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Originally Posted by PlasticCabDriver
(Post 10217379)
Perhaps being up there in those conditions was the entire point of the exercise? c/s in contact, casualties taken, about to be overrun, need extraction NOW. I wouldn't want it to be to be the first time I had done it when I had to do it for real, and I'm sure the chaps on the ground wouldn’t either. |
Wow. @crab. You were very confident in you response to the comment about it not being an inexperienced crew? I suggest that as both of them finished Lynx CTT after you left 671 then you are guessing. Willy waving maybe? I know both front seat guys. In varying contexts from time being a co-Pilot to one and to me being a SQHI for the other. This isn’t SAR or HEMS any comparison is rubbish. Yes. We all got caught out in weather, sometimes with little room to manoeuvre. Now we have dashcams. @Crab : “they will have reported low flying on landing” great assumption. I wouldn’t have reported doing that, I would have hoped nobody would have seen or taken a picture. I remember flying towards the Mull of Kintyre as a pilot @100’ over the Irish Sea thinking “there is a F@&k off hill at 19.2NM “ and dying to climb....not nice. Someone , somehow flew into it...trained and geared up for the job. Would they have been better at medium level? I remember being gathered in Afghanistan at 0300 to discuss the relief of a PB under contact where out of 24 guys, in ten mins 16 were wounded with Taliban coming over the walls on the radio. The mission to launch and help was cancelled due to low visibility, they had to fight it out till the weather cleared. Awful hearing the updates...that’s reality. Flying around S Armagh postage stamp in low vis ain’t the same. Yes, many of us have done the same. I took 4 Lynx under wires because the cloud was on top of the towers (my mistake with weather) luckily......nobody filmed me, or I would need to answer to the rule book like anyone else! |
Originally Posted by Al-bert
(Post 10216665)
Double Bogey - I'm sensing that maybe you don't like Crab? I've never met Crab, though I know that he exists, since I retired just (I think) before he joined the RAFSAR force, or Wing as I prefer to remember it, but I share his belief that you just don't get it!
During the '70's I flew SH Wessex in Germany (18Sqn) then (72 Sqn) in NI before spending 22 years on 22, 202, and 78 Sqn's flying SAR Wessex and Sea Kings. I was a Flight Commander for 4 years (hence chief authoriser - but all our Captains were self authorising) in Scotland and again Flt Cdr in Wales and Falklands at various times as a Spec Aircrew pilot. We hover taxied in cloud on occasions, sometimes up mountains, sometimes at night too. It's what we did, just like our predecessors on the bloody Whirlind, (which was always safe single engine as they used to boast! That btw was a joke). I know of no aircraft loss due to this practice and the spirit and airmanship that achieved this is what made RAFSAR the best SAR outfit in the world at the time. Only the RN would disagree with that, but they were only amateurs! :E So DB, get over it and move on. My father was a crewman during your time on the SARF, he was awarded a Royal Human Society testimonial on vellum for one night...shouldn’t have been just for him but all the crew. I grew up around RAF SAR, knowing about the “Jocks Box” and all the illustrious history. In this thread, this is not the point. It wasn’t SAR or HEMS, and I’ll be corrected if it wasn’t anything more than a task to move people. Best regards Ralph |
PCD,there are plenty of military `ranges` across the country to practice in/on/over/in rain/hail/snow/fog/smoke,day/night......
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Yes, many of us have done the same. I took 4 Lynx under wires because the cloud was on top of the towers (my mistake with weather) luckily......nobody filmed me, or I would need to answer to the rule book like anyone else! |
To be fair...those that knew and worked with the great Flt Lt John Prince can testify to his skills! Rescue: Budding Rose Gramps Challice “if we come any lower we will hit the sponson” JP “Yep, we will be fine” Gramps “so if you accept that we might damage the aircraft that’s fine” ON TV!!!!! |
Originally Posted by ShyTorque
(Post 10217558)
The RAF SH rule book allowed flight under wires; we taught it to OCU students. We were encouraged to practice it routinely on SCT.
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@crab. You were very confident in you response to the comment about it not being an inexperienced crew? I suggest that as both of them finished Lynx CTT after you left 671 then you are guessing. Willy waving maybe? If you do know those involved, you will know they will both have done exactly the right thing on return - perhaps you know even less about their unit than you do about me. they will have reported low flying on landing” great assumption. I wouldn’t have reported doing that, I would have hoped nobody would have seen or taken a picture. The RAF SH rule book allowed flight under wires; we taught it to OCU students. We were encouraged to practice it routinely on SCT. This isn’t SAR or HEMS any comparison is rubbish. Anyone else want to have a go since this thread keeps turning into open season on crab@? All I have done is defend the crew. |
Can I take it you know what has happened? Or is it your MO to speak and be checked? It’s like #pprunefactcheck You are 100,000,001 million times right that as a SQHI someone may not admit it happened. For me (and I was known to be an enthusiast of the rules) I didn’t go there...in teaching or by example. Never would I, or will I do that. |
it’s not a bashing. We have met...a few times. My View is that the military will decide the most appropriate actions..we will see |
Didn’t we all get taught to go under the wires???.....but for tactical reasons as I remember. |
Is there a particular way a Stranger can properly identify a SAR God....is there a funny handshake, a manner of dress, reserved parking place at ASDA, brass name plate on the back of a Recliner in the Crew Room or something?
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Probably all of those and more Sas - (the officer J Prince seemed to regard himself as one) I have worked with some top individuals in SAR but none of them regarded themselves as SAR Gods - just blokes and girls who got the job done, often in nasty situations and I count myself fortunate to have served alongside them and perhaps imparted some additional knowledge and skills on the way.
Ralphmalph, I know enough to defend them but nothing is for the public domain - believe me or not, that is up to you. |
I’ve set aside 2 hours tomorrow to sack all my fellow ex-SAR crews as I think DB has a point. Bunch of cowboys. |
I leave the thread and it all goes quiet? |
Usually, when you enter a Room that happens!
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Originally Posted by cyclic
(Post 10217647)
I’ve set aside 2 hours tomorrow to sack all my fellow ex-SAR crews as I think DB has a point. Bunch of cowboys. |
Did anyone else hear, @24 seconds, the lad in the back say, "I've just seen a piece fall off it" ... just after the Dad says "deary me" ?
:ooh: https://tinyurl.com/yarfovo8 |
Originally Posted by SilsoeSid
(Post 10219160)
Did anyone else hear, @24 seconds, the lad in the back say, "I've just seen a piece fall off it" ... just after the Dad says "deary me" ?
:ooh: https://tinyurl.com/yarfovo8 |
It's actually the video for the "Dad Joke"
Why did the helicopter fly into the fog? It was doing a mist approach" Yuk yuk yuk yuk - I crack myself up - yuk yuk yuk .......................... |
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