Fancy giving me a flight......
 

Hi everyone,

Let me start off by saying I don't mean to cause any offence but I feel that some of you may not like what I'm about to say.

Let me start off by telling you a bit about myself. I'm currently a Civilian Gliding Instructor at RAF Kenley where I teach air cadets to glide...it's a weekend thing and a great hobby. Being RAF that it is, we sometimes get to do other things. Last year I went on an Instructor Development Training course, which is designed to allow us to fly other aircraft and go outside our comfort zones.

Part of the course involved having a 20 minute jolly in an RAF Squirrel. Now 5 minutes of that was engine start up and a running crew change. In the 15 minutes of actual flying I was taught to hover, take-off and land and allowed to practice it all twice.

Now I happened to mention this on YouTube and it prevoked a big reaction from people saying it wasn't possible to learn all of that in 15 minutes. My attitude was it was fairly easy to fly a helicopter. Now I'm not saying that I'm a sky god, as 7 other people did the same thing on the same day and a further 8 people done it again 2 weeks later. However, I still think that it was easy. Obviously I wasn't perfect...I was a tiny bit twitchy as I wasn't used to the sensitivity but nonetheless, it was safe, to a good standard and a right laugh.

Now, a few people have challenged me to prove my allegations so that's what this post is about.

Is there anybody on here who would be willing to offer me a free flight in a helicopter from Blackbushe, Hampshire, with conventional controls (i.e. not a Robinson) to prove that it's common to learn what I claim. This request is mainly aimed at people who have to do a flight to keep up their hours, with me riding shot gun.

If anyone would be prepared to do this then please E-mail at [email protected]

I wouldn't mind another place to go from, provided its not to far from Blackbushe.

Anyway, kind regards to all you professionals, Adam

Get straight down to your Royal Air Force Careers Office sonny Jim. You are a natural for SARF. Should only take a week or so and you will be telling the rest of us how to do it.

I say old chap what a curious post

having spent forty f***ing grand myself on flight training some 10 years ago and working now with people who have spent 100 f***ing grand more recently of their own (borrowed) money :(

I am inclined to say " why dont you just pay for a trial lesson, like the rest of us old bean" what do you think?

cheerio

CF

Adam, you have no idea what inputs the instructor was making to help you. You thought he was just covering the controls :}

And what, exactly, is unconventional about the controls of a Robinson; the cyclic operates in exactly the same way as that in a Squirrel.

Now guys, shall we put him in an anti-clockwise rotating ship? :}

Cheers

Whirls

Must be due to all that time hovering a glider waiting for the winch to start yanking your hind end of the grass that gave you that touch.....wait a minute that was just keeping the wings level.:ugh:

So, Imagine a kind PPL were to let you have a free go and you stuff it into the deck and write the aircraft off and cause other damage or injury, or both.

How is your insurance?

Point is, a PPL "who has to fly to keep his hours up" won't be insured or legally allowed to let you fly the aircraft as he isn't qualified to instruct. He/she would probably be in need of personal flying practice, let alone be quick enough to take control from you if you made a complete Horlicks of it, especially in the hover.

The military rules are different - even so you were lucky to get the earlier flight. I would agree that you should get your hand in your back pocket and buy yourself a lesson with someone qualified and insured to let you fly.

When I did my trial flight, I won't say it seemed easy, but it didn't seem extremely hard either. The hard bit is say from 1 to 5 hours, when it is REALLY yours to mess up - and you do. After that it gets easier.

At around 30 hours now, I don't think flying helicopters is exactly hard (1200 hours of fixed wing time probably helps too), but it does take a lot of perseverance to get through the "my god I'll never get the hang of this" phase.

But don't be over-confident because the first 30 minutes seems easier than you expect.

n5296s / n9888s

Many moons ago, when I was at Shawbury on CFS(H) I gave a motorcycle copper 'the 10 min hovering lesson', after flying him out to photograph a vehicle crash site. I can't remember which field it was, but it was SW of Shawbury.
It was literally 10 minutes, cyclic only, lever only, lever and pedals etc but all in very short order. Blow me down. The bloke was hovering, no sh1t, within that time. I have never since seen anything like it and I've never seen anything like it since - more like 10 hours than 10 mins for even an acceptable hover.
So these people do exist and I wouldn't scoff too loudly.
But you can't fly my Robbo mate, sorry, no such thing as a free lunch!
Cheers, WW

I've taught dozens of people to hover... now and again one gets it immediately. However, there's not a one I've ever met who can manage the entire pantheon of helicopter flying intuitively. The quickest study I've ever seen hovering a helicopter was a Harrier pilot... which should not be a surprise, really... the controls are simpler in a helicopter.
One expects yer ego's probably a bit too large to fit in a Robbie (even if you could persuade someone to let you try)... or most helicopters.

