Helicopters in movies: aerial filming techniques
 

Dear Moderators and all

I wonder if it's possible to have a thread similar along the lines to the NOstalgia thread on not just helicopters in the movies (as there is one already) but also combined with aerial filming techniques, Tyler mounts, types of HD systems etc etc experiences of crews doing shoots following say Isle of Man races, Formula 1, Le Mans etc etc

Many thanks
Chopper2004

Sounds like a good idea. Maybe somebody could get Marc Wolff to drop by and share some stories about flying in the Bond movies and other film work.

Marc Wolff - Specialist Film Pilot, Aerial Unit Director / Coordinator

500 Fan.

Chopper

I hesitated to post this earlier as it's such a popular site when it comes to rotorcraft in movies but .. on the off-chance you've not stumbled upon it then check-out rotaryaction.com

Rgds

Sav

There's a few other movie pilot names I'd love to hear from as well. I hope they are still with us: Karl A. Wickman, Thomas H. Friedkin and Ross Reynolds.

They all have quite a number of film credits to their names between them. Anyone know them?

I know some other famous film pilot:



I know, but I was young and in need of money :E

Hi Savoia

Yep I know that website and at times have had to correct some of the credits as either
someone got the wrong helo or the wrong operator!

And guys, many thanks for your feedback,

Cheers

Spy Game 2001
 

500 Fan

I had a brochure from Flying Pictures several years ago :) Also a great source of interest is the extras on the Robert Redford / Brad Pitt motion picture Spy Game whereby they do an interview with Marc Wolff on set in Morocco where they used a few Hueys, a Mil-2 Hoplite, AS350 B3 for aerial filming. Interesting enough the film had an few historical factual errors, one of which came out in the interview withTony Scott during the aerial sequences. He said that the Viet Cong didnt have any helos at all but they decided to throw in the Hoplite during the assasination sequence. However the North Vietnamese Air Force did have a Mil-4 according to my Aircraft of the Vietnam Handbook .

Plus the dates were mixed up as at the beginning the screen shot which depicted Hong Kong, said Hong Kong, China yet the film was set in 1991 6 years before the handover. I could understand if the film was set in 2001.

Also again with dates, it said Da Nang firebase April 1975, Da Nang air base had long gone by 1975 for sure.

Also the Huey used in the movie was not the standard army UH-1D/H as the tail rotor was located on the starboard side of the tail as in Super Huey / USAF HH-1H version.

Beyond that its a good movie.

Just a few points for the spotters, the two 'Hueys' used in Spy Game were Bell 205 A1's D-HOOK and D-HAFL (hence the tail rotor on the other side). The sequences were filmed in various locations in the Czech Republic and Slovakia in the Tatra mountains and filmed almost in conjunction wit Behind Enemy Lines which also used a Spanish Bell 412. IIRC the filming in Morocco was for Blackhawk Down. :ok:

Cheers CyclicRick for the info on the pair of German Hueys, much appreciated

Though looking at the special features of Spy Game, the Hueys were filmed in the Moroccan brush :) as Marc was running around co-ordinating things in the desert area :)

The Morocco countryside especially where theres lots of trees and a river flowing through was meant to simulate the Vietnamese countryside.

Ah Black Hawk down, a few friends of mine who former US Army Aviators told me that Hollywood footed the transportation costs and so forth and special arrangements with the Moroccan Ministry of Defence when I asked, how did Hollywood managed to persuade the DoD and Dept of Army to send the elite and at times secretive Nightstalkers to Morocco for filming. I then thought about the security issues of protecting the MH-60L and MH-6 over there.

Morocco as well as Israel, for filming action movies set in the Middle East as said with Jewel of the Nile, Rules of Engagement (for which the Royal Moroccan Air Force lent a few CH-47 to simulate the USMC CH-46E that lifted off the fictional named USS Wake Island LHA for the land sequence of the film).

Cheers

Tyler Mounts and WESCAM
 

Apart from Tyler are there any other popular makes of camera mounts used around for aerial filming from aircraft?

