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Kauai tour helicopter missing 27th Dec 2019
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/1...eople-onboard/ By HNN Staff | December 26, 2019 at 9:51 PM HST - Updated December 27 at 2:53 PM HONOLULU, Hawaii (HawaiiNewsNow) - The wreckage of a helicopter that went missing Thursday while on a tour of Kauai’s Na Pali Coast has been found in a remote area of the island, officials confirmed. There were seven people, including two children, onboard the chopper when it went down. Authorities fear there were no survivors in the crash, multiple sources told to Hawaii News Now. Kauai Mayor Derek Kawakami said the county is working to contact the families of those involved and assess the crash area. “We want to offer our thoughts and prayers to everyone involved,” Kawakami said. First responders found the chopper wreckage about 9:30 am. Friday in a remote area of Kokee, about 13 miles north of Hanapepe. When asked whether there were any survivors, Kauai Fire Department Battalion Chief Sol Kanoho said at a news conference Friday that he has “no actionable information on the status of the passengers.” He said in addition to the pilot, there were two groups of passengers onboard the chopper ― a party of two and a party of four.NTSB is investigating The FAA said the helicopter that went down was a Eurocopter AS350 B2. The agency said it will work with the NTSB as it investigates the cause of the crash. Kanoho said the helicopter went down on a “prescribed route” for air tours, indicating that the pilot didn’t deviate on the way back to Lihue. The aircraft was due to return from the Na Pali Coast tour at 5:21 p.m. Thursday. When the helicopter didn’t get back by 6 p.m., the Coast Guard was alerted and a search was launched. According to a preliminary report, authorities last made contact with the helicopter around 4:40 p.m., when the pilot reported that the tour was leaving the Waimea Canyon area.‘Our thoughts are with the families’ The aircraft belongs to Safari Helicopters, a tour helicopter company based in Lihue. Company officials declined to comment Friday. In a statement Friday afternoon, Gov. David Ige said the state has offered its support as “rescue and recovery efforts continue.” He added, “Our thoughts are with the families of those onboard as search and rescue crews work at the site of the helicopter crash on Kauai.” The aircraft was equipped with an electronic locator, but it didn’t go off. After the chopper went missing, the Coast Guard launched a search by air and sea. The Navy, Civil Air Patrol, Department of Land and Natural Resources, the Kauai National Guard, and commercial helicopters subsequently joined the search. Petty Officer 1st Class Robert Cox, of Coast Guard Joint Rescue Command Center Honolulu, said weather conditions in the search area were “challenging" with low visibility and blustery winds.Third helicopter crash in 2019 The incident is the third helicopter crash in Hawaii so far this year. In April, a helicopter went down on a busy Kailua street, killing all three people onboard. That same month, a state-contracted helicopter crashed in Sacred Falls Valley on Oahu’s North Shore. Four people in the craft escaped injury. Other recent incidents include:
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Quotes in the press are saying the helicopter belongs to Safari Helicopter Tours and is an ASTAR 350 B2
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I suspect they know within a few miles where the aircraft is located, based upon the reports centering on the Napali coast. Most have satellite trackers on board these days, I am not sure as to whether Safari does or not.
I flew tours on Kauai for 7 years. I remember one going missing about the same time of day before I left, at first light, every helicopter on the Island got airborne to search, we loaded up the helicopters with "observers", (mostly our office staff---it did not matter which company, people just got on the next helicopter with open seats), it was not till 14:00 that we located the wreckage of that one. Kauai is an inhospitable place. The fact that there is no beacon going off does not bode well. |
Gordy, did you have a regular flight path over the Napali? I would think if it was down over land the ELT would have pinged. Not sure what time of day this occured, but there are also boat tours for whale watching over that way. Surprised (a bit) that no vessels in the vicinity.
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Originally Posted by letsjet
(Post 10648401)
Gordy, did you have a regular flight path over the Napali? I would think if it was down over land the ELT would have pinged. Not sure what time of day this occured, but there are also boat tours for whale watching over that way. Surprised (a bit) that no vessels in the vicinity.
