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Perhaps Bristows promised something simple like paying their corporation tax in UK:)
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The way you write Snake would suggest you were on the evaluation team! This is a rumour site after all. Rubbish posts mix with real gen - fact of life:E:ugh:;)
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so westminister [sic] can buy some deck chairs |
The Sunday Times.
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1230816.ece
AN AMERICAN helicopter operator is set to win a £3bn contract to take over Britain’s search and rescue service. Bristow, which is listed in New York and based in Houston, has beaten Bond Aviation, a British rival, to secure the 13-year deal. The Department for Transport may announce the decision as early as next week. The choice of Bristow brings to an end one of the most protracted and controversial government privatisations. Public sector unions fought the deal, citing concerns about safety and the closure of two bases. The rescue service is currently run jointly by the RAF, the Royal Navy and the Maritime & Coastguard Agency. Prince William is one of the pilots, based at RAF Valley on Anglesey. Opponents are concerned that a commercial operator with civilian staff would be unable to match the specialist skills of military crew. |
Bristow Group In The News - bristowgroup.com
Two of the four Sikorsky S-92 helicopters that will service the UK Gap Search and Rescue (SAR) contract for Northern Scotland have now arrived in Scotland and have begun training flights from Inverness Airport. The new helicopters feature a raft of state-of-the-art technology, some of which has never before been used in commercial search and rescue aircraft, and will enable Bristow to provide unprecedented search and rescue capabilities. Bristow invested in the latest night vision goggle technology in order to give the Gap SAR crews the very best equipment to be able to operate safely. The latest generation image intensifier tubes used in NVG require an export license agreement with the U.S. State Department. "Our new S-92 search and rescue aircraft are the first type in Europe to be certified for night vision goggle (NVG) technology," said SAR Commercial Manager Simon Tye. "The technology is essential when responding to night time incidents, particularly in Northern Scotland where winter days are short and operations can extend into the hours of darkness." In addition to night vision capabilities, other SAR-related features on the S-92 represent the latest and most comprehensive technology available. “Our new S-92s have improved forward-looking infrared (FLIR) and thermal imaging camera technology for more effective searches,” said Tye, “and high illumination lighting to make winching easier and safer. This will be particularly useful when operating in confined spaces or conducting cliff rescues. The long range fuel tanks will allow us to operate across the vast distances in Scotland we will be servicing.” The new S-92s are the first aircraft in Europe to be fitted with Trulink® wireless capabilities for communications between the aircraft and crew, while the wireless intercom system now allows winchmen to not only communicate with the aircraft but also to communicate with nearby vessels in the event that they are left behind at the scene. A much improved external public address system will allow the SAR crew to communicate far more clearly with causalities on the ground below. The medical zone intercom allows the cabin and cockpit to be split into isolated zones, meaning medical teams can work on a patient without the flight crew being distracted. Improved cabin lighting, including emergency white light, will enable advanced medical procedures to be carried out onboard. In addition, the cabins are fitted with 230 volt ac power outlets so that the SAR aircraft can operate advanced medical equipment onboard. Bristow have designed a bespoke cabin layout to accommodate more casualties and medical equipment safely. Bristow will commence operation of the Gap SAR contract from Sumburgh on 1 June and from Stornoway on 1 July 2013. Two S-92s will be stationed at each base. |
The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H
4thright
Ha ha no not at all. My biggest fault in life is that I cannot see gray. It's black or it's white to me. So grand statements without facts or substance from people who profess to know it and claim that they somehow have more facts than everyone else are just irritating. Gossip on the other hand is fine. Just don't pretend or state that its fact!? |
Its Sunday and I'm feeling lazy...........could someone tell me if 3bn is the value of lot 1 or lot 3? The newspaper article dose not implicitly say Bristow have managed to secure all the work.....though I'm sure its implied.
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It is for Lot 3
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Jings!!
Let's hope there's no confusion over the English and American definition of a billion in their bid!....doh! :eek: |
If you think that is a lot then some other bidders prices would have floored you. Removal of much third world debt springs to mind
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The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H
CHC was reported to be 20% more expensive, which doesn't sound much till you do 20% of £3,000,000,000 eek
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CHC was reported to be 20% more expensive, which doesn't sound much till you do 20% of £3,000,000,000 eek (Of course, £3bn is a top-end DfT contract notice estimate. I shall take a wild guess at £1.8bn.) |
The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H
I get the feeling you might be a chc fan Jim? One moment they are great because they are more expensive, next moment they are better because because they can do it cheaper? Which solution is the better one? Only one way to find out. FIGHT!
