Compare before buying
 

We are in the process of buying a couple of new helicopters. We are comparing the Bell 429 with the EC 135 Hermes and the MD Explorer. The specifications are self evident for the most part, but there are little on the noise levels at landing and take off. These units will be in residential areas time to time particularly as our hangar is home based. Noise level is an issue. The information on the FAA site Appendix 10 and 11 regarding aircraft noise levels is not clear and does not have these newer models in any case. If anybody has real time measurements it will be helpful…thanks

The Bell 429, EC 135 and the MD Explorer are all about the same specification. Your issue will be maintenance and repair. Go with the one that has facilities near your area of operation.

Obviously eating your own phish bait as well! :D

Really?

Or am I wrong in thinking you are replying to your own questions?

Good reading here

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../Trollface.svg

I was replying to the comment above regarding which one to buy; no point buying a unit thaat has no service in the area. I have everything we need about all three except the noise levels if you'd care to actually read the notes.

Here's the hard bit..............
 

Why are you replying to your own request that you posted.

Or is your username used by several different people?

I smell PHISH.

Really? If you believe that I have a deal for you.

If noise is an issue, I recommend you take time to personally stand and listen in the area where a 429 is operating; you will be surprised at how quiet it is for a machine of it's size, compared to the two others. The four bladed tail rotor is amazingly quiet.

Don't go by just the numbers; your neighbors wont...:}

Some amazingly inaccurate and contrasting information in circulation hence ..

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/gh...w650-h207-p-no

Any accurate information (as well as approx. fuel burn) would be appreciated.

EC135P2+
we have a 710 liter capacity tank. I have never seen 137 knots in clean configuration, its more of 130kts IAS at PA 1000-2000ft. Fuel burn 220kg per hour.

Grazie Phoinix! :ok:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-i...429+comp+b.png

Fuel burn ...

Our EC135P2+ with empty weight 1890 kg, never more than 170-180 kg / per hour. Sometimes a little bit less...

Interesting.

Let's call the 'bit less' 167kg/h. This means a difference of 53kg/h between your 135 and Phoinix's.

Can we assume then that Phoinix is flying heavy loads at low altitude and you are flying light loads at high altitude?

Cruise with FLI 8 will give you 220kg/h. Flight close to vy will give you about 160kg/h. We normally fly with TOM of about 2800-2850kg.

Something like that. It's very variable with TOM/Speed...

JR

For those following the conversation but unfamiliar with some of the acronyms:

FLI = First Limit Indicator

8 = Representative of 80, for 80% torque. (FLI 10 is maximum for the 135).

TOM = Take off Mass

Vy = Speed for best rate of climb

Phoinix,

130kts IAS at 1000 or 2000ft gives you 133 to 136kt TAS (isa condition)... is your EC135 is slick or fitted with external equipment ?

In clean config, OAT 5C you would only reach 130 ias below 2700kg. Heavier than that its more 125ish.

The 429 may be $6.5m new if you fully load it up with stuff you probably don't need, but I'm pretty sure it starts under $6.

EC135P2+ minimum MAUW 2910 which can be extended to 2950kg and as the P3 to 2980kg.

Never burned more than 200kg/hr in Police role going FLI 9.5, for what it's worth.

That's 125-130kts with the camera and Nitesun fitted whilst pulling FLI9.5.

You must have some weird air mixture up there... :) FLI 9,5 on P2+?

@Savoia - P2 and P2+ although they have FLI markings, these have different torque values for the same FLI reading. FLI 10 is max. which in respect to the torque values are equal to 75% for P2 and 78% for P2+ (torque per engine).

@Brilliant Stuff: Cruising speed on EC135 is reduced by 5kts for SX-16, 4kts for FLIR and 6kts for loudspeakers... your police config reaches 130kts IAS or TAS at what PA? In clean config your EC would reach almost 145 kts... or is that the FIAT 109 we are talking about? :}

Recently went through the same comparison between the 135 and 429.
Pretty tough to get a new 429 for less than 6 million.
IMO, it would be a good idea to let the 429 platform mature for a few more years.
That said, both are good machines - but we decided on the 135- mainly because of the poor support we received from Bell on our previous machine. Hearing a lot of horror stories lately about the "award winning" support that Bell is supposed to be known for....and we operate in the same country where the machine is built. :eek:
The support from Eurocopter has been very good on the 135P2e.
BD