Most boat tours have left that portion of the shoreline by that time....(around 5pm). |
Gordy ,Rgr....
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Wreckage Found
Looks like they found it in Nualolo valley which is about 500 feet to the West of Honopu valley. No survivors. |
"Petty Officer 1st Class Robert Cox, of Coast Guard Joint Rescue Command Center Honolulu, said Thursday night that weather conditions in the search area were “challenging" with low visibility and blustery winds."
I decided to check for myself and while airport conditions might be far from what's going on at the Napali Coast, this does give an indication. Perhaps some other pilots in the area at the time will report the conditions. https://aviationweather.gov/metar/da...=off&layout=on Not the best conditions for a tour over the Napali....Perhaps you've been in difficult meteorological conditions up that way and can voice your experience. When I try and visualize a low ceiling with high winds, the last place I would want to be is near Nualolo Valley. Sad....When I learn of these tragedies, I always think of the "what if" scenarios that would have produced a different outcome. Still trying to understand why no ELT ping. Aloha |
Originally Posted by letsjet
(Post 10648578)
Perhaps you've been in difficult meteorological conditions up that way and can voice your experience.
Originally Posted by letsjet
(Post 10648578)
Still trying to understand why no ELT ping.
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True re micro climates in Hawaii....The mountains basically collect all the rain on the rainy side.... That said, did you ever experience low ceiling or heavy cloud cover obscuring the tops of the range with winds? Perhaps you know, or we will learn if any other heli tours were active in that area at that time....I don't know if conditions were a factor in a go/no go decision....
Re ELT, I'm not sure what equip. they had aboard, but I'd be surprised if it didn't still have 121.5...In that terrain, I would think you would want some redundancy and not just 406... I agree and unfortunately I don't think it was reported missing until after 6 right around sunset. So even other operators couldn't really have launched and provided much visual help. Had to wait until daybreak. |
Originally Posted by letsjet
(Post 10648614)
That said, did you ever experience low ceiling or heavy cloud cover obscuring the tops of the range with winds?
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....7655d6bf09.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....42a62acf3e.jpg |
Snap that ELT antenna off, or bury it under wreckage, and it isn't going to do you much good. That's if it even activates in the first place. It's a nice, but somewhat unreliable, insurance policy.
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Why ELT did'nt work ?
Very sad.
They found the wreckage,ok (RIP !), but why the ELT did'nt work once again ? Rip, family and friends... |
Originally Posted by Gordy
(Post 10648600)
The walls of Nualolo valley are near vertical and the unless a satellite is directly overhead, I doubt it would pick up a transmitting beacon. I am guessing they kind of knew roughly where to look as there is also some radar coverage in that area, although it takes time to get it from Honolulu.
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Originally Posted by B87
(Post 10648673)
My understanding is the crash site was pretty close to the last position report on the traffic frequency. I suspect an ELT wouldn't have made any real difference.
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Originally Posted by Gordy
(Post 10648678)
Where did you read that? The radio position report is made at the Upper or Lower lookout depending upon weather conditions. (90% of the time you exit the canyon at the upper). From there it is mostly flat gentle sloping ground all the way to the coast. If it crashed here, chances are the ELT would work. I heard Nualolo valley, the top of which is Kokee State Park, (the other possible location). I have not heard an accurate position yet, but ifen it was in fact in the valley, there is nowhere flat and the aircraft would have dropped to the valley floor, where there is slim chance of a signal getting out. At the widest the valley is maybe 1,500' wide.
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ELT's, CPI's, ADELT's, PLB's, EPIRB's etc are all meant to provide a means of locating someone in distress, particularly in remote areas / areas lacking in radio coverage. We know that despite all the possibilities to carry such devices, they often fail to work on the day, for whatever reason.
Satellite tracking, with adequate monitoring of flightpath, seems a far more reliable method of directing SAR to the necessary location. Simply because where the signal /track stops the aircraft will be located within a 3 minute radius. It can also have an emergency mode if the crew are aware of an emergency. I think we place too much regulatory reliance on devices we know do not ensure success in rapidly locating when required. |
Originally Posted by B87
(Post 10648690)
My impression was they were at the top of the cliffs, not the bottom.
