The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H
 

No problem Jim. You have every right to believe what you want. However, if you're wrong just be big enough to admit it when the time comes. I will continue to stay positive and balance my viewpoint with the facts that are available instead of dishing out constantly negative speculation!

The future's bright? We are talking about AW here, have you had dealing's with them before?

Can you remember the WG30?

Geoffers is spot on. The general public have no interest in maritime affairs and it is only those of us close to the action who see it as a priority. SAR is not on their radar...let's hope the privitisation provides a reasonably sound coverage for the UK and some work for us in this industry (at least until I need to hang up my flying boots). Some maufacturing jobs at AW will be trumpeted by ministers as a positive spin-off.

Yes Timex. Thanks very much for making me think about the WG30. :p


Yes. I have a nice cup of coffee here in an AW PZL-Swidnik mug. Remind me to smash my coffee mug if we see 10 AW189s assigned to Lot 2.

Jim: Come on now, time up. Time to either stop posting or go to the MRS web site and chat there. You are trying to stop time. Crab makes me laugh (I know him and meet him very often) because he knows where his future bread and butter is and has every intention of joining civvy SAR (and they would be wise to employ his skills too) BUT he keeps whacking the idea that future SAROPs is doomed just like you.

Please think carefully about stalking this thread....it's over it's dead.

The government will NOT allow the AW project at Yeovil to fail. Too many political ideals at risk to allow it to fail.
As was said by fagins goat - loads of jobs everywhere if AW win. THAT IS ALL THAT COUNTS...can't you see. Joe public are worrying about their jobs, not the colour of a helicopter that flies overhead now and again:*

C'mon now...time to hang your loudspeaker up!

:ugh:So only aircrew can post on here eh? I think Jim makes a good point amongst many from my experience. The MCA know nothing about overland SAR nor do they have any legal authority, it has never been part of their MO. Aviation rescue issue is not strictly within their remit either from a legal perpsective. People involved in overland or aviation rescue, never mind any NHS ambulance work that the present mil SAR force gets involved with, are right to have concerns about how the new service will develop and respond to their needs.
While I am sure the aircraft we will get will be very capable, this is by no means the end of it. Many on this thread write as though it is.
While I fully agree that most of the public really have no views on the future of SAR, we the professionals involved are the only ones who can maintain the quality as it moves forward, whatever our role or organisation.
Simply shrugging your shoulders and stating that things have moved on is an abrogation of professional responsibility. They have not moved on yet, and no one can be sure where things will actually end up. The next few years will be challenging for all involved.:mad::hmm:

TC, we all know that to be true and that is the problem, by going down this path, an organisation is being created that is too big (and important) to fail.

So, when anything goes wrong, who picks up the tab? DfT which is then passed on to you and me as taxpayers. At least with the MoD as main players, any extra costs came straight from the MoD budget which had already been allocated.

One man's negativity is another man's caution - fools rush in............

4th right - spot on:ok:

The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H
 

Crab,
Ha ha that's your best line yet. Comparing commercial procurement to the MOD and holding the MOD up as a shining beacon of all that's good and at no cost to the taxpayer. I'm still laughing.
MOD pick up the bill with allocated budgets? Did you join yesterday? Have you seen the latest procurement overspend. The same british taxpayer picks up that tab too!
From this years NAO report:
"The NAO's annual report on the MoD's major equipment projects said the overall costs of the department's projects have risen by a total of £6.6bn and commissions have been delayed overall by 39 years since being ordered."

We could have had 2 UK SAR deals for all that waste but don't worry taxpayers crab says its all free because its "allocated!" He he

P3. Do tell us which one of the bidders is using a version of CRM where critical enquiry is not welcome?

Having spent a considerable part of my life sculling around the world working for different companies I know one thing. Companies do not employ you for what you think; they employ you for what you can do.

anybody here undergoing AW189 training ?
 

I recall a poster here mentioned they were undergoing AW189 training, if so could they PM me please

DM

It was Geoffersincornwall.

Very true Fareastdriver, but when they find out what you think it tends to affect your position in "the door is that way" queue when it all goes pear shaped.

Two things I have learnt about British managers are that they dont like to consult with the rabble who actually do the job and they don't like to be criticised no matter how justified the criticism.

I think you'll find that goes for most managers in this industry, British or otherwise.

Been away for 6 months
 

So, I haven't bothered to look at this post for 6 months. Question? Are you all having a groundhog day? Same old same old!

Sorry Crabb, I don't think anything you say on here is actually going to change anything. Some of the posts have highlited some really good points - like actually the boys and girls at the Coastie sites do a perfectly good job and the world didn't stop. That the Gov will be interested in UK jobs and if it can create some it actually should! However, they didn't even have to because the 2 companies chose the 189 if this thread is to be believed. They did so for commercial reasons, yep nasty old commercial reasons. But they still did. So, what now..... I'm off for another 6 months because I KNOW nothing will change from anything I say on here. Happy Easter as I won't be back until summer - if we have one this year!

P3 - like the rest of the civsar community, if and when I join it, I will have to remain silent since I know that public criticism is not favoured.

I have received communications from those in civsar in the past agreeing with many of my points and criticisms privately because they are not allowed to do so publicly.

