Drones - the future
 

With developments in autonomous flight, and one eye on the tragic events in Glasgow, are drones likely to be the future direction of aerial surveillance in the domestic environment?

Current FAA/CAA controls heavily restrict usage to the point of irrelevance. I recently had a demo of a large electric six motor drone, which got airborne in a 30kt wind, and downlinked infra red as well as HD TV. However, when I would really want to use it, at night, possibly beyond visual range, to carry out an area search for a high risk missing person - I can't.

There is development to take place, but look at the Camcopter S100 System - Schiebel £ 300k, and an all up weight of 250lbs. Running a reliable turbine, these things can be up for six hours. Although it would still leave a dent, it wouldn't be quite as catastrophic in the event of a failure.

discuss?

I believe drones will be a part of our future.

Their capabilities will, like most technologies, constantly advance and as this occurs their proliferation will be ensured by that most influential of considerations, cost!

Don't be surprised if 20 years from now someone sitting in a police control room clicks on a specific map location then selects "Deploy Drone". The device will be able to self-navigate using built-in GPS, conduct preset as well as customised aerial patterns and will have the ability to record and relay (in real time) sound and video (both infrared and thermal) and no doubt much much more.

In terms of device malfunction, when something is sensed which might result in a catastrophic breakdown, the drone will simply deploy a parachute which, although unable to guarantee nil damage, will certainly lessen the blow.

The Schiebel system killed its operator in South Korea two years ago.

Amazon evaluates drones for delivery of small parcels
 

Drones are on the inmarch into everyday life ... until public (and specially urban) airspace becomes jammed up with all kinds of utility drones - what then ? GPS doesn't equate to collision-avoidance, am I wrong ? :

Des mini-drones pour acheminer les commandes chez les clients d'Amazon - high-tech - Actualités sur orange.fr

Amazon said (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25180906): "from a technology point of view, we'll be ready to enter commercial operations as soon as the necessary regulations are in place."

Yeah, maybe if the regulations come into place in 20 years from now. I really
don't believe this system could work autonomously. Collision of the drones
with each other could be easily avoided by some technical system but what about
picking a landing site, landing there without hitting thin wires or people and then ringing the door bell? Or will the drone drop the payload on the pavement so anybody can pick it up? It could maybe work if the customer would pick a safe landing site in his garden or so, but that would require customers to stay under a certain stupidity threshold in order to prevent drone loss :}

Hmm, not convinced...
 

Nice marketing stunt by Amazon. Maybe fun for the comnpany execs to thorw money at, but not convinced it will become reality anytime soon. For UAVs safety is everything; if any possible failure mode results in human injury or death then it is not acceptable. GPS is not a panacea; if it is used for safety critical flightpath control then it needs to be redundant, i.e. more than one receiver and it also needs receiver autonomous integrity monitoring (RAIM).

Imagine multitudes of these things flying down a street near you; it would be a disaster waiting to happen. What if one fails and then collides with another one, or several? Could it be absolutely guaranteed that they would stay away from airports and avoid people? I doubt it. Therefore, although the technology is fun and exciting, I would suspect the relevant regulatory bodies will make it almost impossible for such UAVs to operate in public airspace anytime soon.

Time for Drones
 

Hi
As I read in a previous post it looks that Drones will do patrol, filming and observation flights over cities, and helicopters only when pax are needed onboard, Hems, Offshore and SAR.
Police surveillance Helicopters over cities are closer to an end.


We need drone aircraft, says police chief - Telegraph

You read my mind Sir.
Police helicopters cost to much to run and the bean counters are always looking for savings, plus with SMS I am sure that it will end soon too.

Hey GF, that exact mission profile you outlined can be done by hobby-grade equipment right now. The only tricky bit would be the 'one-click on a map' thing I reckon - and all that would take is some software whizz to make a program to convert map clicks into lat/long data for the flight controller.

That's already commercially available.

Sikorsky did that with their Cypher UAV in the mid 90's.
Bryan

UAV / UAS / Drones and the Future
 

Guys and Gals,

Drones are here today and here to stay, all we have to wait for is the technology to catch up with the need and the regulation to catch up with the technology.

The Amazon announcement was nothing more than a way of them getting millions of $ free advertising the days before Black Friday and Cyber Monday, especially when people like Google have been looking at this for months.

Before any of this can happen there will need to be the development of a UAV style active avoidance system that will have to be maintained by the NATs of each country and be based on an agreed standard ala IFF but more like AIS in the marine world, otherwise the sky would chaos with Googles drones taking our Amazons drones and the military drones taking them all out......

Secondly todays GPS, even the military version is no where near accurate enough to guarantee the Amazon book gets delivered to house number 1 and not number2 so there will need to be some form of additional drone based ground / map recognition system to say "OK you are on top of the house co-ordinates, now use place recognition to land in the right spot.