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Question :
Does anyone know of another operator flying in the vicinity at the same time? |
Originally Posted by Gordy
(Post 10648705)
Those cliffs are near vertical, so back of valley or top on Kokee are almost same thing. A typical tour route, (I have flown this route thousands of times), would have you cross the front of the valley then right turn towards the back wall and do a left descending turn in the valley and come out the front. So pure guess work, he may have hit the back wall, but pure speculation at this point.
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Originally Posted by letsjet
(Post 10648715)
Question :
Does anyone know of another operator flying in the vicinity at the same time? Check for : N963SA 1995 - EUROCOPTER AS 350 B2, Serial #: 2855 N964SA 1996 - EUROCOPTER AS 350 B2, Serial #: 2931 N985SA 1998 - EUROCOPTER AS 350 B2, Serial #: 3111 N702SA 2002 - EUROCOPTER AS 350 B2, Serial #: 3551 |
Kōke‘e, Kaua‘i
https://mauinow.com/2019/12/26/coast...na-pali-coast/ On a surreal note, I was just informed by my friend from high school that his family was on the Safari flight prior to the incident. He explained they left from Lihue and did a clockwise tour over the canyon and down into the valley and right turn around the Napali over to the North and back to the airport. He said a cold front was approaching Waimea Canyon as they left. Paul was his pilot...I'm looking at a picture of them in front of the Heli now.....Crazy If I learn more I'll post... |
Originally Posted by Condor99
(Post 10648719)
All operators, so 8 to 12 choppers in flight at the time... (see FR24 history logs, or whatever...).
Check for : N963SA 1995 - EUROCOPTER AS 350 B2, Serial #: 2855 N964SA 1996 - EUROCOPTER AS 350 B2, Serial #: 2931 N985SA 1998 - EUROCOPTER AS 350 B2, Serial #: 3111 N702SA 2002 - EUROCOPTER AS 350 B2, Serial #: 3551 |
Originally Posted by voando
(Post 10648701)
ELT's, CPI's, ADELT's, PLB's, EPIRB's etc are all meant to provide a means of locating someone in distress, particularly in remote areas / areas lacking in radio coverage. We know that despite all the possibilities to carry such devices, they often fail to work on the day, for whatever reason....
I think we place too much regulatory reliance on devices we know do not ensure success in rapidly locating when required. mjb |
Originally Posted by letsjet
(Post 10648733)
Kōke‘e, Kaua‘i
they left from Lihue and did a clockwise tour over the canyon and down into the valley and right turn around the Napali over to the North and back to the airport. |
Originally Posted by letsjet
(Post 10648735)
My friend was on 5SA
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Originally Posted by mickjoebill
(Post 10648736)
For a modest outlay, providing capable passengers with PLB’s to wear would add another layer of opportunity to signal the location. |
Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 10648765)
Spidertracks on a 2 minute reporting cycle would be a better option.
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Originally Posted by B87
(Post 10648776)
Only in areas with good phone signal, which unfortunately doesn't include the Na Pali Coast
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Of course GSM based trackers would be of no use. Has to be sat tracker, out if which really only the Iridium sat network really works. Spidertracks, Garmin inReach and many other providers build sat trackers that use the Iridium sat network. We use inReach, with a tracking interval of 1 min. I believe on Spidertracks you can also specify a 1 min interval. For helicopter ops I definitely recommend a shorter interval. ELT: Analysis of dozens of accident reports show that an ELT only successfully works in about 1/3 of crashes. In the other 2/3 of cases it either doesn’t transmit, or the transmission is not received. (Others above have depicted some scenarios how this can happen. No need for me to repeat.) |
Spidetracks
Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 10648765)
Spidertracks on a 2 minute reporting cycle would be a better option.
