Brantly
 

Has anyone performed autorotations in the Brantly helicopter, and is able to comment on the autorotation in respect to; hover time, rate of descent, flare, etc.?

The inner portion of a helicopter's rotor disk 'drives' the outer portion during autorotations, and the Brantly has a very unique inner portion.
____________

Reprint of Brantly rotor specifications;

"The most outstanding feature of the Model B-2 is the three-bladed all metal main rotor which employs two sets of flapping hinges with lag hinges which are coincident with the outboard flapping hinges at approximately 40% of the blade radius. The inboard blade has a symmetrical section with a 29% thickness ratio and an effective chord of 8.84 inches. It is set at an angle of incidence which is 4 degrees greater than the outboard blade which has a modified NACA 0012 section with an 8 inch chord."

"This method of construction is designed to provide complete freedom of motion of the outboard blade sections which experience practically all of the aerodynamic forces of lift and drag."

As a tiny thread to the main question.
In a photograph that I once saw.
Keith Moon the legendary drummer with The Who; was pictured in his garden, with trappings of success: Rolls Royce, and a Brantly.
So did he fly or does the pilot continue to fly?
Happy Christmas everyone.

Capn N,

From my memories, Kieth Moon(or Moon the Lune) flew every day, on what, we can only guess? but most of the time it wasn't powered by 100LL, more the fume's! ;) :D

Keith Moon's successor as Who drummer, Kenny Jones (previously of The Faces) was a helicopter pilot who at one time shared a Bell 47 with the singer David Essex. Both learned to fly with Alan Mann at Fairoaks, and I believe both have since allowed their licences to lapse.

… but to answer the question, the new Brantly B2B was flight-tested for Pilot magazine in the UK by Derek Jones in March 1999. He wrote: “Entering autorotation is no problem as you just lower the lever and keep straight with about half right pedal. The throttle correlation split the needles and there was only a small nose-down pitch. Rate of descent stabilised at a reasonable 1,600 fpm at 55 mph, with the rotor rpm at 460. The maximum allowed is 472. Rolling into moderate turns resulted in a slow rise in rpm, without any collective lever correction required to stay within the limit. It is recommended that the engine is maintained at 2,000 rpm during these manoeuvres, to avoid embarrassing silences.
“The rotor inertia on the Brantly is somewhat greater than that of the Robinson R22, and therefore gives a bigger margin for error during engine-off landings. However, you do have to roll off the throttle as the lever is raised for the touchdown, to prevent the engine re-engaging the freewheel. For practises, it is recommended to run onto the ground at 15 – 20 mph on smooth surfaces, following a flare initiated at 50 – 60 feet. The well-sprung undercarriage is forgiving of errors, although the closeness of the blades to the tailcone would concentrate the mind in the event of a tail-down arrival. Powered go-rounds just require raising the collective to join the needles and co-ordinating the throttle slightly to prevent overspeeding, then settling the speed again at 60 mph for the climb. A happy by-product of the fuel injected engine is not having to remember the carb heat at low power settings.”

Hope this helps. Incidentally, it's not the inner portion of the blade that drives the outer during autorotation. Only the centre section provides an autorotative force.

t'aint natural

Thanks for the reprint of autorotation in the Brantly, and your correction of my error.

The inquiry has to do with autorotation using a pair of hypothetical rotors where the airfoil does not start until about 30% of radius, also, most of the lift is on the advancing blades (ABC) whereas the stall region has been shifted toward the retreating blades during forward flight. The unusual configuration of the Brantly was therefor of interest and it appears that it functions very well. Thanks.

Brantly
 

Can anyone supply some information about the Brantly helicopter. I have read only good things about them yet they are not very common in the UK.

Has anybody flown one and are there any instuctors out there still current on one, any information would be greatly appreciated.

Amazon man,

There was a new one at HAI Heli-Expo in Orlando; I really liked the look of them and I chatted to some people from the company who are making them out there; yes, they're still being made. He said there are some around in the UK, and gave me the names and addresses of a few people. I'm in the US right now, but going back to the UK next Wednesday; I'll look them up for you, unless you've had some better source of info by then. If I forget, e-mail me and remind me!