Meanwhile we still need to evolve from the 15/20 min endurance that 90% of multi rotors have to at least 1 hour if not more, this is close as brushless motor tech is changing daily as is battery tech.

How do I know this, well I fly multi rotor UAV's commercially our main machines being Octocopters and Hexacopters and most of what you have alluded to on the thread I do daily and try (try being the operative word) to make money from it.
Gary

ProxDynamics' Black Hornet
 

Hi Gary, welcome to the Party ! As a professional in the drone business (paparazzi ?), how do you evaluate the 'nanocopter' ?

Black Hornet PRS - et norsk teknisk vidunder ? - Flyprat

Nano
 

I love the nano and would love to get my hands on one to play with.

The problem is that they are sooooolight that any breeze or wind and they are hard to keep in the air.

-G

Gary,
Your comment about Military GPS is a tad incorrect, my boy was using that in the Sandpit 3 years ago to drop MLRS right into areas no bigger that a carport, :cool:

Peter R-B
Lancashire :ok:

When I grow up I'm going be rich because I'm going to become a UAV Pilot... wait for it... Prosecutor. :E

The hacks (and to some extent even the professionals) are giving UAVs a bad rap by ignoring some of our fundamental existential imperatives.

Should your UAV, home built or otherwise, hit granny on her way to the market, or film sexy Linda sunbathing naked, or be caught stalking your ex-girlfirend, or just be a dangerous nuisance, then I should be able to make a nice little earner out of it.

;)

Apparently it was a trainee or novice operator at the controls and the drone made a direct hit into the control van, resulting in a fire.
There have been numerous other injuries to the public by RC category aircraft.

Whereas remarkably, no member of the public has been seriously hurt or killed during the 150 or so media and news shoot accidents where comparably far larger craft come to grief.
Based on this evidence, having a pilot at the controls is a safer option for the public albeit at the cost of those onboard who perish or who are seriously injured.



Mickjoebill

Amazon drones
 

Here is Waterstones response to Amazon drones....

I like Waterstones organic approach, as has been noted the Amazon/Google stuff is a mix of advertising, promotion of "aren't we clever" form and companies willing to spend on R&D.

The drone thing is going to happen on a wider scale for delivering stuff/assassination/surveillance/surveying, it's more of a question of when and how society deals with the shift.

Ah, imagine a World without lawyers.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4...5o1_r1_500.jpg

;)

Class G operates and relies on the requirement to "see and be seen" in order to comply with the right of way rules.

I've not yet seen or heard of a drone that can do this. It's one thing to issue a NOTAM when these things are being flown (which seems to happen now, quite rightly so), but if they are to be used on a far wider scale, the associated NOTAMS would become so plentiful that they would become ineffective. This is the present situation with regard to the increasing multitude of cranes in the London area. Surprisingly, since the tragic accident on 16th January this year near Vauxhall, every man and his dog seems to be using ever taller construction cranes. It's now impossible to plot and avoid the NOTAMed areas in any meaningful way (especially when SVFR clearances send aircraft straight towards them).

As helicopter pilots, going about our lawful business at relatively low altitudes, we are more likely to come into closer contact with drones than other airspace users. We need to be protected from the further danger of coming into contact with "blind", non-compliant drones.

Fair point but there's plenty of aforementioned avian aviators up there doing that so it won't be long before that can be emulated.

I'm not sure if accident is the right term to describe the outcome of flying VFR in blatant IMC at low level in a built up area. Drones could have advantages here from stabilisation, sensing beyond visual radiation, ability to work with hires ground models a la GPWS. And disadvantages from s/w bugs, component failures, etc

I imagine regulation and certification and maybe insurance in developed countries will dramatically hike the costs so could turn out to be a Webvan 2.0 for Amazon.

However that particular event is seen, I'm certain it was an accident; it was certainly not a deliberate occurrence.

But rather than get into that discussion (which has been previously done in great depth), the relevance was the plethora of these new NOTAMs and how they quickly become "white noise".

On the subject of noise that got a mention in Economist as a possible future nuisance in this brave new world.

I started to ponder the energy cost of general purpose deliveries. Amusingly, Paul Merton on Have I Got News for You was also on similar lines. Bloke from matternet passes judgement on AMZN:

Drone expert: Amazon's hypetastic delivery scheme a pie in the sky ? The Register

Dirigible hybrids, hydrogen come back?

Another question would be the tolerance for some low level of injury and death from something that offers both utility and maybe a lowering elsewhere, e.g. road transport.

Drones Vs Helicopters
 

Will Patrol and Observation Heliops end with Drones?

