Does Blacksod have an APV or PinS let down procedure?

Jim

The article above is very enlightening but I believe it relates to the specifications of the 92 brought in for the contract straight from Sikorsky? Of note is the fact that it had EuroNav in the front which is being taken as indication that all the Irish CG S92s are the same.

Question - were the 4 aircraft that were transferred from the CHC UK Interim SAR contract also updated to have EuroNav? When they served the contract in the UK they were not fitted with EuroNav in the front so there may be a difference in aircraft modification states across the fleet. The lack of mapping in the front of 4 of the 5 aircraft might mean slightly different procedures are required depending upon which aircraft the crews are in.

The article also shows the Sikorsky derived S92 was based at Sligo whereas the Dublin aircraft was from the UK contract and therefore may not have had EuroNav mapping in the cockpit? Speculation based on what the crews may have done using a mapping system that no one is sure was actually fitted will not help, but knowing for sure what the actual fit was may be of more help?

Is there any scenario where she wasn't in the cockpit ? Are there evac hatches in the windows ? Why didn't any of the epirbs trigger ?

The problem, with the debris on the rock, is it depends on where it's found & how heavy it is. Light debris could easily be blown on to the rock or washed up. Any heavy debris, above the strandline, must of either fallen there as part of a mechanical failure or as a result of a collision.

But to me the big question is why were they anywhere near the only obstacle ? From memory Blacksod would be a gentle, flat approach from the sea with no obstacles. I also wonder why you would fly so far out before turning in to approach ?

I watch these helicopters a lot - I live by the sea. I have seen them come over Black Head (around 300 metres) & descend into the bay. I have even seen them descend from the hover. So why go 10 miles out to sea ?

I don't think APV is suited to a helipad, whereas PinS would be. I very much doubt there is such a procedure, but suspect there may be future!

Guys suggesting casualty on the fishing vessel had a minor hand injury, not life or Death! If true, serious questions have to be asked as to why two helicopters were launched at night in poor weather conditions.

Coyote - it is very common for a casualty aboard a vessel who gets a SAR helo launched, not to be anything like as bad as anticipated.

One reason is that a land-based doctor is often consulted by radio/phone and they will always err on the side of caution since they can't see the casualty and make a real assessment for themselves.

The job I mentioned earlier - 250 Nm West of Ireland was for a crewmember with 'appendicitis' , when we turned up, he was standing on the deck quite happily with his suitcase in hand and, we subsequently discovered, didn't stay that long in hospital at Shannon.

Part of the job I'm afraid.

Yes, and also the other way around - injured person standing and smoking on arrival - doctor very angry due to this - X-ray later showed this guy actually could have died by twisting the head. This was not GB or Ireland, but sure that happens for you guys also.


To make the decision to launch or not to launch isn't always that easy.

Seemed our flights in really atrocious weather always turned out to be some fellow that missed his crew change from the Rig or who wanted be on scene when his next child was conceived! But that was in a location in West Africa working in the Oil Patch. Those were offset by the genuine flights where. people really needed transport to a medical facility even if there were no first rate Trauma Centers.

I agree, a single snapshot at DH of a solitary helipad without thousands of feet of lead-in lights is not ideal. The preferred LNAV (what you call PinS) is fine for approaches over flat terrain like Blacksod where the MDA would only be 50' higher than an APV (in Canada, EASA may be different). We had them in SE Asia, east coast Canada (Sable Island?), all privately commissioned by the helicopter operator and retrievable from the FMS database. They couldn't have cost much.

The financial cost of this tragedy will probably be close to 100m, so a consideration.

The presence of signicant amounts of wreckage or important parts definitely will be of use in the investigation 's efforts to determine what happened.

There are many ways such wreckage could come to rest as it did...but examination of the pieces and the sequence in which they are positioned along the track of the aircraft will tell the story. Damage to the pieces can also point to a cause.

A very close examination of Blackrock should uncover signs of contact if that is what happened.

Recovery of the CVR and Data Recorder will yield the best account hopefully!

I've looked but can't locate any such reference. Can you provide a link or message number?

I believe it was sourced to one of the papers from Mr. Whyte.

Hi everyone, I've been following the last 10 or so pages on this. Very sad what happened. RIP.

Regarding the wreckage found on Blackrock, I saw a post on a different forum regarding it. I don't think a lot of people noticed the post. I am just quoting and not sure how accurate the information is.

"the wreckage, part of the tail, was found in the island in the area between the lighthouse and the adjoining building"

Perhaps they got it from Trump.
I do not like the "I heard XXXX but can't say where or from whom"
If you can't name a credible source please don't post.
Especially in cases such as this one.
Just my opinion.

Thanks. I was searching for a link, but I see all we have is a couple of "I've heard...." statements without even a source being quoted.

I hear lots of rumours in crewrooms, most of which turns out to be complete bo**ocks :}.

Hopefully things will become clearer sooner rather than later. :ok:

Looking at the LKP on the larger scale map of post #115, it appears to be on the N side of Blackrock. Also the pic in post #140 shows the helipad to be on the N side of the lighthouse - which would be consistent with the turn NW then turn ESE to approach the helipad. The weather reports from the nearest stations suggest that conditions around Blackrock would have been a cloud base around 200-300 ft with visibility reduced in RA/DZ and a SW'ly wind around 20kt. As a meteorologist, a stable SW'ly airstream of that strength passing over an obstacle such as Blackrock would have produced a severe downdraft on the N side of the rock (like a 'hydraulic jump' airflow) - in such situations I've known of 10 metre yachts to be flattened or even dis-masted. So if they were below the 300ft summit of the rock (perhaps with the intention of climbing to approach the helipad IFR in cloud) the downdraught conditions below the cloud base on the N side of Blackrock could well have been very difficult even for a S92.

Why would they be trying to land at Blackrock if the stated destination of Blacksod was at near sea level on flat ground?

Disappointing to see the crackpot theories starting to appear. I guess this is the vacuum being filled.

When I check my vacuum at home, it is usually full of rubbish.

From the g/s and a/s information we have, they clearly weren't!