Hawaii, passenger jumps from a helicopter
 

This certainly ruffled a few feathers prompting an FAA investigation.

August 6, 2019 at 5:44 PM HST - Updated August 6 at 10:51 PM KANEOHE, Hawaii (HawaiiNewsNow) - The Federal Aviation Administration is investigating after cameras caught a helicopter flying low above boaters and beachgoers at the Kaneohe sandbar on Sunday.

At one point in the video clip sent to Hawaii News Now, you can see a passenger jumping out of the aircraft and into the ocean.



https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/0...neohe-sandbar/

Surely you are not suggesting self-preservation?

FFS :ugh: Absolutely no US laws or regulations were broken. This is no different than skydiving. The helicopter and jumper were, judged by the video, a perfectly safe distance from other people when the jumper jumped or if the engine quit. Any investigation by the FAA, if they even bother to do anything at all, will be quick, pointless, and result in no action (unless they turn up some other nonsense like an expired medical, not enough flotation devices, etc.).

You can argue about the wisdom of this event, but you can also make the same argument about skydiving, scuba diving, motorcycle riding, a hundred other things or, <shudder> actually leaving the ground in an aircraft <the horror>.

What should be happening is that they should be getting a court order that requires these fearful haters to stay in their homes, pad every sharp corner in them with bubble wrap, and require them to crawl from room to room lest they accidentally trip and fall!

Listen up you fearful haters: I am NOT YOU. DO NOT LEGISLATE RESTRICTIONS MY BEHAVIOR BASED ON YOUR FEARS.

Oh, and super-expert rescue swimmer dude: every operation in life does not have to be done to military standards. Sport skydiving methods and standards are different. Sport SCUBA diving methods and standards are different. Piloting methods and standards are different. And if they make a regular thing out of civilian swimmer delivery, no doubt those methods and standards will be different, too.

The tour industry better start pushing back HARD in Hawaii or they are going to be out of an industry fast. The voters, primarily comprised of fearful haters, outnumber them by a huge margin. Better start taking out some advertising, generating news interviews, explaining realities and telling these people to get a life, or your business life is going to end.

Sorry, this sh*t just sets me off big time. :{

Looks like two to me - there is a splash in the water and an object floating a few moments before we see the (second) jumper.

I wouldn't know anyone like that ;)

My theory is that his beer cooler fell off his lap and he couldn't bear to parted from it :)

As much as I understand jumping from a Robbo to get out of it. But would you really feel safer directly underneath?:E

I agree, no rule was broken, however, as aa777888 mentions, the Hawaii operators are fighting an uphill battle right now and acts like this do not help their plight. My sources tell me this aircraft was purchased by a group of "young kids who pooled to buy this old astro" and are basically flying around without regard for the rest of the industry.

Spunk - google the definition of object and it will say it is a thing or person.

The get out here is that they caused no hazard to other persons or property. - Still pretty stupid mind.

Also, this is the FAR the FAA applies to skydiving and parachuting operations, among other things. So semantics aside, that's how the FAA interprets it.

How is this any more or less stupid than skydiving?

Disclaimer: I am also a USPA D license holder, so perhaps my perspectives are a bit skewed ;) (and skydiving in the US is, other than FAR 91.15 and a few FAR odds and ends about equipment and riggers, self-regulating in the same manner as SCUBA diving is in the US, i.e. USPA is the functional equivalent of PADI or NAUI).

Everyone has a camera. Many have no idea what is real, legal, lawful, other than their own opinion. TV and media want to run 24x7 to get more money = Perfect ...

When I read the caption, I thought both Hawaii and a passenger jumped out of a helicopter.

jumping into any body of water you are not completely sure is safe is a good way to end up on a spinal board.- it's called tombstoning in UK (the name probably came from the US) and costs several people their lives or mobility a year in UK.

These guys may well have done a thorough recce and checked for rocks and other underwater obstacles.

Were the FAA more interested in the low flying than the jumping in?

aa - I think you skydivers are barking mad jumping out of a serviceable aircraft but if that's what floats your boat:ok: I've dropped plenty of parachutists from helicopters over the years but I still think it is tempting fate.

Anybody that jumps out of a serviceable aeroplane is a lunatic.

Not really - https://uspa.org/p/Article/a-record-...tality-summary

if i ever got back in a robbie, i would probably jump out as well.

I have however flown guys out to jump into the sea, it was a display, but i will never take parachuters, too much risk for me, with parachutes releasing in the machine...

I was dropping the Red Devils over Nicosia back in the 80s from 8000' in a Wessex when the team mistook a thumbs up from the jump leader (checking that one of his guys in the back was OK) for the pull smoke and jump signal.

They pulled the smoke and didn't jump.

In a Wessex, any smoke, smell or fumes from the cabin gets sucked straight up into the cockpit so I was IMC inside with red and blue smoke..........shouting at them to get the F out of my helicopter:)

there is a video on youtube from inside the cabin of a JR/LR after a chute had been released inside the machine, and was almost going into the Main/Tail rotor.

after watching that i decided i would leave that stuff to guys with crews in the back and wings on their shoulders. having trained Airforce crew in the back and trained jumpers under a bit more control is the way to do that. Random guys that want the thrill of jumping from a helicopter doesn't do it for me, and obviously from the above, even with all the training they can still do something silly...

As the saying goes, you can try to make something idiot proof but then along comes a better class of idiot!

