PPRuNe Forums - Brantly

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I know two people who had one, both had a tailrotor drive shaft failure. Seems to be a common problem.

They weren't too happy. Both of them fly a Hiller 12 now.

I have several hundred hours in the Brantly. I have not noticed any TR authority problems and have flown in some pretty good winds. Also, there have only been a few TR shaft problems total, so it is not a common problem with them.

Okay lads .... Here's another B2 man for in 1975 I purchased G-AWDU which was a B fuel injected version. And by the way I paid the monstrous sum of £2,000 for the beast.

In those days my bos was the inimitable Roy Spooner and I liked the type so much, I suggested we take on some kind of sales agency. Roy's fledgling company was the exclusive European distibutor for Enstrom in those days.
Roy promptly dispatched me to Alva Field in Oklahoma wherew the temp happened to be minus 20 degrees. I met a certain Mr Mike Hynes who had earlier purchased the Brantley name plus several B2s and a load of parts. He renamed the firm 'Brantley-Hynes' and was running the firm with his father. He also had a 305 machine in stock.

Among the spares was a massive oven for forming the cabin glass. I was a little concerned when the efferevescent Hynes showed me a three year sales graph, which ran left to right on a gently rising curve, but which in year three jumped some 100%.

I asked the question.

"That's where I buy out the Enstrom factory" ... he cheerfully told me !

Later with Hynes as my safety pilot, I lifted the 305 to a hover, which at the time was my first ever lift with a wheeled machine. I soon realised some delicate yaw pedal control was in order as the type rotates quite nicely with an incorrect yaw pedal input.

But the 305 was a positive 'bouncer' and our older pruners will know of the Freemans of Bewdley loss in the early 70s. So I returned to the B2.

All I can say was I couldn't fault the B2s handling and the double flapping hinges do ensure a nicely balanced M/R disc and a smooth ride. Top speed wasn't as good as the R22 or the Enstrom, but still a little over 100 mph.

Later when getting a few more hours on my own machine DU, I got to like the handling in autorotation. Plenty of rotor inertia of course due to the very solid blades. I tried hard to induce a 'vortex ring' condition, but it would only offer the usual airframe buffet and random yaw and even a hint of cyclic movement would instantly recover. Likewise I couldn't induce a ground resonance even with some coarse cyclic handling. The standard Lycoming HIO always gave me 10 gph and as usual with the 360 cubic inch engine, oil consumption was virtually nil.

I was however aware of the 1970s CSE blade separation occurence and overall, my boss decided we wouldn't take the marque on.

But to repeat, I do like the type, the general handling was firm and precise and although I never tried, I'm sure the type would put on a good freestyle show, but as has been said here .... absolutely no pax movements with rotors turning. Now the type has been returned to production it could prove to be a good training machine. Beas at Kindlington used them extensively at one time and my old Chief Flying Instructor at Skyline Helicopters, Squadron Leader Tony Clarke, was a real expert on type. The last price I saw posted was $150,000 US dollars. Not much more than £75,000 at today's money rate. That makes it the lowest cost new piston factory built machine on offer anywhere, but I expect the price has gone higher now.

Hope my pennorth will help your enquirers, PM me for more details of my personal ownership, albeit she sold for £10k but inb those days 'margins' were my business.

Happy new year all pruners.

Dennis Kenyon

Forgive this post guys ... just checking the thread will accept my notes. The last longish one on Brantley autos, seems to have left for Andromeda!

Will follow up for PD Jackson shortley.
DRK

Brantley Autorotation.

Brantley Autorotation Handling.

Just a few notes that may help, gained from my 1970s experience of the G-AWDU B2B I once owned at Shoreham.

As mentioned before .... a nice ship which I was happy to own and just to say the CSE accident that took that lovely guy, Graham Meyrick from us was a 'one-off' (I cannot find any later instances of a similar blade separation) Incidentally at the time Graham was teaching Cy Rose's son to fly and I wonder if any PPs out there have any news of Cy. He was co-founder of the HCGB along with Tony Everard circa late 1960s I believe. Cy's son Greg was a highly talented sculptor in ceramics ... any news of him these days ?

But to get back to the original post and question. I quite liked the autorotational handling of the B2 which in my view was better than the 269 series and not far off the Enstrom in docility.

I used a standard 'steady state' auto speed of 45 to 50 knots in the descent bringing the initial cyclic flare in at 30 to 40 feet depending on weight and w/v. In the latter stages of flare, approx one third to one half of available collective is introduced as cyclic flare is tightened so for a second or two, both controls are being worked. Forward speed seems to bleed off quite quickly in the sink and with a slight breeze and firm cyclic, it is possible to reduce ground speed to almost zero.

With the T/R position at say ten feet AG, firm forward cyclic is necessary to achieve the skids level attitude for landing and as the machine continues sinking for the final touch down, further collective lever is used IN ARREARS to ensure a soft touch down with zero or minimum forward speed.