Amazon man'

You may find some things of interest here. http://www.brantly.com/

Elfan ap Rees, who is a moving force behind the Helicopter Museum at Weston Super Mare, has a Brantly. If you call the museum I'm sure they'll put you in touch.

Amazon Man,

There is an insructor based at Liverpool Airport( the Civil Flying Side) but not sure who he works for( at least there was 4 months ago, I spoke with him, about the odd looking rotors on the Brantly):)

Brantly B2B?
 

Any one out there flown these things? any sort of a pilot report/impresions after flying one would be good to hear.
would they be suitable for something like aerial mustering??

Hi Wizard,

My best mate owns two of these things, we are based in the UK.
See this Months Pilot mag which has a great article on the B2B (and my mate). If you want to talk over any aspects, please send me a pm via email.

Happy:D

I bought a B-2B last year. I always thought they were too ugly and loud, but they fly like a dream. They handle very nice, visibility is great, and they are quite smooth, with the unique blade design that they have. Three other guys in my local area also have Brantlys and we fly them quite often.

thanx guys, do they have any funnies about them, Eg, maintanance wise.......... nothing stupid like main rotor TBO of 800hrs or super expensive AD's?

I have yet to find any issues with components or maintenance that I'm unhappy with. All component times are high. It's a very reliable ship.

....just don't attempt a passenger change while the rotors are turning.

The early James Bond movies used them, but only for the explosions!

"....just don't attempt a passenger change while the rotors are turning."

Sounds a little like the Helicycle. In the earlier model, the rotor was engaged by the pilot standing outside the craft. One hand was on the collective and the other was on an engagement lever located behind the cabin. He said that when walking around the craft, always have the knuckles of one hand dragging on the ground. :O
_____________

Remainder of post removed and relocated on a new thread ~ Turbine Helicycle.

B2B Flight Review...
 

Greetings,

This weekend, I drove down to Washington, North Carolina to fly the Brantly B2B for a few hours. I took a "Brantly B2B Introductory Course" at East Carolina Helicopters that was geared toward the certificated helicopter pilot.

For those of you interested, here is my trip report and some opinions I have about this helicopter. As a PPL(H) with mostly R22 time and a few hours on the B47, my experience is very limited. Nevertheless, I have to say that there are some dramatic differences in the B2B that are pretty interesting.

First, the construction of the B2B seems overdone when compared to other ships (even the B47). This ship has a LOT of heavy steel throughout the construction, but that heavy construction provided a very smooth ride and gave me a feeling of improved safety. The B2B has a high inertia main rotor system. In fact, the rotor head alone is four times the weight of the R22 rotor head.

The short rigid mast, fully articulated, eliminates any chance of mast bumping. Furthermore, zero G and negative G do not create an issue or challenge as they do in the Robbie because of the weird rotor design. Unlike other articulated helicopters, the unique multi-articulated main rotor makes ground resonance impossible because of the lead-lag found on the outboard blades (there are three main inboard blades and three smaller outboard blades).

Since this ship is so rugged in construction, I could barely feel any shudder during ETL at all. I expected the performance to be significantly lacking from a 4-cylinder piston engine with all that weight, but I was pleasantly surprised. Once airborne and in ETL, the B2B had a lot of performance and more power than I could use (even with almost 600 pounds). In fact, I found it a little TOO easy get forward air speed... very slick, aerodynamically.

The glide during autorotation was what impressed me the most. No need to do anything with the collective all the way down (even in turning auto's). Obviously, this was smoother than an R22 auto, but it was even smoother than the B47 auto! I couldn't attribute the S-L-O-W and E-A-S-Y decent to any kind of thermal since the wind sock was flat and it was cool from the earlier rain that morning. Unlike the Robbie, I even had time to make radio calls and enjoy the ride during the B2B autorotation.

