EC135 or Bell 429 ?
 

Hi everybody,

I am new on this forum and I need some advice
Our company wants to buy a helicopter for 5/7 passengers to be operated in Africa and in the bush with range.
We think about the EC135 or Bell 429.
Any recomendations from experienced pilots who fly one of these is welcome.
TKS:)

EC130? Worth a look.

yako: Ask around your local helicopter scene, or here on PPrune if you wish, about the product and technical support recieved from both Eurocopter and Bell. When you're working in the bush or other remote locations, this aspect of helicopter operations is very important unless you want to spend a lot of time on the ground waiting for help to fix a problem.

135 will only take 6 pax plus pilot, leaving limited fuel endurance/range

If you want 7 pax plus pilot and more fuel endurance/range then would suggest 429

But as mentioned prior, check what support for either you will get in the field....

WLM

Be careful with the numbers quoted for the 429. Use a 212!

WLM - he said 5/7 PAX not seats!

EC145 would be a substitute for "more seats 135".

Needs & wants
 

What Your company wants, what someone is trying to sell them, what they want to afford, what they need and what will actually work, can be very different things.

There are other choices and for 'bush' work I wouldn't be too interested in either. More mission specifics beyond range and 5-7 pax might help define the most appropriate aircraft. On the assumption that 1) you may be flying it and 2) that you have an interest in it being around for the long term I would more clearly define my mission/s first.

Just my 2c having been in the position of selecting aircraft.

Bell 429
 

Hi Yako,


I have sent you a pm re the above

I agree with RotaryWingB2's suggestion for Africa. You need a simple machine which can carry the pax at temperature and altitude. Does not matter how good the manufacturer support is you have customs amongst many other things to deal with so you do not want to get in a situation where you require too many spares for instance. Custom clearance and work permits for engineers if something goes wrong is a nightmare so unless it's a contract or insurance requirement stick with something requiring minimal maintenance support. The 130 is prooving herself in Africa as a workhorse and of course there is the 350 but the 130 for pax is more than adequate. A twin requires extra maintenance and auto pilots extra 6 monthly or yearly checks so be careful cause those are the undefined potholes!

The guy (old H.H) from Bell in Fort Worth, TX told me that 429 is better:}

Assuming you've already done your research and you've narrowed it down to those two...It's got to be the Bell. It's bigger, faster, stronger, newer and as has been said, the product support is second to none. Oh....and you wont have to deal with Eurocopter....win win.

I'm sure someone wont like me mentioning it but to throw another one in the mix. Have you considered the MD902. The product support is not as good as Bell but it's ok at the moment. Pilots love flying it and it has a very good safety record. If you have to land in the bush, the Notar makes it the best for confined space landings. It's very quiet in the air and very smooth(unlike the 135), it also has better range then the 135, It's far more spacious than the 135 and about the same as the B429(902 has slightly bigger main cabin but smaller boot)

In 135, biggest problem will be endurance. If thats important for you, take 145 or 429.

But, 429 is relativly new and we will see how things will go with it.

Thanks for all the info.
The 429 is relatively new as Jet ranger said, and it's why I am looking for some advices and info from pilots flying her.
Good to hear the info regarding the EC135: 6 pax but poor range. How the range is affected in high 40's?
The 145 would be perfect........but price!!!!!
Thanks for all the posts I received. it's nice to get this help.
:D

Just looked at the data on the Bell page.
According to that you can load about 4 pax with a bit of luggage on a full tank.
Is that true? Any takers?

Well, somebody said that 429 performances are not as good as you can read in papers.
Other way, I ve been in Bell TX, few months ago and discussed with TR instructors on 429 and they said its really great mashine. On HEMS 300 nm flight, 30 min faster then 135...performence exellent.

300NM
 

Sorry but who's doing 300 NM legs in a helicopter for EMS, other than Bell marketing :hmm:

Go for a Bell 412 or 212,you have good support and a built in particle sepperator as well as high skid gear for bush landings.The blades are pretty robust as far as sand erosion as well. I have operated them in Iran and various African operations and they work!!
I do have a bit of time on them,I got my 212 licence in 1972.

Sorry all, but I cannot see the nostalgic attraction of the 212, its a piece of junk. 90kts or more and your teeth are rattling.. :=

Now the UH1H or 205 is a workhorse I can understand the love for :ok:

Of the modern aircraft in the offing here, I would say the EC135 is the better from proven history, but of course the 429 has yet to win over the new audience...:cool:

Me, I'm stuck on the 139........ No comment needed :E

@Bhl

It was some their customer in Canada, 150 nm in one direction, to pick up an ill person...and way back. They do that trip very often, have both 135 & now 429 ...and very satisfied with 429 ... 30 min difference...with better endurance ... but, as you said ... it can be only Bell marketing...:rolleyes:

135 proved itself :ok:, 429 have to do that in future...

NAC in Soutth Africa operate several 429's up Africa; the Chief Pilot said he was happy with them (though they are quite pricey).

They did have some MX issues which were a bit more complicated (ability to deal with locally) and required some special ferry flights back to Joburg to be dealt with, though that's where their primary MX facility is.