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I am a fan of British helicopter pilots.
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Jim, both bidders signed up to a 'managed path' for military SAR crews to transfer across to the new service - how many actually get taken on is a another matter but the intent is there.
Unfortunately, those of us on Sea King won't be automatically allowed a civvy IR because it has been deemed that the S61 is not an equivalent to the Sea King and the Sea King is not on the EASA list of aircraft. And people wonder why the CAA is sometimes seen as a money-making organisation:ugh: |
Yes, I've had a conversation about billing regimes with a man in Gatwick. They are going to make so much money out of Bristow in the next 13 years that you would think they could go easy on old Crabs from Chiv.
And yet there it is in the contract documents about how would the contractor make it possible for a SAR pilot at Chivenor to continue flying SAR at (or in the vicinity of) Chivenor. I heard in some quarters that 50 to 75% of pilots were expected to come from the military so there must be workable pathways out there. Time to have a chat with old friends and colleagues mate. |
Crab
Unfortunately, those of us on Sea King won't be automatically allowed a civvy IR because it has been deemed that the S61 is not an equivalent to the Sea King and the Sea King is not on the EASA list of aircraft. In 1990 when I got my ATPL (H) I did the flight test on the Seaking (with the 202 Sqn QHI) and the Tech paper for the S61 as they were then deemed to be equivalent. I never flew a S61 but there it was on my license! HF |
Crab, we all had to do civvy IRs on leaving the mob, whether proceduraly trained or not. Difference in your case is that Bristow will probably fund yours.
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Unfortunately, those of us on Sea King won't be automatically allowed a civvy IR because it has been deemed that the S61 is not an equivalent to the Sea King and the Sea King is not on the EASA list of aircraft. And people wonder why the CAA is sometimes seen as a money-making organisation |
With the announcement of the contract winners now a mere formality and the transfer of military personnel to the civilian organisation a probability rather than a possibility, has anyone given any thought to the role of BALPA in the new set up? For example, if the organisation is faced with two candidates for a command position, one ex RAF Sea King driver weighed down with medals and cuttings from newspapers, not to mention Pprune posts and the other a fully qualified S92 captain with limited SAR experience but loads of time on the aircraft and seniority in the company plus membership of BALPA - who gets the nod? I think I know the answer but I would be interested to hear other views.
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Snarlie
a fully qualified S92 captain with limited SAR experience but loads of time on the aircraft and seniority in the company plus membership of BALPA - who gets the nod? I think I know the answer but I would be interested to hear other views. limited SAR experience HF |
212man - unfortunately, although SAR does technically come under the state provisions, the CAA attitude seems to be that, where possible, states should operate iaw EASA rules. I presume all the police pilots have EASA licences because of that.
There is also a question whether you can fly an aircraft on the EASA list without an EASA licence. Macaco - yes I would expect to be bonded for the IR and do it whilst on the type conversion course. HF - it would seem the CAA have switched off the link between S61 and Sea King which seems odd, especially since the differences in engines and FCUs don't really affect the way it flies on instruments! As for how the manpower pans out - since Portland will close, there will be a whole flights-worth of 139 crews who will just need a differences course to convert to 189 and a change of address to Swansea if they want to stay in the Southern half of the country unless Wattisham is moved to Manston. There will be 2 full flights-worth of S92 crews at Stornoway and Sumburgh who will probably want to move South (or maybe they do like it up there;)) That leaves 6 flights (in terms of numbers) to fill with some S92 and some 189. The RN will try and grab all the slots at St Mawgan and Glasgow (if that is where Culdrose and Prestwick move to) leaving 4 flights to fill from other civvy posts in the company or RAF ship-jumpers who don't fancy SH or flying desks. It will be an interesting few months... |
While I would have preferred for this work to have remained in the hands of the military, I am glad that it went to Bristows who (afaik) were pioneers in privatised SAR in the UK and still have the appearance of being a partly British company.
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It will be interesting to discover whether the resilience aspects of the final outcome result in crews needing to be qualified for all the type on the contract.