Likewise WESCAM gyro stablilised HD turrest used a lot as well?

Cheers

The bits the two German 205's were in were not filmed in Morocco, I can vouch for that as I was flying D-HOOK in the film. The rooftop sequences (Spy Game)were filmed at a small airfield south of Budapest (LHTL) on an old disused tower building. The 'flying off into the sunset' sequences were filmed over a large lake whose name escapes me at the moment. Obviously I can't vouch for any other scenes. :)

Cyclic Rick,.

Ah many thanks for clarifying that :) so you didn't fly the scene where Nathan Muir met Tom Bishop in Vietnam :)

Cheers

No I didn't. We only did the rescue scenes at the end the same as in Behind Enemy Lines. I've done aerial camera work on a few other projects (film and TV) which can be very interesting.

[Moved]

............

Main players in stabilised gimbal land;
These gimbals are large in size and can take a wide range of cameras.
Spacecam, Eclipse (was wescam), Gyron FS, Libra


These gimbals are smaller and come from the factory with a HD camera installed.
Cineflex
Ultramedia HD


The R44 news helicopter comes equipped with a stabilised system with a pre-installed HD camera, the gimbal is made by Robinson (!) under license.

All of the above are positioned outside of the cockpit, either under the nose or on the side of the aircraft and operated by a remote control from the cockpit.

There are other stabilised gimbal systems that are not yet in use worldwide.
Each of the above systems has its pros and cons and offer varying degrees of functionality and stability.

As in the "old days" there is a number of mechanically balanced mounts that can accommodate a wide range of cameras and are installed in the door and operated manually by a camera person.


Mickjoebill

The new system to keep your eye on is the Shot-over. It was created by one of the guys instrumental in making the Cineflex. Think of a Cineflex with interchangeable camera payloads, as well as 3D in the future.

Home | Shotover Camera Systems

It can be loaded up with the Arri Alexa, Red EPIC, or Sony F35. Super stable, small, no Vne limits. Nice demo video on their site.

Heres some pics from various film sorties. Its far more civilised (and warmer!) with the doors on! I've worked with the Cineflex a fair bit and have to say its a winner all round (although it does have some issues). Afraid I dont have any decent pics of one though.

Biggest pointers for the newbies;

- Always try speak to others that have flown the camera systems before;
- Always do your Mass & Balance;
- Try to avoid flying at MAUW. The heavier you are the more limited you will be for the manouvres that might be required of you.

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._7191214_n.jpg
[Wescam sidemounted] - fly it like your stuck in treacle! and avoid AoB> 10degrees

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1083410_n.jpg

[Internals]

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photo...39_1090823.jpg

[Tyler Sidemount]

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photo...83384_6829.jpg

[Wescam Nosemount] - fly it like your stuck in treacle! and avoid AoB> 10degrees. Whole system with rear ballast box (required!) is around 300kgs!

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photo...41106_4318.jpg

[Flir Ultramedia II]

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photo...41751_8904.jpg

[same longranger as above but decalled out for a film shoot for Emmerdale TV series some years back]

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photo...541358_105.jpg

[R44 ENG - lump underneath tailboom is the battery box - for CofG reasons]

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photo...41171_4638.jpg

[R44 ENG Tail Fin lipstick camera on the back - stop working after a few hours due to vibration! - some guy called the CAA on me for this and said I was flying IN snow]

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photo...51076_3832.jpg

[Gyron HD - weighs in about 200kgs and needs a lot of ballast in the boot]

Anyone have pictures of an "Outside Mount" for a 500? Supposedly it worked with a Continental front mount, and enabled the camera person to sit outside the aircraft and manually operate the mount. Read about this in regards to David Butler from 1977. Sounds like a curious system, likely no longer in use due to the remote mount technology being so advanced.

