Left seat/ right seat?
 

Dear rotorheads,
please correct me if I am wrong,
(I fly fixed wings so I don't know too much about helicopters and I feel really stupid asking this),
I have seen that most of the time in a helicopter the PIC/CPT is flying the right seat, and if there is only one pilot in the helicopter, most of the time he/she sits at the right side.
Is there a (historical) explanation for this seating arrangement?
Because in fixed wings the PIC/CPT usually sits left and the SIC/FO sits right?
Why is it the other way around in a helicopter?
Or am I just having early symptoms of dementia?
BC

BC,
Very historical, going back to the Sikorsky R-4 during WW2. First two seat helicopter. It only had one collective (the thingy on the left of the seat that makes the world get smaller if you pull up on it) it was in the middle between the pilots.

Most of the new trainees flew from the right side as the old hands all took the left. In time there were more "right seat pilots" than lefties so things got standardized that way.
In fact in those days there were "right seat" pilots and "left seat" pilots. The difference was so great because to change ment completely changing your hand positions, not as easy to do in a helicopter as in an airplane. I've tried it in a Bell 206 flying in the left seat using my right hand for the collective left on the cyclic. Nearly crashed many times while trying to hover. No dought you can learn it but it really messes with your mind.

Also the practical reason is, in the right seat you have your left hand fee to tune radios, etc. (You can friction the collective and let it go) In a helicopter, other than one with SASS or AP, you cannot let go of the cyclic in your right hand. Helicopter wants to flop over and kill you if you do. In fact if you must let it go, fold a map etc you learn to hold the cyclic between your knees and rock your ass around in the seat to keep the dirty side down. Great way to scratch an itchy ass at the same time.

Gets interesting in alot of the small, Bell 47 Hughes 300 and 500, helicopters as the pilot is on the left side, to make more room for pax on the bench beside him, you are constantly changing hands in cruise to hold the cyclic with your left hand to use your right to tune radios, adjust the carb heat, or cabin heat. Takes a little time to get used to the change of hands. Also takes time to learn to get all the bits done before you are on final because there is in addition to the "landing decision" point a "no hands change now" decision point.

So if you want an adventure go take a helicopter lesson some time, its the greatest flying machine of all. You will say its "impossible to fly" when you start but in time you catch on. All the airplane pilots I've given joy rides to end up dropping out of the airplane game to master the slingerwinger full time.
I'm still mastering the beast after 14000 hours, thought I knew it all when I had 10000. I've had 4000 more to teach me I had more to learn.

Keep your turns up, lest the earth arise to smite you.

Magumba,
Thank you very much for your explanation.

About the helicopterlesson, you are right.
I went on a joyride a while ago with one of the pilots of a charter company in Northern NJ, and I immediately realised that flying helicopters might be more fun than flying a fixed wing. Ever since that flight, I have promised myself that as soon as I have payed of my studyloans, I will learn to fly a helicopter. You never know, I might make a careerchange in the future.
For now I'll keep buzzing around in a Fokker 50. Not too bad of a flyingmachine either.

Thanks again,
BC

BC,
I think the Fokker is a great machine. Best of luck with it and the helicopters.
Keep'm flying.

Call me sad if you wish, but while we are on the subject, why is it when you see a helicopter in an American made film, the pilot is usually in the left seat? It can't be 'cos they're just American, or can it??

Breaking Clouds - there was a similar thread in Aircrew Notices (Misc) last month which throws up some more ideas on this subject for you. Try
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/For...ML/000120.html

------------------
Mind The Gap

To Mighty Gem.
Its only a film and maybe the person who is really flying is in the Right seat.
Just an idea.

Thanks Speechless Two,
Did not notice that thread before.
Doesn't look like everybody agrees though on the reason why, but it does give me some ideas.
I think the Sikorsky-story sounds very plausible.

BC

Why Do You Fly From the Right Hand Seat?
 

A fellow rotorhead asked me this on chat the other night. I couldn't remember, though I thought I'd read it somewhere. But I can't find the answer anywhere. Is it a weight and balance thing (when flying solo)? Or is it just convention? Is it the same in all helicopters?

Hope you don't mind me asking such a basic question but I'd really like to know.

Hi. Saves you having to change hands on the cyclic when you want to twiddle the radios etc.

Also 'cos of tail rotor coupling tends to hover left skid low so better to have solo pilot on right.

Got a feeling thought that some (Enstrom ?) do have solo pilot on the left.

[ 18 August 2001: Message edited by: Grainger ]

Tail rotor coupling depends on the direction of rotation!