I am here reminded of a line from 'Fate Is The Hunter' by Ernest K. Gann when he is a young copilot flying the DC-2 and his first landing in the machine ever is rather good (by all accounts it was an extremely difficult airplane to land well, not that I would know), and he looks to his captain for approval.
His captain said simply:
"A whore is easy to meet."

I had a student on a demo flight about two weeks ago who hovered on all 3 controls in about 5 mins.
"First the cyclic, ok that was good, now try the collective, cool, put your feet on the pedals, nice."
It was that easy. I was impressed but at the same time I was never too far from the controls (obviously)! :)
No-one likes a big ego though and to say that it is easy is bulls#*t! There is always going to be a maneuver that kicks your ass for a while, like 180 autos or downwind quickstops, etc!
Buy a few lessons and then come back to tell us how you get on!!:ok:

Hand eye co-ordination
 

As for the original topic, I think you should re-mortgage the house like the rest of us and as for being picky about where you would want your freebie to take place I think you shot yourself in the foot.

anyway

Most amazing quick learner I have come across is a chap who owned a civil engineering company and had been operating Diggers, dozers, cranes etc etc day in, day out literally since the age of 12.
He got into a H300 and had but to be demonstrated the technique and bamm!! he had it!! Whats next he said!!!!!:eek: :D
His brain had been wired to multitask/multi ependage years ago.

I reckon an organ player would be a good bet as a likely fast learner/ hoverer!!

Even though my many hours fixed wing would have helped me, I actually think my years as a motorcyclist actually helped me more with the raw co-ordination side of Helicopter flying.

Now that is funny :)

If you're looking to pad your own ego... you frigging pay for it. Quite the set of balls to ask for a 100% free ride just to show up your mates!

Can we polish your shoes for you while you're up in the air? Wash your car perhaps?

Superman?
 

It's a bird....it's a plane....it' Super Adam_mc27.
What a hero :ugh:

Thread drift I know but... what ARE the controls in a Harrier? I've often wondered. Do they some how magically arrange things so the normal controls (stick/pedals/throttle) are actually working the thrusters to make all the right things happen? Or what?

n5296s

The man!
 

Adam Mc27,

have you noticed nobody here has suggested a return favour with a flight in a glider. It's because nobody is f***ing interested.
There would be no challenge for many helo pilots on this forum in jumping in a glider for the first time.
But despite that, would you care to continue the whole PPL(H) course until completion and then report back.
You can do it with me for a mere £20,000 for a 45 hour course. You would not need anymore hours than that obviously.

Cheers.

Whilst there are people who can pick up hovering very quickly, don't forget Guys, there's not just one of 'em but 16 :}

Really does make me think that the instructor was making you all feel good :)

Adam, why do you require your freebie helicopter ride to be so close to Basingstoke when you're prepared to get yerself all the way to RAF Kenley to instruct in gliders?

If you want to fly from Blackbushe, I'm sure you're aware that the school there flies Robinsons so you're asking an instructor to fly a non-Robbie all the way to pick you up, carry out training at the field and fly all the way back? You think that's a reasonable request for someone to possibly spend upwards of £400 in flying plus their own time for free for you to prove (or otherwise) that you can hover?

Cheers

Whirls

Hi everyone,

Let me start off by saying I don't mean to cause any offence but I feel that some of you may not like what I'm about to say.

Let me start off by telling you a bit about myself. I'm currently a Civilian......with a wife and daughter that like to spend incredible amounts of money, mainly between 2 separate shopping centres at either end of Glasgow.
The thing is that my wife reckons that men are hopeless at spending money quickly and that any monkey with half a brain could easily spend the net worth of a small African nation on a Saturday afternoon. She recently carried this out to a safe and good standard but noticed that I was a bit twitchy and sensitive, so she sent me home .She says that she knows at least 7 other people did the same thing on the same day and a further 8 people done it again 2 weeks later. They had a right laugh.
She really wants to try it again sometime soon and I can’t be arsed paying for it again so I would like to ask:
Is there anybody on here who would be willing to offer me some free money so that they can shop ‘til they drop at your cost?
If anyone would be prepared to do this then please E-mail at [email protected]



Anyway, kind regards to all you professionals, Tarman:E

Troll alert!
 

or maybe he's just a c*ck?