my Company uses Spidertracks on the entire fleet. It is GPS based, it has a "panic button", a watch function and an auto-message capability. The 2 minutes standard position report can be reduced down to "continuously" (10s pings) and the position may be requested by the Operations Officers by selecting the helicopter you need to track and press a button at any time. It has a flight path deviation auto alert that you may set based on your company's decisions (variation in altitude, heading and speed within a preset time frame). I'm the Safety Manager here and I feel well more comfortable knowing that we can track every helicopter at any time and everywhere in the World. However, this doesn't change the survivability of a crash nor the possibility to rush emergency teams in poor weather conditions. So - yes - it is a good thing to have and may be really helpful in some situations but - no - it doesn't make a real difference in any possible scenario. Sad story, by the way. PE |
Sadly, the best tracker in the world won't prevent helicopters crashing in poor weather. RIP
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6 bodies found and recovered. Still working on the seventh. Some additional details as well.
https://apnews.com/4280a7415668d12f72a939865731da6a |
Originally Posted by voando
(Post 10648701)
ELT's, CPI's, ADELT's, PLB's, EPIRB's etc are all meant to provide a means of locating someone in distress, particularly in remote areas / areas lacking in radio coverage. We know that despite all the possibilities to carry such devices, they often fail to work on the day, for whatever reason.
Satellite tracking, with adequate monitoring of flightpath, seems a far more reliable method of directing SAR to the necessary location. Simply because where the signal /track stops the aircraft will be located within a 3 minute radius. It can also have an emergency mode if the crew are aware of an emergency. I think we place too much regulatory reliance on devices we know do not ensure success in rapidly locating when required. |
I believe I read in one of the reports that they had GPS tracking. It might be how they found the wreckage so quickly. Yet, they are slow to disseminate the facts. In my experience, Hawaii in particular doesn't like to release information....Suppression more than transparency....
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Inhospitable terrain
ELT operability is one thing but flight over inhospitable terrain is quite another when there is no where to go should something go wrong.
I haven't flown in Hawaii but have flown over extremely remote parts of South America where the reality was that even at altitude (5-9,000ft agl), any forced landing would likely be pretty dire. If you were fortunate enough to survive a 200 ft canopy, unknown terrain or find a gap, it would likely be a while before getting out of there. In addition to an ELT', we carried Epirbs and I had a Breitling emergency, but an equally trusted piece of gear (at least in my mind) was probably the sat phone and spare batteries should we be lucky enough to get down The point is that there is some terrain where all the emergency comms. gear in the world 'may' help, but the risk of what we are flying over is high enough that a forced landing would likely result in a recovery operation only. I am aware of at least one company that did some risk analysis on NVG flights over inhospitable terrain but when it came to determination of what constitutes inhospitable terrain for forced landings (pilots were surveyed and routes studied), no one could get anywhere without significant circumnavigation and the effort was dropped with some very vague guidance. :confused: |
Originally Posted by crunchingnumbers
(Post 10649068)
ELT operability is one thing but flight over inhospitable terrain is quite anothe.....
I had a Breitling emergency, but an equally trusted piece of gear (at least in my mind) .....: |
Originally Posted by Hot and Hi
(Post 10648894)
ELT: Analysis of dozens of accident reports show that an ELT only successfully works in about 1/3 of crashes. In the other 2/3 of cases it either doesn’t transmit, or the transmission is not received. (Others above have depicted some scenarios how this can happen. No need for me to repeat.) |
Astars and ELTs, usually mean they end up being a puddle of material incapable of transmitting anything except a smoke signal.
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Originally Posted by Gordy
(Post 10648412)
Most boat tours have left that portion of the shoreline by that time....(around 5pm).
the weather here Christmas Eve was awful. We all received emergency warnings of flooding, high winds and rains. High winds and rains continued on and off Thursday. as you know - and for the benefit of others, you experience several micro-climates on the short drive from Waimea to the top of the canyon. Friday it was warm and sunny in Waimea and 25 degrees cooler and raining at the lookout. The trade winds were blowing the rain up the valley towards the north all day. I’d imagine Thursday was quite a weather day along the coast. there are few, if any, tour boats up the coast this week. With the winds - the water has been too rough on the west and north coast and most boats have stayed on the south shore off of Lawai. Prayers to those who lost their lives. here’s the Nualolo valley on a nice clear day. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5f3517a7f.jpeg |
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