I dont think TUPE would apply, this is a contract that CHC has lost to Bond thats all, It would be different if Bond were taking over CHC then TUPE would come into force. I have heard that all the crew involved at the moment have been allocated positions at other CHC bases.

Does TUPE apply?

A 'relevant TUPE transfer' can occur in the following situations:

• A business undertaking (or part of one) is transferred from one employer to another as a going concern. This is known as a ‘business transfer’
• A client engages a contractor to carry out work on its behalf, or where it reassigns such a contract – including bringing the work back ‘in-house’. This is known as a ‘service provision change’

??

Have CHC allocated there EGNH crews to other bases also ?

I still dont think TUPE applies on the bond contract on those basis either but thats just my opinion, I didnt hear about the guys in Blackpool, but I did hear that in north denes they were looking to either move crew as they were over manned and now the loss of contracts, well I hope it doesnt mean redundancies.

Have they won this one aswell?:confused:

What a turn around. Just a few months ago the pax were refusing to fly with Bond. It would appear that a company recent safety record has little influence on award of contracts. So much for Target Zero.

What on Earth has Target Zero got to do with Bond?

Not much it seems.

Epihany.

So are you saying that an operator should not be granted any new contracts if they have an incident/accident?

As far as Blackpool is concerned, there's no truth in that whatsoever I'm afraid. At least, if they have, they've not bothered to tell the crew.

rsevo, if you take a little time to read the thread that statement was in a discussion with reference to the operation at Cork, and as stated about 2 comments later nothing to do with Blackpool as nothing heard about that base or contract.

maxvne,

no need to get defensive. in any case, you are wrong about Cork as well. Nothing has been decided about the crew there yet either.

As far as I know, TUPE is still undecided, but if you go by the guidelines posted earlier, there is no reason it wouldn't apply. What makes you so sure it wouldn't?

Hi Walesuk
I wasnt being defensive just stating that he should have read the thread before using a statment in the wrong context. As I have said already it is only in my opinion that I personally dont think TUPE would apply as I cant see why it should or would. when contract are won and lost all over the north sea I dont ever remember TUPE comming into force, only time is when there was a company purchased. In the case for the Bond contract there were at least 5 tenders and Bond won the contract.
I know of 2 pilots in CHC Cork and one is heading for aberdeen and the 2nd is heading for SAR.
Maybe if I am wrong you can provide the correct answer Im sure they would love to hear where you think they are going.

A relevant transfer :-

ii) activities cease to be carried out by a contractor on a client's behalf (whether or not those activities had previously been carried out by the client on his own behalf) and are carried out instead by another person ("a subsequent contractor") on the client's behalf;

Nuff said.:hmm:

Dont forget they are not in the UK and the laws differ from country to country

maxvne, don't be so condescending. Your initial post was in response to nightjar1 which read:

There's no specific mention of Cork there whatsoever. You then stated in a later post that you hadn't heard about the guys in Blackpool, and I responded by saying that there has been no mention to any crew members of allocation anywhere, thereby partially filling a gap in your extensive knowledge of the situation.

To be honest, you started by saying that ALL CHC crews involved had been allocated positions at other bases, and now you think you know of 2 Cork pilots that are defainately moving somewhere else. Probably.

Personally I think you make it up as you go along.

The name of the thread is BOND CORK and I have only being referring to Cork only as I stated I didnt know or hear anything about any other base so get back in your little box please

You may only have been referring to Cork, but when you respond directly to someone else's post, you have to take into account the context of that post. The fact that you didn't know anything about any bases other than Cork didn't stop you speculating about what you "heard" in North Denes either did it.

Good grief. Tell you what, I'll go find a box, but only if you promise to be specific about what you know and don't know, instead of throwing out barely decipherable statements which may or may not be factual. I've "heard" alot of things about you, but I'm not certain they're true, so I don't think I'll post them here eh.

I think that's enough about that.

:D

TUPE in Ireland is called PETU (no joke!) and it is apparantly as much as a minefield as TUPE is here in the UK.
Just something to think about amongst all this speculation....
The aircraft type is changing for this contract to a smaller skidded machine. Would the current crews want TUPE (PETU)?

Regression
 

This thread is depressing.
Yes, contracts always change hands and one company rises as another falls etc.
However, the company that is disappearing up its own behind just now has the strongest union membership and a history of improving the industry terms and conditions - the last big industry wide pay rise for example. This fast shrinking company has decided to remove the good terms and conditions it took credit for in the past and either as a result or just unfortunate coincidence it is losing contracts left, right and centre.
Are we really headed back to the days when flying a helicopter was scoffed at by our fixed wing cousins? A time when the only people who could afford to do it were pensioned ex-military or people who had rich Daddies and nothing better to do?
Let's not go back to split pay based on the size of your machine or the reach of your tongue. Nor single pilot IFR offshore ops. There were reasons these things disappeared and they weren't financial.
Anybody else seen Crude Brittania recently and the similarities between 'then' and now? :(
Hompy

Another then and now..............

Strong unions, strike action, disaffected customers,Loss of business.........That would be British Leyland in the 70s then - reflect on what happened to them.