chopper2004
we (meeker-airfilm) make alot of mounts for various helicopters. most are designed to take at the minimum the V14 / UMHD or Starsafire / MX15i class. most are FAA and EASA STC'd
we have mounts for
- AS-350/355: 4 versions, downlink mount, searchlight mount
- EC-120 side mount, nose mount in progress, downlink mount
- EC-130 nose mount, in progress
- EC-135/145 stepmounts
- Bell 206/407 nose mount, downlink mount, aft searchlight mount
- Bell 212/412 nose mount
- Bell UH-1H side mount
- Bell 429 nose mount, aft searchlight mount
- MD500/600 side mount, downlink mount, searchlight mount
- R66 nose mount in progress
- UH60 A/L/M mount
- Mi-17 nose mount
- unimount (vehicle / ship / quad etc
- various isolation devices for all the major gimbal mfgs

Spy Game
It was a Spanish 205. The sequences with this and the Mi-2 were shot in Morocco.

The sequences with HOOK and HAFL were shot in Hungary.

It was Lake Balaton.

Cineflex
 

Here we go:

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/m...lexnoselow.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/m.../cineflex2.jpg

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/m...neflexrear.jpg

With the above thread on slinging cars for television, I was reminded of a Chevy commercial from the 60's. According to the book "From Those Wonderful People Who Brought You Pearl Harbor," (a book about advertising), a Bell 206 was used to sling parts of the stripped down Chevy to the top of a Pinacle in Monument Valley. A mechanic was dropped to assemble the parts and once assembled a pretty, young model, was dropped off. The 206 then landed below to have the camera gear installed and then proceeded to film the commercial.

Once filming was finished, the 206 landed to have the camera gear removed before returning to pick up the mechanic and model. Problem was, the winds had become so strong that landing on the pinacle was out of the question, and by the time the winds had died down, it was too dark.

It was a cold night for the mechanic and the young model.

Night in a Chevy
 

Who knows ... maybe they made something out of it ... :ok:

... or do you happen to be the mechanic ... you sound to have detailed info ;)

No - I am not the mechanic, but I'll bet he had fun trying to stay warm.

Cinestratus
 

This is a new type of side mounted camera mount from a small company in New Zealand that is being tested at the moment that is showing some good results http://www.cinestratus.com

Excuse me for being a little bit off topic, I wonder if any of you gents might know which Gazelle was used in filming Devil's Playground - The Internet Movie Plane Database ? Thanks in advance.

I sincerely wish that someone would lobby the filmmakers and encourage them to subscribe to a 'rotary wing code of ethics'.

The list should include:

1. Use real helicopters when and wherever possible.

2. Never substitute file recordings of helicopter sounds for the real thing.

3. When employing GCI, make an attempt at creating something which reflects reality.

I could go on ..

Savoia,
I second that hear hear :)

For example in the series The Unit, they use Vietnam era Bell 204 /UH-1B/E , for the action sharing albeit with 205.UH-1D/H is acceptable to an extent.

But then again its a matter of costs, and availability of say California ARNG UH-60L/CH-47D or California ANG HH-60G Pave Hawks re 129th, more realistic for special ops aviation however bearing in mind these units do have real world missions moreso nowadays so that would be limited. However as the UH-72A Lakota is en masse with the ARNG, than perhaps a substitute albeit an expensive paint job then, borrow an EC145 from American Eurocopter and deck it out in mil colours or use some form of editing digital paint work over original colour!

In Broken Arrow, use of Bell 204/UH-1B/F as USAF helos was by 2 decades out of sync! :) :ugh:

Though with more availability of MI-8 nowadays in particular the German registered D-HOXE or D-HOXP or D-HOXQ used in James Bond 007 Die Another Day as the North Korean MI-8 was perfect and also the use of a MI-8 decked out in black for Stormbreaker (again wondered if that was one of theb German trio)

Black Hawk Down (as with my earlier posts) was perfect - the DoD permitted the Nightstalkers MH-60L and MH-6 to be used in the filming AND in a desert African country mimicking Somalia in this case Morocco :) It was a great feat considering the very sensitive and secretive nature of the unit and valuable equipment! One could almost argue to do a book to movie of Tornado Down, using the Royal Saudi Air force's co-operation with their Tornados or borrow and RAF Tornados used in that region on detachment! The first time to see the Nightstalkers MH-60 was Tom Clancy's Clear and Present Danger

Strictly speaking, a lot of Hollywood blockbusters such as Transformersn series of movies have used MV-22 (first debut of the V-22 in motion picture) AH-64D,UH-60L, MH-53M, AH-1W, CH-53E, and of course in the first two, laughable using one of the army's test J/UH-1H as Dustoff machines in 'Qatar' :) as no Hueys are used in the front lines let alone the Dustoff on detachment in south west Asia currently!