Amazing post Adam_mc27
I only fly model helis the big IC engined ones with full controls . Try learning to hover one in 7mins . A lesson is cheap though at £40 / hr

I'm writing to all three Services to tell them they've got it all wrong - stop that nonsense of aptitude testing, grading (RN and Army), UAS, EFT etc - just tell anyone who wants to fly in uniform that they have to get onto a VGS for a few years as an instructor, and then pitch up at Shawbury - think of the savings. Gordon Brown will be pleased... :ok:

Enough of the sarcasm.

Now, let's get serious. If you could all kindly line up at Blackbushe this weekend, Adam might like to choose which helicopter he would prefer.

Sorry I won't be there, I've got something else in mind.

I'm off to Silverstone to blag a quick go in an F1 car to show Jensen Button a thing or two.

No I think Adam has a point: When I get in my 3 litre Capri I really am King of the Road. It is very easy for me. No-one can touch me and women are so impressed.
So why are F1 drivers rewarded with admiration and million dollar salaries? I could do that. Automatic gearboxes, no junctions or traffic lights to worry about and all the traffic goes in the same direction. It's easy.
So can someone just lend me a Mclaren or Ferrari for a few laps just so I can show all you sceptics how easy it is? I don't mind leaving my front door and am prepared to travel 10kms, if there is a bus to a circuit too but no further.:{

Batman maybe? (earlier post removed....me thinks)

FROM: Dr Altaka Yurmani
Central Bank of Nigeria
Lagos, Nigeria
01-658-21-2658

TO: Heli Pilots


PPrune

Dear Sir / Madam:

I have been requested by the Nigerian National Petroleum Company to contact you for assistance in resolving a matter. The Nigerian National Petroleum Company has recently concluded a large number of contracts for oil exploration in the sub-Sahara region. The contracts have immediately produced moneys equaling US$40,000,000. The Nigerian National Petroleum Company is desirous of oil exploration in other parts of the world, however, because of certain regulations of the Nigerian Government, it is unable to move these funds to another region.

You assistance is requested as a non-Nigerian citizen to assist the Nigerian National Petroleum Company, and also the Central Bank of Nigeria, in moving these funds out of Nigeria.

If the funds can be transferred by you helicopter to a border town then your share on completion of the transfer will be 25% - US$10 million. You and your helicopter will be required to make the transfer flight look like a flying lesson and you will be expected to let our bank representatives fly the helicopter (under your control) and video the "lesson" for if government proof is needed.

If it will be possible for you to assist us, we would be most grateful. We suggest that you meet with us in person in Lagos, and that during your visit I introduce you to the representatives of the Nigerian National Petroleum Company, as well as with certain officials of the Central Bank of Nigeria.

Please call me at your earliest convenience at 18-467-4975. Time is of the essence in this matter; very quickly the Nigerian Government will realize that the Central Bank is maintaining this amount on deposit, and attempt to levy certain depository taxes on it.

Yours truly,

Prince Alyusi Islassis

Anybody who finds a squirrel easy to land on their first go HAS to be a legend.

Having said that, the hardest thing I found about gliding was holding my bladder

We call them "marketing flights" not TIFS. If your instructor is doing a good job you should be left with a warm fuzzy feeling inside that makes you want to depart with $40k.

Adam, if you do get your flight please video it and post the results on here.

Good on you mate if you managed to Hover,take off and land a AS350 in 15 minutes with no previous experience.

But I think this may be a bit of a wind up, good one big fella!

Somewhat. There's an additional lever on the control quadrant that tilts the nozzles from 0 degrees (go forward like an airplane) to 98 degrees (make the bad guy overshoot in a dogfight for the purposes of vaporization). 90 degrees is used for hovering. Other angles are used for V/STOL at various runway lengths. So, that's the push the airplane up in the air part sorted.
There are also attitude control nozzles in the nose, tail, and wing tips. Those use bleed air (I believe) and are controlled by the stick and pedals... so that's the magic part. It's all here, really...
How the Harrier hovers

Friend of mine is a USMC Harrier pilot and was the commanding officer of a primary (non-Harrier) fixed-wing training squadron a few years back. I worked across the field instructing in helicopters. Took him on his first flight in a helicopter as part of his professional development (and because it's fun)... he did quite well hovering, vertical take offs and landings, though he was working very hard at it. He wanted me very close to the controls, but he did fine and I don't remember having to take them from him at all. I did have to tell him that it wasn't quite like the Harrier in that you don't cut the power from about 10' up and bang down like you do with the Harrier, to save both our spines and keep the skids down below the fuselage where we like them, though I'd seen enough Harrier landings to not get caught out by that.