The truth is that we drive on the right in the air so we have to sit on the right... ;)

What someone told me Eons ago, is that the captain sits on the right, so as to avoid the inconvenience of having to climb over the collective, getting in and out...

You may want to read earlier thoughts on this
http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimat...&f=11&t=000163
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/For...ML/000120.html

I thought it was because the captain is always right :p

Someone did sort of explain on the earlier threads.

It's a no-brainer.

You have to keep weight and BALANCE within the allowable range.

When single-pilot in a teeny chopper such as a Robbie (US counter-clockwise rotation) you are required to sit in on the right to stay in balance.

If the rotor goes the other way (clockwise, European) then you will probably have to sit on the left when alone in order to stay balanced.

D'oh.

Hi Whirly
I always reckoned it was down to the collective myself, much easier when on your tod to muck about with the twiddly bits with your left hand while keeping right hand firmly on the cyclic.
'Most' helicopters hover left skid low BUT not the french ones! As such I'd poo poo that theory! (Incoming? <--- grabs hard hat & body armour!)
It also nice to be different from 'plank' pilots, who only truely love love rotary pilots when their plank has gone swimming! :D
The 'real' reason? Well if it ain't the collective I'm as keen to hear it as you Whirls!

Edited because I'm a plonker. Thanks for pointing that out by the way!!!
Edited again 'cos I'm still a plonker.

[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: Roofus ]

[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: Roofus ]

ROOFUS
As an ATPL(H) holder with many types under your belt, why do you fly with your 'Right' hand on the 'Collective'???

Your Quote......
"I always reckoned it was down to the collective myself, much easier when on your tod to muck about with the twiddly bits while keeping right hand firmly on the collective."


Perhaps you were just tired from the strain of cack handed flying.

On the Bell 47 model the pilot sat on the right. On the 47-J series he sat in the middle. On the Sikorsky S-51 the pilot sat in the middle but on the S-55 and S-58 series the pilot sat on the right to allow him to monitor ingress and egress of the passengers and to maintain visual contact when using the hoist which was on the right side. To be different the S-51 mounted the hoist on the left side. I believe it was the same as the Bell models got bigger. Initially there was only one door and the hoist was on the right side.

Apologies if the informnation is already out there on this one, but from my memory (distant) early helicopters had a single collective lever in the centre and two cyclics. The left seat pilot had to fly with his right hand on the collective and left hand on the cyclic. As most(?) pilots were/are predominantly right handed, it was easier and probably safer to have the captain/solo pilot in the right seat. Having flown fixed wing as well and got used to flying from the left seat with right hand on the throttles and left on the stick, I've always wondered whether it would be easy to fly this way round in the hover. Not tried it but I'm sure someneo out there has!

The answer is to teach pilots to be ambidextrous. And put the captain in the middle at the front. So he gets it from both sides when the s--t hits the fan.
Not disimiliar from now: dammed if you do dammed if you dont.
So who wants to be midway in the tree of managerial process. Kicked by the pax and moaned at by the boss

What about H500? That's Left hand drive!!

I was just about to say the 500 is a LH drive. The H300 (269C) is also LHD as well as the old S55 (correct me if wrong...) On the S76 CHC Australia have the Captain on the LHS, so thats one theory out the door...
Heres a story about a H500 driver in NZ.
I read this is the crash comics a couple of years ago. He was exiting a H500 with gumboots and raincoat on. As he climbed over the collective he slipped and the raincoat caught the throttle and wound it full open. He landed on his mush and the machine took to flight. Apparently he considered jumping back in and then common sense took over and he dove behind some handy fuel drums (!)
The machine translated and wrote itself off in a nearby paddock....Sad but true.
One good reason to sit on the right.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And there I was, thinking I was asking a very simple question, with a straightforward answer that almost everyone knew except me. :confused:

Here's another old wive's tale.
Aeroplane standard circuit: Left Hand. F/W and Helos flying together at same airfield, easier to separate the circuits into LH for F/W and RH for helos. Therefore easier for helo pilot to fly the circuit from RH seat. Then just became a habit......

If memory serves, the reason for P1 position being on the left on 'some' 500's is that you can seat three in the front row. Very uncomfortable for the centre occupant if the Captains collective is there.

I was always told it was due to "convention" and that in the early flights by Igor Sikorsky that he moved his seating position to get the C of G right and that he ended up on the right hand side in the VS300 (or whatever it was called)

just my useless contribution, please ignore it !