Nice to see in Transformers: Dark of the Moon, the bell 429 made its debut on screen! :) and can't forget Sikorsky S-92 for Mr Deeds :)

Wings of the Apache / Firebirds was first debut for US Army AH-64A, UH-60A and UH-60A Dustoff, AH-1S, OH-58A Kiowa, and of course the 'Scorpion' atatck helicopter eg MD-500 Defender of which several Latin American nations do use (albeit probably the bad guys :) )

Second film to use US Army AH-64 and UH-60 was Toy Soldiers (Louis Gosset jnr, Denholm Elliott and Andrew Divoff) courtesy of the Virginia ARNG,

However if its a low budget made for TV, thriller, action adventure and cant afford to hire helicopters hour and half at night then, get permission to use film footage of say military helos and slide that in somewhat :)

Beyond that '24' does have co operation of the DoD as they have provided USN SH-60F, and on the fixed wing side, the USMC F/A-18Cs been used.

Also with the last 10-15 years of movies, the AS350 Astar have been used more and more in the police roles in tv series or movies and thats what a fair amount of police/sheriff departments used primarily the LAPD, LASD etc etc

Cheers

No, it was from Hungary. Based in Budaors.

Many thanks for that TRC :)

My pleasure.

Grief! If one was to list the aeronautical fuax pas in films one would clear a forest! I tend to be happy enough so long as they are using a real aircraft with the right sound .. its the 'crummy' CGI that I find irksome.

Zishelix .. couldn't resist posting this for you:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-l.../goldlady1.jpg
Westland Gazelle SA341G G-BAGJ being flown by Marc Wolff in the filming of 'The Golden Lady' (1979). Apparently TRC volunteered to drive the motorcycle in this scene! (Just kidding ;))

Already familiar with this one, but thanks anyway :)

The Golden Lady is actually a 1979 production :)

The Golden Lady (1979) - Full cast and crew

Though looks like one of MW/Flying Pictures work according to credits.

Cheers

Aerial cinematography service... Aerial Film & Cinematography Services, All Star Aerial

007 Skyfall development AW101 makes it debut
 

Just bought the latest Air Forces Monthly this morning to see in the EuropeN news section that one of the development AW101 airframes is being used in the latest Bond flick, Skyfall.

Hunted around on the web et voila

http://theforagingphotographer.files...over-lodge.jpg

Cheers and Happy Easter

Some more scenes of the helicopter shoot for the new James Bond movie :ok:

Why are they using a twin to film it with?:confused:

Two reasons.

It is a congested set.

Some flying is after dark.

Nice to see a snippet of rotary action prior to the movie's release and what is perhaps, for the first time, an Agusta-Westland product in a JB film!

While blitterblats have featured in nearly all the JB films it seems to have been a while since we witnessed a really decent bit of flying in any of them.

Probably the best two flying sequences (for me) were those in "For Your Eyes Only" (which I think was 'The Wolff') and "The Spy Who Loved Me" (John Crewdson) of which I preferred the latter.

Time perhaps for a good helicopter-chase script in the near future!

Moving away from Bond (and observing the recent posts relating to the 'Deadly Encounter' movie) I find myself asking the question - just how many 'decent' films (as in a reasonable storyline and acting accompanied by good [non-CGI] shots) with flying sequences are there?

Only one movie springs to mind with an 'extended' rotary-wing segment meeting the above criteria .. "Apocalypse Now" (1979).

Any additional candidates?