's which took years to come on line, aren't mentioned anywhere.

Any clues to which 7 aircraft will be left outside of the London area?

PANews 27th Jun 2021 08:00


Originally Posted by Cabby (Post 11068811)
The NPAS tender mentions "rotary aircraft".

The NPAS fixed wing p68's which took years to come on line, aren't mentioned anywhere.

Any clues to which 7 aircraft will be left outside of the London area?

There are many unanswered elements in the papers so far released. No mention of the existing airframes at all, that might suggest the plan [it is not yet a tender] is 7 plus Met plus existing fleet however the successful tenderer might wish to operate them.

But of course it is not a plan.

NPAS has produced dozens of plans over the years but none of them has lasted long enough to come to fruition. Until something suggests otherwise I expect that the plan will be whatever industry can live with. Even 7 plus Met (2 + a spare) is going to be a big dent in someones piggy bank. £100M?

Cabby 27th Jun 2021 09:14


Originally Posted by PANews (Post 11069052)
There are many unanswered elements in the papers so far released. No mention of the existing airframes at all, that might suggest the plan [it is not yet a tender] is 7 plus Met plus existing fleet however the successful tenderer might wish to operate them.

But of course it is not a plan.

NPAS has produced dozens of plans over the years but none of them has lasted long enough to come to fruition. Until something suggests otherwise I expect that the plan will be whatever industry can live with. Even 7 plus Met (2 + a spare) is going to be a big dent in someones piggy bank. £100M?

Thanks for the reply PAN.

How many staff members do NPAS employ, and is anyone aware of the payscales?

PANews 28th Jun 2021 09:34

As we know Annual Reports are scarce and inconsistent in the information given ... but the 2015 version gives a grand total of 340 people directly involved [such as the Strategic Board members, maintenance organisation, PCC would be significant extras].
The numbers from that report state 180 TFOs and 87 pilots.

The 'compact' and less informative 2018 report gives the overall staff numbers as 332. Current Police Officer payscales are going to be variable but an example is given at https://www.polfed.org/norfolk/infor...nk-pay-scales/

A lot has happened since the last report from NPAS and it has been promised for months now. I suspect that they may never appear.

Bravo73 28th Jun 2021 12:21


Originally Posted by Thud_and_Blunder (Post 11068645)
Down to 7 aircraft outside London? Wow.... just, ...wow.
:yuk:

Out of interest, how many was it pre-NPAS?

Cabby 28th Jun 2021 12:38


Originally Posted by PANews (Post 11069654)
As we know Annual Reports are scarce and inconsistent in the information given ... but the 2015 version gives a grand total of 340 people directly involved [such as the Strategic Board members, maintenance organisation, PCC would be significant extras].
The numbers from that report state 180 TFOs and 87 pilots.

The 'compact' and less informative 2018 report gives the overall staff numbers as 332. Current Police Officer payscales are going to be variable but an example is given at https://www.polfed.org/norfolk/infor...nk-pay-scales/

A lot has happened since the last report from NPAS and it has been promised for months now. I suspect that they may never appear.

Thanks PAN, it seems strange that NPAS are a public body, but they don't provide details of the financial costs of the operation?

I wonder how much the senior management are paying themselves?

Not sure who has oversight of the operation, but it sounds like its going to be a very expensive operation for a private company with so many staff involved at the moment.

helihub 29th Jun 2021 14:14

Where does it say that the plan to acquire 7 helicopters under a fleet replacement program is the whole fleet? Check the wording


the lease or capital purchase of a number of Police Role Equipped Rotary Aircraft as part of a national fleet replacement programme

Thud_and_Blunder 29th Jun 2021 17:28


Out of interest, how many was it pre-NPAS?
Memory isn't great - I believe it was around 16 rotary/3 fixed-wing in England, 3 in Wales and 1 in Scotland, plus the 3 in London. Stand by for corrections...

Where does it say that the plan to acquire 7 helicopters under a fleet replacement program is the whole fleet? Check the wording
Very sound observation - thanks

MightyGem 29th Jun 2021 21:27

33 helicopters from 27 bases by 2010. GMP also had a fixed wing and Cheshire and Hampshire may have got rid of theirs by then.

PANews 22nd Jul 2021 08:41

I know we blame the 'management' but the mindless activities on NPAS go far higher than that.

Last November the UK gave France £28M to provide patrols along the French coast so that Migrants could be stopped from making the journey to England. Magically the numbers safely making the journey went through the roof!

Having worked that out the same government department is to pay another £54M to the same French government to provide patrols along the French coast "so that Migrants could be stopped from making the journey to England."

So far £82M has been paid out to France in 8 months. That was about double the UK police annual budget for air support that was set to be cut by creating NPAS. And that does not include the millions pumped into UK SAR to get them patrolling the English Channel for half the day.

These people need to go to business school.

[email protected] 22nd Jul 2021 12:31

Both of which come under the same inept minister's responsibility

backtothebeat 22nd Jul 2021 13:26

nothing is new in police work.
I posted this almost a decade ago. .!




https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/55...ml#post8874796


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