Lots of interesting responses...prob Nick Lappos would have a REAL answer...I personally think that is is just a convenient convention so as to allow the Captain of the A/C the ability to keep his hand on the cyclic at all times. As for the CHC rescue S76 in Oz the commander of the 'rescue' sits in the LH seat because the A/C command pilot is (still) sitting in the RHS seat. The Hu500 civillian version certainly seats the pilot on the LHS...however the OH6 (loach) seated the driver on the RHS... in the end I guess it really depend on the engineers who get the suckers certified! .....may the conjecture contine ... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If Memory serves, the 500 usually has the P1 seat on the left because it can be fitted with three seats in the front row. This can be a bit unpleasant for the occupant of the centre seat if the collective for the right hand seat is not removed first!

Oops, got a call as I sent the first reply, didn't think it had gone out.

In reality, it all boils down to what the individual manufacturer felt was the best configuration for the design. The ability to turn lose of the collective is (was) an important consideration in some designs however, ignored in others (as pointed out in earlier posts). Insofar as weight and balance, again, important considerations in some designs, ignored in others and, changed by STC and or field modifications in quite a few. (i.e., it is easier to perform external load ops from the left seat - better view, not leaning away from the collective, etc. Therefore, numerous operators have converted numerous aircraft models to accomodate left seat operations for various mission requirements - BH206, BH212/ 412, BH214, AS315, 316/ 319, on and on. The 47 had several variations that flew from left seat(most G models), right seat (some OH13), center (J models) In fact, the J model pilots sat in front of the passengers all by him/ herself. Hillers were the same with three configurations. Sikorsky bounced around with theirs as well to a certain extent as did Hughes (MD). Hope this muddies the water some more.

B. Loser

Hi Whirly

For my two cents worth, I asked an instructor some time back if I could fly from the left just to see what it was like. He rightly said that the important thing was not to get hung up on which side you flew from, as some are south paws and some aren't. The case of the 500 incidently is that in civil configuration, the captain is on the left, but in the mil' layout they don't need the third seat in the front (cos' they arent paying for it, and seat cost doesn't mean much? ) and the captain is on the right. I will wait to be corrected on that.

:)

CB & spinwing your both sort of right.
For SAR ops in the autohover 76's the 'rescue' commander sits in the LHS mainly due to the orientation of all the twiddly bits and the FMS which are essential to the autohover sequence and conduct of the mission. The 'rescue' commander is also the aircraft captain the pilot occupying the RHS is normally a co-pilot.

Somebody mentioned the Enstrom earlier on. This is the same as the Hughes 500 & 300 in that it can have three pax across the front.

Isn't it because it gives you better vision when overtaking!!

Regarding the Hughes 500 : when it was being put into Civvie production, it was in competition with the B206. They wanted the same number of seats (5). As there was no room in the back for 3 people, they had to somehow put 3 in the front, and the only way that was possible was to put the P1 collective on the left hand side of the aircraft. Having said that, in the flight manual it says under typical usage "High density personnel transport (up to 7)" Now THAT I would like to see! Are we talking SWAT team here??

Yep, in the Enstrom the pilot sits on the left, two pax up front, and they can all die together. What a horrible aircraft. Flies like a washing machine.

I've flown on left, right, and center (center in the Bell 47 J as someone noted). Prefer the right, since I can reach for radios with my left hand. If I'm on the left, I have to take my left hand off the collective, put it on the cyclic, (wobble, wobble) and then use my right hand on the radios. Of course, economically it is a bit discouraging since, for example, the JetRanger looks to have enough room for three total up front (a la 500 style) but you'd need to shift the pilot to the left.

What about the US Military (possibly others), the aircraft commander sat in the left seat in Hueys, the FNG in the right. Can anyone add to this? I always figured it put the senior pilot on the correct side to have a better view of the earth as it rushed up to meet all occupants when it suddenly became very quiet in the engine compartment! Worked really well!

Fly safe, from the old aviator (not the bold one)

As an ex-SAR pilot flying basic Whirlwind HAR 10 (S-55) a thousand years ago, we were taught that the elementary design of early helicopters led to a hover which was left wheel low because of tail rotor roll ( which conteracts tail-rotor drift)- all this because of the direction of rotation of the main rotor on early helicopters.
To counteract this unbalance, the winch (and the single pilot), were seated on the right as opposed to the left on fixed-wing aircraft to restore a wings -level situation.
Subsequently, the world's operators have continued to feed of this situation and now common practice decides that the captain sits on the right.

Simple really.

The British Army's Army Air Corps switched over to having the Aircraft Captain in the LHS towards the end of the 80's. It worked on the theory that this let concentrate more on fighting the battle rather than flying the aircraft.