During OGE setting with power exercises at 2000 MSL, the Brantly B2B barely shuddered to indicate we weren't getting enough new air through the blades. No real yaw or wild pitch changes - and vibrations seemed almost "hushed." Recovery took less effort with barely any forward cyclic at all. A second setting with power exercise to an autorotation was conducted with similar glide results as before... felt like we were doing an auto through layers of cotton balls!

Throttle management was much easier in the B2B than the B47, but I really don't have enough time in the Bell to give fair comparison. On the ground, once you brought throttle to 20", all I really had to do was stiffen my grip on the throttle during the rest of the flight with minor adjustments required for altitude changes. Slightly leading the throttle with collective seemed natural after a couple of hours.

The Kevlar centrifugal clutch is automatic, which allowed us to change passengers without shutting down (requires quick throttle chop and application of rotor brake). This was a nice feature, because you can safely change passengers without concern of any kind of blade strike. Also, the electronic trim was very easy to use during flight.

In contrast, I found the hover power requirements for the B2B a little excessive unless we were into the wind. This adversely affected our ability to initiate a maximum performance takeoff. Since we were at sea level, this was definitely disappointing. When fully loaded, it took almost all 28" of MAP for this fuel injected machine to reach ETL. Fortunately, it only takes a second to quickly gain altitude in forward flight - and then power requirements were minimal. Once we were above 40 MPH, the sleek aerodynamic design made this ship cut through the air with much more ease.

Furthermore, I found the left pedal tail rotor authority lacking. It took a great deal of left pedal to keep stable, which made me very conscious of the wind direction at all times. This is probably because the anti-torque rotors are on the right hand side, instead of left. These blades had a HEAVY spar with aluminum outer construction. The R22 anti-torque blades are of better design and provide much more tail rotor authority.

Since the B2B has oleo struts, landing was definitely a different experience. You feel the skids “touch,” but since you are on hydraulic struts you aren’t all the way down, yet. You have to continue your decent with a stable attitude and land “though the deck” before you are completely on the ground. After a little practice, I found this cushion will almost guide you in the last few inches if you get a little more light handed with the cyclic. It will definitely make slope landings much easier!

The staff at East Carolina Helicopters http://www.eastcarolinahelicopters.com was extremely knowledgeable. The ground instruction was never boring, and the owner used to be an engineer for Brantly many years ago. They had retired parts that you could bang on without worry, which was very useful during ground instruction. It helped with the visualization, and was reminiscent of the RHC Factory Course. The CFI had about 900 R22 hours and several hundred B2B hours, so he did a great job of transition training. I had so much fun; I stayed long enough to do a little night flying in the B2B.

Finally, I would summarize my experience with the Brantly B2B as very positive, and I look forward to flying her again. There are pros and cons to every ship, and I hope I was able to express both in an amicable manner.

R2

Thanks for the interesting post, RD.
I wonder how many rotorheads have flown one?
I guess not many.

Heliport

Great Post, RD, Thanks for sharing

Had pleasure of flying B2A an owning/flying B2B few years ago

Agree wholeheartedly with all your observations about a real fun flying machine

A few of my thoughts.

Initially, Mr Brantly was a great engineer in his era, but compared to present day technology, the ship is kinda Jurrasic Park.
I say this while still wishing the latest efforts to produce again success.

The vertically mounted Franklin rarely makes it to 1000 hrs for a *very* expensive overhaul/replacement...less than 500 is very common

Compared to RHC components ease of maintenance and component accessability, the B2 is particularly demanding..

I offer these somewhat negative observations only to keep our euphoria of a magnificently behaving classic flying experience in realistic perspective

On a very positive note, Trade-A-Plane often has some pristine looking, flying B2s in the 35-50G price range

Finally, the reason I sold mine, was I sincerely think in modern environments, the ship is a 'be-heading' waiting to happen

If Frank R's statistics are sobering about people losing arguments and human components with his tail rotors....., just imagine how many people would not remember how low those Brantly (folding) blades really are

I had even fashioned a mini pinnacle pad at my farm heliport to make blades/ground clearance greater than average human head during loading/egressing

RD...I still have lotsa written manuals, etc, and phones for couple of *very* helpful/ knowledgeable Brantly lovers that made my brief ownership a pleasure.