Since I'd already done a few hundred hours in a T-34 (what his then squadron flew), I wanted something with a little more oomph... and anyway, I figured that flying a Harrier couldn't be very difficult, so I asked him if he could get one of his old mates to bring one the 600 or so miles from the nearest squadron so I could get a free flight... because you see there were another 15 fellows with whom I was competing for bragging rights as ace of the base...:ugh::p

In the end, he bought me lunch at the club and exaggerated effusively to anyone who would listen about what a terrific experience it was and how "those helicopter guys have so much fun it's almost indecent..." I chewed my sandwich thoughtfully, smiled a lot, basked in the attention and of course silently agreed... it's good when you get to show your friends what you do... and they think, rightly or wrongly, that you're rather good at it.:ok:

I suggest..hydraulics off..."Your controls"....now lets see how "easy" that is for a first timer...

KW :ok:

P.S. Even us old fixed wing chaps were raised rotary...heh heh

Well ... not so fast there. I'd suggest that an aero tow might challenge a helo pilot a bit, and remember that every landing in a glider is an EOL. However, as with helos, these things are meant to be operated by humans, so almost anyone can learn to do it. I am wondering what took our boy so long to learn to hover - I taught myself in 2 minutes! :rolleyes:

Maybe he should try and help out "hogg get away from that thing!" Like to see him in it himself. As whirls says instructor doing all the work making it look easy, if indeed it ever happened at all. As for a free flight well enough posts already to cover that :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

It took me about 3 hours to solo the glider, and 20 to solo the heli. When I soloed the glider it was no big deal. When I soloed the heli I was, to put it mildly, nervous. Yeah, aero-tows take a bit of getting used to, and early release is a bit of a surprise when you're used to powered airplanes.

But it isn't the same league as far as learning curve goes.

n5296s

I've never seen such handbag flailing, shame on you!!! He may well have hovered in less time than your own fragile memories allowed, some people have the touch,you're like a rotary of Harpies. How dare you disrespect a humble crab's request for free flying and requirements that you should bring it to one's doorstep..... Mate, congratulations!! I haven't seen such contempt before, if you're going to post again make sure you include the words RAF and freebie in the same sentence, so much fun; good luck on finding your free 'Glory ride':D:E:mad:..:ok:

And, of course there's the winch launch! I did my first winch launch after about 20 or so aerotows and it scared the **** out of me. :eek: :eek:

VH-XXX
I like the sound of the warm fuzzy feeling and departing with 40K, the only feeling I got when learning to hover was a real sweaty feeling and wondering why I was parting with large chunks of cash to scare myself & instructor.
Not telling how long it took to hover, but is was a fair bit longer than 15 min

On your next flight be sure to ask the instructor to let you have the controls slope operations or perhaps a 180 auto if you're feeling real good! I think that will surely change your mind.

I am dismayed
 

at the general attitude of all you guys who have jumped down Adam's throat.

You don't know him, he asked a perfectly reasonable question, and it was all stated without malice or hidden agenda.

How about some common decency, and manners?

It may have been a naive question (but I don't think so) but Adam is a pilot just like you and me.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

And no, I have never heard of, met, talked to Adam in my life.

Big Ls -- a R22 and R44 pilot and not an instructor so obviously I cannot help with the hover challenge.

PS. If you want to come as a passenger for 15 minutes, Adam, you will be welcome. No charge. and hopefully you wont think too badly of all helicopter pilots.

The downside of PPrunes popularity... this and the NASCAR/Indy whatever post. :}

Whilst no doubt 'adam' should appreciate your generosity, i beleive the communication which ultimately led to this post should be made clear for all to see.

please read the comments below for the video. My sinceret apologies to those in the video for 'airing old news/hurts'



Apologies to those who see my cut and paste skills as 'behind' the curve it took me a bit longer too hover...

Decency would have been at least offering to buy lunch for whoever was willing to flush about $1000 down the drain, so this guy can thump his chest in front of his pals. Manners would be saying he's willing to drive out to you, not ask you to fly the helicopter out to him.

There is nothing reasonable in his request.