I'm afraid CHC is a bit of an complex animal, with many constituent parts, that in themselves probably function Ok. However nobody has ever had the strength of leadership to pull all these fractious children together.

There has also been unfortunate history going back to the days of Maxwell, the "merger" at the end of the nineties, the strategic re-organisation in 2003 which had no artifacts of "Change management" applied, and I feel your current woes probably extend from that point forward.

Mix in with this the massive churn of management and admin staff, and positions that exist for a few months only, initiatives to fix problems identified, that are not resourced, chronic lack of project management at any level, people promoted into inappropriate postions. The wonder is that is that it still exists as a business entity today.

There are many excellent people throughout the depts and levels of the organisation, but they are essentially leaderless.

The responsibility for the way any business operates ultimately rests with the CEO/MD, supported by his Directors and senior managers. CHC Scotia doesn't operate as a top down organisation, its kinda from the middle, in a bit of an unstructured way.

There was perhaps maybe one person who was able to make a go of it, and he stayed for 10-11 months before being short toured back to Australia - which was a great pity, but just another example of how not to run a company.

I wish everyone well in these difficult times for the company.

BS

Nightjar1/walesuk;

Contrary to what certain other contributers to this thread have tried to suggest (amongst other things), it has now been confirmed that, as agreed by Bond and CHC in the contract, TUPE will apply to those at Blackpool at least.

Bond on the rise?
 

So, if Bond have taken the contract in Cork off CHC then does that mean they also are well placed to do the same with the Rescue Services Contract in Ireland?

Apparently its worth around 270 million over ten years.

RE: Good positioning
 

No, it doesn't.

ZeroAlpha,
Hompy's rather brief reply is accurate.
As you state, that job is worth $x over y years, meaning it has been contracted out to the current operator for that time. Now, barring any serious breaches of that contract by the operator that will void the terms as wirtten and automatically result in cancellation, the next time this job is up for grabs is at the end of the term.

THEN it will go out to re-tender and be up for grabs to whoever puts the best offer on the table. Under certain circumstances a party in a contract can withdraw early by mutual agreement, thus opening up the job for re-tender, but generally the job is secure to the contractor for the duration of the term.

rsevo;

Thats great news for you guys!, lets just hope Cork has the same outcome .

When you say 'confirmed' you mean Bond have been in touch or its in writing ?

Bond in Cork
 

Burr Styers has it exactly right with regard to CHC Management. They are lead from the middle....for as long as competent people remain in post.

They have lost Cork, they have also definitely lost Blackpool and Perenco out of Norwich. It won't stop there but there is the question of airframe availability. Time will tell.

There is no doubt that those companies that have a strong identity, are also pretty cohesive, (well put together) stable, and generally prosper. The problem with CHC is, .........its not quite sure what it is, or who's running it. The last decade has been pretty turbulent for them one way or another, and there still seems to be this air of instability throughout the organisation. This manifests itself as commercial uncertainty and a grumpy workforce.

Despite the efforts of many good people who have come, and left in frustration, CHC trundles on in spite of itself,.........and not because of itself.

There is no magic wand to wave, no pixie dust to spread around, they just need to start talking from the head........ and not the heart.

BS

Burr

Perhaps they should be putting you in to get CHC on the right track along with the management consultants. You seem to have it all worked out.

Gov

My comments are nothing more than a retrospective view - based on 20/20 hindsight. Been There, done that, ......now doing something else.:ok:

I genuinely wish them all the best.

BS

You show me a company that does'nt have at least one bad manager and you win a banana !! or a enstrom ;)
CHC may have more then there fair share at the moment, but what goes around' comes around' :)
'''Watch this space'''

No heart? Where's Dorothy when you need her.

I'm off to see the Wizard.....

Anyone applied for a job in Cork? Am curious what Bond are offering captains and co-pilots salary wise. Please email or PM me if you don't want to post here.


Cheers.

I just found out the starting salaries being offered to pilots in Cork from Bond Air Services. It's an absolute pittance. A disgrace really and a major step backwards for pilot's as a whole. I just hope their cost cutting doesn't affect safety.

Is there a need for additional Pilots? Will some of the current workforce move to other bases? The grapevine has been very quiet in my neck of the woods!

Word on the street is P2 salaries starting in and around 40,000 euro, new guys (not current CHC pilots) to fill the slots.
P1 salaries starting around 60,000 euro, one of the positions possibly filled by a contributer to this thread, not me by the way. Stand to be corrected.:E

€32k for co-pilots and €68k for captains is what I've been told. Captain rates are comparable (I think) to onshore rates in the UK, but from what I hear, Ireland is a much more expensive place to live.

Co-pilots are going to be struggling, especially if they have a family.

Hi guys its actually 38k euro for the co-pilots. Havent heard bout the captains pay yet.

Hi I also heard 32 for co and 68 for capt, but great if they get more.

So, what's the latest on this one. Isn't it suppose to be kicking off Jan 1st.:confused:

Why :confused:

It will start as advertised :ok:

:D:D:D