Glad to share...E-M me here or R-22


Pat G
US Army ORWAC Class 65-10
N45PG Heliport 6NJ2

What is a 'vertically mounted Franklin?' J

Franklin is the name of the company that made the engine. The vertical bit refers to the fact that the crankshaft is in a vertical attitude with respect to the fuselage as opposed the aft-facing horizontal mounting used in the R22/R44.

Hope this helps
CRAN:cool:

Pat, it's too bad they don't have the five seat version in production anymore. However, I think there is one in flying condition somewhere (saw it in a recent video). I like the Brantly as a classic flyer, but if they replaced some items with new composite materials, improved airfoil shapes, and made some minor changes in other areas - the B2B could probably out perform most of the other pistons (my opinion). The safety stastistics in the B2B are amazing (something like 2 fatal accidents in 40+ years), but there aren't that many of them. I'd love to get my paws on some flight manuals and get a few other contacts, thanks for the offer.

RD

There was a 305 flying near Oklahoma City. The owner was kind of a Professor Emeritus (Dean of all Brantly Lovers)

He worked for Factory (Original, not Texas Repo) from day one thru day demise, and has owned at least 3 ships at all times . He just loved extolling its virtues to spell-bound listeners like me, hanging on his every (heavily laden Okie accented) word of wisdom.

Another very helpful Guru/owner is in Alabama, and another at a Residentil airpark, 25 mi So of Denver


Please do E-Mail me ..glad to share names an addresses off Forum, and anything else I have squirrelled away

B2B Picture...
 

For those of you wondering what I meant about inboard and outboard blades, take a close look at this photo and you'll see what I mean. Since most lift occurs on the outer portion of the blades, the B2B was designed with flapping and lead/lag hinges that bisect the larger inboard portion from the smaller outboard portion. In addition to the short mast, this seems to be the reason why vibrations are absorbed so much.


http://rotorhead.photosite.com/~phot...5022268000.jpghttp://www.brantly.info/RDRickster_animated1.GIF

http://www.brantly.com/B2B_pic32.jpg

***edited to add photos and animation***

B2b Tre
 

Please stifle giggles of hysteria but I have just acquired a share in a Brantly B2B. Great idea for cheap flying I thought and believed that one of my co share owners would be able to gain himself the right to examine me on it.

Unfortunately the paper chase around the CAA has gone full circle and it now looks as if that route is not going to work.

I am told by the CAA that there isnt anyone on the register with a current TRE so it looks as if my investment will go to waste and for now I will have to return to the R22 I learnt on or find something more common.

Anyone any ideas on how I might get round this?. Anyone with experience of the B2B who can shed any light on how I might get an initial rating on type?.

Please respond to [email protected] or mobile 07802 611647

Although I know very little about the B2B, this sort of problem does happen from time to time. My experience has been that generally the CAA are fairly flexible. JAR FCL allows them to give anyone suitable a temporary TRE authorisation. So it is possible to go to the USA or wherever and get checked out/tested by someone who is fairly obviously equivalent to a TRE in the other country.

The probem these days, of course, is that this needs to be repeated for LPCs. It therefore makes sense if the person who goes and gets the special "test" will or can be authorised as a TRE in the UK subsequently.

Don't forget to try other JAR FCL countries for an existing B2B TRE.

No giggles from me...
 

formationfoto,

I've flown the B2B for a few hours, both day and night... just long enough to appreciate this ship. It is a real pleasure to fly. You will find a full review of that experience posted here (click link).

In the U.K., this is the only designated examiner I know of:

Mr Jon Lane
Heliflight (UK) Ltd
Gloucestershire Airport,
SE 36
Staverton
GL51 6SR
Tel 01452 714555
Fax01452 714666
[email protected]

There is also a forum for Brantly drivers (click here). I'm sure someone can help you out, as many of the Brantly Drivers are from Europe or the U.K. In the U.S., one of those folks had their DFE get a waiver from the FAA so he could perform the checkride. I'm sure this has come up before, and you could probably do the same.