Not sure about general use drones for tasks such as commercial deliveries etc. but I believe they will end up playing a significant role in urban police operations.

My previous comments are here.

Drones Security
 

there was talk about this at my place some time ago. seeing as there's loads of gaze' knocking about now...

http://www.unmanned.co.uk/wp-content...Conversion.jpg

Northrop Grumman and Qinetiq offer UK Gazelle conversion

The RN went with the AgustaWestland (PZL-Swidnik) SW-4 for RWUAS instead.

I/C

more drones
 

BBC News - US announces six drone test sites

how will drones impact helicopter pilot jobs in the future?

FAA announcement at Fact Sheet ? FAA UAS Test Site Program

DOD "Unmanned Systems Integrated Roadmap" at http://www.defense.gov/pubs/DOD-USRM-2013.pdf

For those interested, I think that France was the first EU country to have specific laws on unmanned aircraft. Currently the DGAC is consulting on a revision of their UAS rules, with new law expected to be introduced in 2014. Topics of heated debate are the definition of populated areas and the requirements for mandatory training. Anyone interested should make their representations accordingly....

Also in France, the national aviation police (the GTA) is responding to industry’s complaints about unfair practices of a small number of UAS operators. I understand that at the end of 2013 approximately ten cases have been investigated. Under French law those found breaking the rules face a fine of up to €75,000 and/or one year of imprisonment, in addition to potential loss of license to operate UAS. To date I can find only one company, based in the South of France, that has been sanctioned.

A few experiments have already been done and there is some discussion about drones for SAR. However, bad things don't usually happen on good days, so the idea that some heath robinson, pick-it-up-and-put-it-in-the-boot little UAV is going to hunt for missing people below cliff-tops or on mountainsides with swirling 40kn winds is ludicrous.

If we end up with strike-capable military UAV being based in the UK in a few years then I can see good exercise value for them moonlighting in SAR.

Carboot drones for SAR?
 

If it's cheap and cheerful enough, a boot full of propellers might be just the ticket to guide mountain rescuers better, if the victim doesn't have their phone on. There are conditions that make life pretty miserable for the manned aircraft and foot bound searchers, and a drone that you're willing to accept might be disposable could make everyone's life safer, at some cost.

Once you start needing to book satellite time it starts getting tough to imagine it's cheap enough.

The firefighters killed in Arizona last spring might have benefited from a bit more situational awareness in bad flying weather too.

Heli-firefighting compromised by Drones
 

Dear fellow pilots.
As we are getting to terms over the loss of Hems crew in Oslo a new danger is highligted on the westcost of Norway.
This is the case, small town Lærdal is on fire, California style.!
30 houses burn down, luck has it no casualties.
From Rygge in Oslo two 412s are dispatched from Delta with fire bucets , and the only fire- fighting helicopter in Norway.
Only to find the Police telling all news and privat drone, light uav operators to clear the vally.
Aparently anyone can fly this kind of thing, what would is do to your rotor etc,.
I just doged 100 crows on takeoff today, but I can eat a lot of them with two Cfm 56s.
Question is can You live with this .!?
You Gentlemen have a big problem in Drone or UAV traffic comming.
I love to be wrong, but seldom am.!
Heads Up from BluSdUp.
Ps. Go nrk.no or vg.no to see the hamlet of Lærdal . A disaster , all survived.God must love Us.! ? Ds!

BluSdUp

So what's the problem? The drone pilot must always give way to full-size aircraft and has to look out for them at all times.

Quote:

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So what's the problem? The drone pilot must always give way to full-size aircraft and has to look out for them at all times.

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Wouldn't that mean that all drones would have to be equipped with "seeing" equipment of some sort in their direction of travel at all times for when they are overtaking another aircraft from that aircraft's blind areas? One can hardly be continually turning around to check conflicting traffic from one's rear?

If in controlled airspace they would also need a transponder surely?

cheers tet.

tet
If flown out of sight of the operator that would be needed. However civil operated "news" drones only operate in direct line of sight of the operator or his observer, who can see clearly all around the arena.

Until an aircraft pops up over the hill.
It happened in Cape Town, sightseeing helicopter coming home at 1500' and airprox with a drone filming a house.

Murphy is calling.!
 

Dear Heli comunity.
I started a thread and got diverted to this one, super, have not read the initial stuff.
With the idea of see and aviod I sugest You are all up the creek.
Imagine 3 Bell helicopters with fire bucets going flat out in a walley 1 mile times 3 miles from the sea ,closeby to the fire to save lives and property.
Gusty winds , hills allaround 6000" pluss.
Some of You are defending the use of privat and news rov, drones etc. Why?
This is a warning. We need to heed it.
Yours voried
Cpt B