Ha ha! Well, it was my door to the best kind of aviation: skydiving --> private fixed wing (can't be around airplanes all day and not know how to fly them!) --> commercial helicopter :)

But, back on thread, sort of: there is always a skewed perception of risk among the less knowledgeable. While it is difficult to make direct comparisons, your chance of dying on any given jump is not very different, and probably less, than on any given helicopter flight, on an individual basis, just looking at yearly fatality totals. So we are all crazy for leaving the ground regardless of what we might be doing when we do it. Another case in point: if I told you I was a motorcycle road racer, and I was for about a decade of my earlier life, all of you mad-for-motorcycles pilots would cheer me and possibly even be a bit jealous. But I can tell you I was far more concerned about dying doing that then skydiving. Indeed, my skydiving career also spanned roughly a decade. I never saw anyone die while skydiving and only saw one person get seriously injured (bad swoop landing--what else is new?) But I actually did see one person die when racing, and saw many, many people go the hospital with very serious injuries. So just because it looks stupid doesn't mean it is any more or less stupid than things that average people find more emotionally or intellectually accessible.

that's why the Gold Standard was being able to make something 'Squaddie-Proof' :E:)

Or so I though until I heard about a soldier throwing himself out of the personnel door in the side of a Herc in the South Atlantic for a laugh! Fortunately the monkey-harness saved him!

Approach A: Start helicopter, fly over ocean, drop pax, get filmed, get reported to FAA for investigation, impress all the local professional operators who do this for a living.

Approach B: Call the FSDO, explain plan and safety measures (task experience and recce of drop site), drop pax, get filmed, FAA handle phone calls with full knowledge of the activity.

Unless you're an actual drama queen who loves the attention (you know who you are), then some PPP to prevent PPP never hurt anybody. There is a website for people who think the rules don't apply to them, its membership is always very popular...

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/month.aspx

Assuming it wasn't a revenue flight, exactly what rules, laws or regulations did these guys break?

I'm with you, I cannot see any rule they broke. While, yes it may have been prudent to pre-warn the FAA, in reality there is nothing they can do.

You both did see that h@Two's in referred to the monthly accidents page of NTSB not the FAA website?!
If anything they broke the rule of common sense. Jumping from >20ft into murky water. Punishment for such actions will not come from the FAA but from fate.

Ridiculous. Wrap yourself in bubble wrap and stay home. Meanwhile others will continue to enjoy and live their lives to the fullest.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1a32924446.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8a3b9f6fef.png
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....cb6c310fbe.png
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a79dfaea79.png
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d2437166e0.png
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....656b081ec6.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8ff5baadf3.png

And, last but not least...

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b16598ffd1.png

Everyone dies. But not everyone really lives.

That would be true when it is just you putting your own life at risk.
When that guy got behind the controls he became accountable for the well-being of those onboard, it's one of those annoying responsibilities that comes with the job.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
If you want to go hurt yourself or others, then rather do it in a way that won't push up insurance for the rest of us or result in stiffer regulatory control by continuing to annoy the public who don't give a Monkey's nuts for whether or not it's legal.
Whatever happened to airmanship?

Let them do it once without protest and they will surely do it again and again - personal freedom comes with personal responsibilities, one of which is respect for others.

The flip side of this is respect for other people's freedom. Something that has been eroding for decades in US society, and which is accelerating here at a frightening rate. It is, of course, already long gone in most other "western" countries. It is unsurprising to find such attitudes on this list, which is really more world-centric (if not UK-centric) than US-centric.

Indeed, I was flying a couple of gents from Ireland the other day, one load on the ride concession we were operating out of a local fairground. They were immensely surprised that we could pretty much fly and land where we wanted, needing only permission of the landowner. When I was resting between shifts a couple from Greece chatted me up on the ground and made the exact same observations.

One needs to constantly push back against any encroachments on freedom. Sometimes the "system" helps you. I put an FAA registered heliport on my property (it is a very large property, well in excess of 20 acres) so that if the fearful haters ever decide to vote in zoning regulations that outlaw aircraft operations in my town I will be grandfathered (that's how the law works around these parts).

I respect my neighbor's freedoms. A little target practice? No problem. A few fireworks? The same. Keeping some pigs, or horses, or dogs, or chickens, and maybe one escaped onto my property? No problem, but that pig sure was tasty (just kidding ;)) I don't try to legislate their freedom to do these things away. Because, you know, I just might want to do the same things myself someday. And everyone gets helicopter rides, of course! But that was just gilding the lily because the traffic noise around here is actually worse then the noise I make with the helicopter.

But I know I'm a dinosaur, headed for extinction. There are too many other people who want to decide what I can do, how I can act, what I can say, and they are, sadly, winning. I could wax poetic as to why and how, but I'm already so far off track in this topic I better just stop typing. In the meantime I moved ten years ago to what will likely be one of the last bastions of freedom in the US. The only question now is whether or not this last bastion will last until I die a natural death.

Personal freedom also comes at a cost.

If someone wants to take on risk, that really is their business if it affects no one else.
That is more challenging in regulated and structured environments like aviation.
I don't know what is commonplace in the US, if people leaping out of every Robbie (or any other make for that matter) is the norm, that is y'all business.

In less civilised parts of the world you need training, approval or permissions to lob anything out of an aircraft.
That isn't because of the nanny state, it is because time has shown that with impromptu, dicking-about in an aircraft, eventually someone gets hurt.

Personally I consider good airmanship to be a bit more than if something is legal, or not. A poor choice of location and wobbly correction of a sudden change in lateral CoG doesn't help change that view.
This isn't a video that will help improve the reputation of Robbie drivers, no matter how much one does protest.

aa - the problem with your viewpoint is that it only works if you are 20 acres away from your next neighbour - very few people have that luxury nowadays in most parts of the world.

Try applying your 'freedoms' (perhaps read selfish behaviour) in a place with higher population density and problems will occur.

just because someone expects you to pay taxes and play by some pretty fair rules? You really don't know just how good you have got it.

Have you swam there? I lived in Hawaii 7 years, the water is clear most of the time.

VERY well said, and I totally agree.