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For example, if the organisation is faced with two candidates for a command position, one ex RAF Sea King driver weighed down with medals and cuttings from newspapers, not to mention Pprune posts and the other a fully qualified S92 captain with limited SAR experience but loads of time on the aircraft and seniority in the company plus membership of BALPA - who gets the nod? I think I know the answer but I would be interested to hear other views. 18th Mar 2013 10:55 1. Do they meet the minimum contractual requirement for experience levels. This tends to favour the ex military and others may have to serve time waiting for this before Command. 2. Do they have a type rating. This will save you 30k on an S92 or 50K on an AW139. Plus the cost of wages while your pilot is away being type rated. This favours existing civvie pilots. 3. Do they work for a major competitor of yours. This is the icing on the cake if you can get a qualified guy and sting your competitor for retraining costs at the same time!! This one is interesting because it actually discriminates against people already in your Company but is a very valid commercial reason. |
I presume all the police pilots have EASA licences because of that. |
Just wondering on peoples views regarding the maintenance implications and how this will likely be affected?
Currently i believe there are around 24 Engineers per site, any idea what these figures may drop to per site? What the make up might be ratio wise B1.3/B2/Tech If maintenance is likely to be carryied out at each site or at a central service location. Also the likely hood that some guys might get brought over and if this info would be released by Bristows sonner rather than later? I.e Jump now or hold on to the little ray of light at the end of current SAR :confused: |
That is very naughty of the CAA. The Sea King was always considered 'same type' for licence purposes when " I were a lad". All it required was 30 minutes with staneval / 1179 and you licence got S61 on it!
New sites are complemented for between 6-8 engineers TOTAL. The mil are always top heavy and this is another reason why running civvy SAR will be much much cheaper (and easier). Even with the profit margin built in ;) It's not called the 'managed path' it's managed route or something else (name escapes me). The bottom line is this and Bristows (oops sorry) ahem the winner will have to be prepared to accept that the RAF are NOT repeat NOT going to release a load of SAR qual'd pilots/aircrepersons onto the market place. They will be looking at their interests initially and then the interests of the individual second. I estimate that out of a total of 25 extra crews needed, the winner will be 50% short of staff :eek: |
SK22. Changes in the approach to the number of a/c may work in your favour. :ok:
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there are 8 per site as min of 2 per shift reqd (on 92 bases). 24h on 24h off on the current roster. theres also a labourer and a chief engineer.
139 bases work different hours but would envisage the same as h&s doesnt allow working on your own. |
The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H
Jim671
What are you saying? That there more ac than you have been insisting will be the case whilst you were casting doom and gloom with your BFF? I am sure you said if that was the case you would admit you had been wrong! I can find the post if needed |
Yes, snake, it's true. You were right about something. :p
No need to search for the post. You're behind the curve again because in anticipation of a 10 aircraft solution being announced I have already put out feelers for another Agusta Westland mug to replace the one I have promised to smash! :O The original contract notice and all publicly available DfT documents do not specify the number of aircraft. It was up to the bidders to risk assess and to propose a scheme that achieved the required availability. The world changed on 22nd of October. It hasn't yet changed back. We shall soon see what effect that has had. |
The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H
I don't believe I've been wrong about anything yet? Not that I've said much just had a positive mental attitude instead of a we're all doomed attitude
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With all this rumour and speculation it would be good to think our over cautious beaurocrats in the DfT will get their bosses to say something "official" very soon.:ugh:
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With all this rumour and speculation it would be good to think our over cautious beaurocrats in the DfT will get their bosses to say something "official" very soon. |
Thanks for that insight, and the correct spelling!:cool: I had hoped we would have a choice of contractors to work for but it seems its gonna be Hobson's Choice if the rumours are right.:sad:
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The two-provider solution has a lot going for it and it has served us pretty well for most of the last 60 years. :E
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2 bidder solution?
The main thing against a 2 bidder solution, Jim, is cost. 2 seperate contracts, 2 companies, 2 sets of HQ/mangement/training etc would more than likely cost more than a single bidder solution. This would sound pretty appealing at a time when budgets are being cut again.
Yes, 2 contactors mitigates a certain amount of risk should one company fail to deliver for whatever reason, but I'm lead to believe that there's some sort of mechanism in the contact that allows the Govt to step in and run the service for a short time (using that contactors personnel and aircraft) in that situation, giving a continuity of service and allowing some time to rectify the situation. |
Bristow operated in four locations for 20 years as a sole provider without any issues. Should be no reason they can't do the same again in 10 bases for 13-17 years, particularly now they are a much bigger company with more financial clout.
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The main thing against a 2 bidder solution, Jim, is cost. ... ... a time when budgets are being cut again. ... ... I'm lead to believe that there's some sort of mechanism in the contact that allows the Govt to step in and run the service for a short time (using that contactors personnel and aircraft) in that situation, giving a continuity of service and allowing some time to rectify the situation. ... Should be no reason they can't do the same again in 10 bases for 13-17 years, ... |
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