Hi,

I wouldnt be buying new and have a budget of £100k so wouldnt need finance.

Seen an enstrom today , do they do a 4 seater? searched but cant find any?

Matt

The Enstrom 480 and 480B turbines will carry 4 (5 at a pinch).

IMO excellent helicopters - especially the latest 'B's - and in a different class to the R44 - smooth, quiet, spacious and very well engineered.

But, 480s will start nearer £200k+ and 480Bs will be £300k ++. Running costs are likely to be higher than the R44 (TT straps every 2 yrs), although Jet A is half the price and depreciation would be less.

I know what it costs to operate because I own one and it's on the N register.

£5000. PA insurance.
£ 15,000 PA maintenance based on 100 hrs / year
£ 40 p/hr fuel

120 kts cruise 18 gph :ok:

That's approx £240 /hr DOC. You should expect to pay less than £200 k for a good one. And they hold their price very well too so perhaps nothing for depreciation.:)

Interesting numbers thanks CJ. The robbo's do get extremely expensive with spiking maintenance cost when the annual hours get below 183. I bet many private owners would not even get to 100/yr.

However I also think you have got lucky with a really nice 500C to keep your maintenance costs down at the level you are seeing.

It is a similarly interesting exercise to compare an R22 to an H269 for exactly the same reasons.

Cheers,
JohnO

Have you considered a part share/club?

I know of a Jetranger that you take one third ownership for about your budget and maintenance costs would be 1/3 of running yourself?

Very easy going guys and nice machine

PM me if interested (not my machine by the way!) I will pass on details

Matt - given your budget and forecast use (30 - 50 hours p.a.). I'd strongly recommend, instead of purchasing a machine solely for your own use, you either:

• SFH
• join a syndicate (Helidata regularly has advertisements for members)
• buy, but negotiate a leaseback deal with a local flying school (I did this with my first machine, an R22, and the profit covered a big chunk of my own flying time :ok:)

TTB

The problem is that there aren't very many syndicates around in the rotary world. There are lots for fixed wing but very few for helos. I looked for ages to find one in sensible driving distance but had no luck, so I wound up buying my own R22. That was 3 years ago and I have never regretted it although the economics do not stack up as I only average 50 hours or so per year. However the sheer convenience of owning makes up for it.

I have a third share in a f/w aircraft which is also under utilised as between the 3 of us we only do about 100 hours per year. Too many aircraft, too little time I guess!

It's a pity that not more low time R44 owners unite, sell their ships, form syndicates all over and buy something real like an AS350 or at least an EC120 :ok:

You could count me in any time. Thinking of it, doesn't that sound like a business plan? Contact, convince and manage brand new helicopters for current R44 owners.

I'm part of a five person syndicate running an Enstrom 480. Very cheap turbine flying and a great machine. £300 pm and £125/hr wet. Don't try to lift more than four people with full fuel though if you want to get off the ground.

A helicopter pilot with a businessplan... where is that going to end??? :}

It is a funny thing considering some of us went into flying helicopters thinking it would make us some money.

ha ha!! It was good to start the syndicate thought process on this thread!

I know of a number of helicopter syndicates in the turbine world, as I say a Jetbox for £100k (which lets face it you will never lose the hull value - may even appreciate) and a third of the running costs in a friendly well run group works every time...

Stand by my offer of making introductions if anybody is willing to put their money where their keyboard is!

Er, don't know of an EC120 (yet!) I am sure that as older machines become available you will see more of them, but with the huge maintenance bills seen by these machines, I would still have reservations......

I would be up for buying into a machine with someone, I have owned a few now but the costs are hard to justify when you do less than 100 hrs a year,
If anyone knows of an underutilised R44 that would like 50 hrs buying on it please PM me.

RB - where are you based?

Enstrom syndicate
 

Is your syndicate on the 480 still running? If so where are you based?

If you are looking at maintenance be aware that the scheduled maintenance is just the start. UNSCHEDULED maintenance kills any attempt at planned expenditure. And be aware that in helicopters, the owner will pay for everything: parts and labour even if the part to be replaced was defective. No it is not fair or reasonable but it is the way it is.

If you do decide to buy an R44 be aware an AD is about to be released that means the blades will have to be upgraded to the latest part no at the owner's expense within 5 years of the AD being published.. As with any helicopter you need to be able to lay your hands on a large amount of cash at short notice if anything breaks and needs replacing. Its that or it sits on the ground broken until you can sell it or save up.

Adam,

We have sold the Enstrom and bought a very nice Hughes 500C. (G-LEEJ) Its hangared at City airport Manchester (Barton). For group members we charge £400/mth and £125/hr wet. We are thinking of releasing a 2 or 3 non equity shares. Contact me if interested.

Steve. 07703-531666

Don't forget how you work the figures out
EG Take one of my 500D's she cruises at 135 kts which is 20% faster than a 206 therefore you use 20% less fuel and parts to do the same job. Only works if you go places, if just up for an hour if hour building makes no difference.