Cheers!

ff:

Try Elfan ap Rees at the Helicopter Museum, Weston super Mare - laziness stops me getting the phone number off the web site :O

He flies a Brantly and may be able to point you in the right direction.

One more thing...
 

Maintenance WILL be an issue for the B2B (the price you pay for one of the smoothest helicopters flying). Here's the U.K. Brantly Guru for maintenance...

S.N COLE AVIATION
West Batsworthy Farm
Rackenford
Tiverton
Exeter
EX16 8EG

Telephone: 44 (0) 1884 881205
Fax: 44 (0) 1884 881205

Contact: Jon Souch
[email protected]

Jon has a large stock of B-2B parts and a few 305 parts. They have parts from the smallest of bushings to main transmissions, 90' box's, intermediate box's, brand new upper & lower bubbles, even spray booms. They have been involved in the maintenance of the B-2B's since 1976.

RDR

Thanks

Have been trying Jon Lane but not managed to contact him yet. At least this 'classic' is still being produced so parts should be slightly easier than some but good to know there is a UK based expert around.

Mr Selfish,

Granted, many of the 1960's era ships are a bit battered; however, the newly produced B2B used a Kevlar clutch, thumb controlled trim control, and replaces old instruments with new technology. Based on your comments, it seems unlikely that you have flown a late generation B2B.

As far as entry/egress is concerned, you can stop the blades and keep the engine running in less than 60 seconds. Since most pilots will completely shut down to put in their PAX, this is a real benefit. Also, I have to differ with you about the effectiveness of the rotor system. Since most lift occurs on the outer portion of the blades, it is a very effective system and completely eliminates the chances of ground resonance, air resonance, and mast bumping.

I will say that the TR effectiveness of the B2B is pretty weak compared to almost any other helicopter, but the flying characteristics more than make up for it past ETL. In fact, I'll bet you $20 you won't even be able to feel the transition through ETL in a well tracked and balanced Brantly (no shudder at all - not even a slight vibration). Compared to the R22, B47, and 280FX I've flown, the B2B has the hands down best autorotative glide and smoothest decent I've ever experienced.

Ugly? Yep... it is kinda ugly, but so is the Schweitzer in my opinion. I don't know why, the B47 seems to be the most "attractive" small helicopter out there. Hey, between your 2 cents and my 2 cents, maybe we can afford to buy a stick of chewing gum!

R2

Mr Selfish,

Nice, balanced viewpoint:ok: You're not an aviation journalist are you?

Why would you need to get in and out of a piston helicopter when the blades are turning? Thats for passengers only, and as a pilot, I dont care what they do!:E

I think the B2B is sweet, much nicer than ANY turbine.....

There, thats balanced!

http://www.brantly.com/B2B_pic073.gif

"My, look at that slick machine. I wonder who cares to own up to that beauty" :yuk:

Better than an R22, I suppose, though, which bit...I haven't quite worked out...yet.

Hey TC,

What a lurvely frosty day, the Skids are what are better, nice and springy,

When I was in my learning days and flying in and out of EGGP, there was a B2B parked in the GA compound, with Rust sprouting from the rotor arms, the bitover the bubble that don' lift anything, just spins the outersectionof the blades, very odd Heli.

I seem to remember there is/or was a B2B Fi at one establishment there:\

For training (conversions) and LPC's - Mike Smith at Heliair is still current.:ok:

Brantly owner Nr Beccles.
 

Just a friendly suggestion to anyone who knows of this chap.

Local people are becoming increasingly irriated at the noise of this notoriously noisy helo that seems to regurlarly spend it's time blatting in circles again and again around the local area particurlarly at weekends.

Perhaps spreading the noise around the county, as opposed to the parish might be a bit more helpful to the overall image of aviation...

???

You can always look it up (presumably he's flown low enough to get the registration) and have a polite word directly.

G

Perhaps you ought to have a word at North Denes (great Yarmouth) ....there is one hangared there.