I have been reined in several time by my RAF superiors over some things I have posted on this forum but they generally acknowledge that whilst it may be unpopular, most of what I post is true.

That is where we end up in the commercial world - management that won't listen and no voice to protest - that's a really admirable quality for an organisation.

We had a very interesting presentation about NASA and the Challenger and Columbia disaters from a Cranfield lecturer highlighting how poisoned an organisation can become when the boss is of the opinion that it is 'my way or the highway'. That organisation will eventually fail and it is just a question of what damage it manages to do to itself or other people in the process.

SARREMF - that is what you said the last time just before SARH fell over:)

The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H
 

Anyone know when the announcement is to be made? Rumour that it might be this week?

Middle of April I heard.

The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H
 

Had heard that one too, but have heard that government are due to sign off this week. Any other sources confirm or deny?

Based on the process timetable published in the September ITT pack, this week would have brought the 'Notice of Intention to Award Contract (Phase 5)' on Friday the 8th. That presumably means that an award notice would appear on the Office of the Journal of the European Union website on that date. I have checked all UK Contract Award Notices in OJS 48/2013 (Official Journal Supplement for Fri 8th March: insomnia sorted) and there are none for SAR Helicopters.

In December, there was a delay of 5 weeks that occurred at the 'Return of Final Tenders' phase. If that were carried forwards then it would make the Notice date the 12th April. However, that date falls within the Easter Recess of the UK Parliament, so we may be moderately confident that it will not occur at that time.

Sooner? Later? Ask anyone who wants to order aircraft, negotiate ITAR purchases, build bases and recruit staff, if they think it should be any later than it already is, shall we?

Rumour is still 25 March at our end.

£1 in the sweepstake anyone? Monday 11th March to any point in the future, take your pick...

26 march. Day before the politicians disappear on their expense fuelled Easter jollies. All the controversial decisions traditionally announced in this manner so the news is forgotten by the time they come back to work....

SW
A Cynic or what

Unparliamentary language 500e! :)

Can I have a pound on 19 April please? It's just a rumour...

We were briefed last week that the announcement in 'The House' ref contract award, basing decisions, etc, is expected towards the end of April, possibly around the 19th ish.

Is it the same muppets in the D of T dealing with this contract that were involved in the East Coast Mainline railway f##k up? Just wondering......

Hawksridge - yes it is the same muppets I believe.

Does anyone know where Bristows are planning to use the 12 EC175s they have just ordered?

Probably to be used by GOMer's and maybe around Norwich or somewhere warmer...:}

BRS 175 are for East Africa and Australia. The winner of Long SAR will be informed on the 26 March. Everyone else will have to wait til 29th.

How quiet this thread has become! An announcement must be imminent yet no banter on here at all.
Hope all those CVs are lined up and ready to post y'all. Fancy South Wales and a shiney new 189 myself.;)

Announcement will be made on Monday 25th March. It will disclose the winners and also the future footprint of the bases. This is a change to the original in that the base positions were to be disclosed much later on.

My bet: Bristows and their AW189's / S92's and NO MoD sites.....:E

That is assuming that no other bidders (who are all now fully aware of who has won) don't submit any complaints in the 10 day standstill period that is now in force. If they do then it could be months before any formal announcement.

Lawyers will be working hard this weekend.

Hi TC,

We at the "coal face" have been told to expect the public announcement on the 19th of april by da management. Could be wrong though.

My bet: the whole process gets delayed again so westminister can buy some deck chairs in time for summer and we all listen (hear) Crab tell us we're all doomed for the next 5 years.............cant wait. :)

Pig

IFR - as Ron Fenest says - the decision has already been made and the delay in public announcement is whilst toys are thrown out of cots by the losers and the lawyers earn enough for another ski chalet in the Alps;)

Time to dust off the CVs I guess.

Rearrange the following letters into the abbreviation of a well known helicopter company - L, B, H.......

I am running smaller scale public procurement and heaven help you if you award without proper evidence. Unless there is clear blue water between the bidders (is that likely?) what would be the reason for not having a two-contractor solution like Gap that spread the considerable risk.

Jim671
As to "clear blue water", unless you are privvy to both bids its a case of "who knows?" but one has to assume that if the result is a Lot 3 solution then there must have been a good reason?

You are assuming that 2 contractors actually reduces the risk but you haven't quantified the "risk" you are talking about, or explained why you think that to be the case?
I am guessing that for every risk you think of against a single contractor solution an equally weighty argument can be made for a single contractor solution. All that said we don't actually KNOW who has won yet or what the solution is so its all just hot air but its passed 5 minutes till the deciding 6 nations match starts lol.

The risk profile is heavily loaded by insurance and and financing aspects.

The case for Lot 3 is bound to be a purely cost issue and thats not the whole story on something this complex.

Really, you know that for a fact do you jim? You might be right but the problem with rumours and gossip is that they are just that, and that unfortunately people who gossip rarely consider the "whole story" before bashing away at the faceless people who are often really trying to do their best and cannot defend themselves.

How about we all wait for the official announcement, gather some actual facts and then see if we would have done it any different? Or does that take the fun out of it all ha ha