Generally, some right pedal is required to maintain direction as T/R authority decreases and of course .... no further lowering of lever following initial skid contact in the run-on.

Using the above sequence and favourable a/c weight and W/V , the B2 can be put down to a full stop landing with RRPM remaining in the green, albeit my experience was that at MGW, adverse density and low wind speed some residual run-on landing speed has to be accepted.

I'd have to say, being one of the more mature rotary guys, I imagine any youngsters flying the type may well have developed better techniques, but the above handling WILL ensure a non damaging landing in a real 'engine stop' given some helpful circumstances and previous type practice.

I don't know of any B2 training in the UK at present, but there must surely be a couple of 'old lags' out there who once used the type for training in the UK.

But in the 'don't try this at home' department, I have to say this exercise MUST be briefed by and practiced with a competent and type experienced instructor.

In closing .... can any ppruner tell us the latest factory position on production, and the posted selling price. I can't help feeling that IF there is some solid factory support with stocked parts, surely someone will get the type back in a UK training school.

Oh and it was a B2 that was flown into the 007 crater. I think the pilot was Pete Peckowski. Anyone know differently ?

Take care lads,

Dennis Kenyon.

AAhhh..Brantly.Lovely machine if you can put up with the wise cracks.Much superior to the Robbo in terms of robustness and you'll never tip one over with that low CG.I believe production is stalled at the moment ,with several on the line waiting for orders before being completed.Egines are in stock but some spares are getiing scarce at the moment.However thigs could change for the better soon as the Chinese owners are said to be about to wake up from their long slumber.
Biggest problem in the UK at the moment is authorised instructors and checkers,and a lack of qualified enginers.Want to come out of retirement Dennis??

Hi Heli One and ppruners all,

Tis always nice to know one is still wanted .... but that inevitable dragon AD is catching up with me.

However ... IF IF a good school was set up on the South Coast, I'd be happy to provide some part time instructor services on the type and oversee a sensible FI (R). But that's the pilot inside me talking.

Practically ... with no factory support and/or spares ... I can't help feeling the school would founder on the rocks of serviceability. So its back to the R22 and others.

Tough old business is ours.

Dennis K

Dennis,
Nice to hear from one such as yourself on the Brantly. I ran across these pics lately, I assume they're of your old gal.

http://images.fotopic.net/ylhuyb.jpg

http://images.fotopic.net/ylhuy9.jpg

Nice looking ship..for a Brantly :} I'm still searching for a good paint scheme for mine. I'm leaning toward something like the yellow and black "Wasp" over there in the UK. It's not an airframe that lends itself well to finding a good paint scheme easily. Once you get to know them though they do seem to impress. Nice flying and well engineered. I've found I really enjoy the hovering auto's, it's a bit like landing on cotton balls what with those oleos. I'm still working to get mine back in the air. Hopefully that will be in a couple months if I can get enough free time to get it done. I do find it interesting that in talking with folks, the detractors almost always seem to have little or no experience flying, owning or operating the machine. Almost without exception anyone who's ever owned or flown one any period of time will always voice their fondness for the type. Ah well such it is with lots of things in life I guess :hmm:

Flingwing I used to be half owner of Brantly G-WASP , used to get a lot af comment about the colour scheme, sadly the new owners repainted her , ill try and find a pic of her as she was .
Nice to fly , although parts were a bit of a pain at that time, although found very reliable, never noticed any lack of tail rotor authority,

worked well on mogas (fuel injected) :ok:

Running a Brantly on Mogas? Is it legal? I thought it wasn't cleared .

Heli ! So ive been told:hmm:

First IAI selects the Alouette III as the basis of its NRUAV, now the Chinese use the Brantly B-2 as the basis of their V750 VUAS. :ooh:

http://i.imgur.com/LOhOQUW.jpg
(Image © Aviation Week)

Never a dull moment in this business!

I/C

I just wish they would sort out the spares certification . Mine has been grounded since November because I can't get an EASA ticket for either an overhauled or new sprag clutch. Brantly no longer have US office so can't get FAA part signed off for EASA either .Now looking at Permit to Fly route.

Come back Wally Holmes or Sid Coles - all is forgiven ;)

Auto Rotation and Smooth Bladesw

I used to play bridge with Frank Erickson Brantley's original test pilot. Frank said, "he never had any problem at all with auto rotations, but he had so may hours flying the B2 chained to the ground on a very short leash he really knew how it felt when it ran out gas close to the ground. To overcome the problem less experienced pilots had getting into auto-rotation 3 5 pound steel weights were added to the tip of each blade.

Ir takes an experienced mechanic 20 to 40 hours to get those 3 blades running smooth the first time. Each blade can be moved forward and back to adjust how it tracks the other blades. There is also a hole in the end of each of leading edge blade spar that Woods Metal can be put in or removed from to get the final blade balance. Getting the steel screws out of an old spar to rebuild the blade take an EDM machine as the steel screw in almost every one has seized to the aluminum treads in the spar.

Gordon
An old machinist for N. O. Brantley and Mike Hynes.