Aerodynamik

You are repeating yourself and quite needlessly, we've already established that:

a) Civvies bring different skills and experience
b) Some (by far the minority) very experienced officers do not make good air observers

To be honest I don't think that civvies recruited directly is a great idea, some relevant experience in a policing role is vital.

And, believe me, a 500hr PPL could not do a perfectly good job they would spend most of their time concentrating on the fact that their brains were screaming in abject terror and trying to find a way out of their heads - especially at night and/or in poor wx.

Zorab

They're clearly just doing it to wind you up, now.

As another outsider looking in, I would be worried about a 'civvie' observer without several years of experience dealing with people in dark and potentially dangerous council estates (for example) sending ground officers in directions that may endanger them just to try and resolve the issue on the ground (possibly because this could be the thin end of the wedge, and they'll start giving the Obs targets to reach to justify the spend on the AC)

Also, paarmo is living in the past a little bitThe 15% limit was lifted in (I think) 2007 and you can now contribute 100% of your salary.

Obviously you could only do this if you were working as a hobby (or had a military pension :p )

Paarmo wrote:
Crab is a jocular and friendly term that the Army and Royal Navy use when referring to the members of the junior service, ie the RAF. [email protected] is a member of said junior service.

They in return, keeping up the spirit of inter-sevice rivaly, refer to us as Pongoes and Fishheads respectively. :ok:

Edit: that "invalid hash" should read "crab at SSAvn.co.uk". :ugh:

If yer lucky...:E

So whats a REMF then ?:}

Er...the type of person who thinks civilianisation of uniformed jobs is a good
idea?:)









Abzorba69 - sorry I got your handle wrong:E

The term "Crab" arose out of the fact that during WW II, service personnel were issued with a blue fatty paste to smear on those regions affected by an attack of "crabs" - for those unaware of the disease, it's easier to post a link - Crabs Sexually Transmitted Disease

The (RAF uniform!) blue paste was known as "Crab fat", as described in the contents of a POW First Aid Kit The term Crab Fat Blue was coined by the other services, common parlance reducing the whole service to "Crabs". Subsequent phases such as "Fly Navy, Sail Army, Walk Sideways" have sprung from the epithet!:ok:

Canvas Bra @ - your dyslexic/anagramatic apology accepted!

zorab64,

WWII? I believe that the term dates back to the First World War, when the RAF was formed 1st April 1918 and issued their uniform the colour of crab-fat grey. The term was already in use from c.1910 to describe the grey paint used on warships in the Royal Navy, but as you state, it derives from the colour of the ointment used by the RN for genital lice :yuk:

Sometimes we accumulate all sorts of useful information ;)

Thank you John - I have no reason to doubt the earlier time-line (than I had been led to believe) and will be pleased to update my databank of crab-facts as a result!:ok:

I wish I'd never asked now. I only thought it meant civilians are really brave or something similar.
Hustler you misread the post on pension contributions I think. I meant that 15% is what the Government can force you to pay not the total overall contributions you can put into the scheme. It does not conform to any other system for various reasons mainly the age at which the pension is payable and various family benefits.

The Government can FORCE me to pay 15% of my salary? My god is there no end to their meddling in our lives? And to think I only pay 7.5% of my salary . . .

The magical figure of 15% could refer to the maximum allowed by HM Revenue and Customs (boo hiss) that you may contribute into a pension plan.

I was led to believe that the crab ointment was the same colour and consistency as the Light Blue Blanco Polish that the RAF used occasionally on their Webbing Equipment.

Funny old thing, Once I asked the assembled throng of crabs and WAFUs (fish-heads) Sirs, why don't you polish your Flying Boots? Answer in chorus - Because boot polish is flammable!

REMF = Rear Echelon MoFo = derogatory term for someone in a military unit who is deployed but never faces the enemy, also could be a member of a unit that doesn't deploy.

I also learnt from wikipedia that Pongo is the genus for Orang-Utans. Thats probably where it came from!

What Limits - I was always led to believe that "Pongos" resulted from the Army going to war in grubby fox-holes etc & not getting adequate opportunity to wash. No specific criticism implied, just a statement of fact that "everywhere the Army goes, the pong goes"!

Readers should also be aware that the term "fish-head" is used by the Naval Aviator for non-flying, specifically ship-driving, officers of the Navy, whereas the jocular term for the aviators by fish-heads is WAFU, as in "Wet & F***ing Useless"! WAFUs never like being referred to as Fish-heads, as an invitation to the bridge of a ship was often a pre-cursor to an unwanted interview with the Captain - WAFUs prefer the safety of their flight deck, normally out of bounds to anyone (especially fish-heads) not connected with their confusing, complicated, noisy and dangerous business of flying . . . and sunbathing!! :ok:

With apologies for digressing from the thread.

One only has to read posts on other threads by Paarmo to realise he is ignorant of many things, in fact I believe may be a "security operative" at Teeside. I find the ignore button a wonderful invention. It keeps trolls out of your life far better than any Harry Potter style spell.

Sir Niall

Aeroman. I am not looking for respect, just expressing a point of view.
Demented. If I am ignorant then please tell me where I have gone wrong. Is it the equipment on the aircraft or the fact that the Police are the service of last resort and are the only ones willing and able to go into dark and dangerous places. If we can't count on the Police to do this who are we gonna call? Ghostbusters?.
By the way stick to observing from the air because you will never make a Detective.Assume nothing and you will always be right.
Police on the ground as a service of last resort and civilians assisting in the air. A natural fit.

Getting back to the original post - looks like things are getting pretty hot there ready for the new guy ! :eek:

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/376...elicopter.html

I hear that one force has decided to deploy its observers on the streets if the aircraft is down for more than three hours. The pilot is left to man the phones and in the event of the UEO being absent he is expected to make a decision on calling in mutual aid :hmm:

Droopy,

Civilian Obs at some bases, civilian pilots and civilian pilots acting as DUEO's (I do believe that Cambridgeshire had a civilian UEO for quite some years).

This all seems to me to strengthen paarmo's argument for getting the bobbies out on the street and totally civilianising air support.

Fly for Fun - you have the right end of the stick . . . so long as one realises that:

1. a smattering of civvie Obs (rather than complete civilianisation) is a good compromise, and

2. civvie pilots are invariably ex-military and, as a result, have had plenty of experience in dealing with significantly more difficult decisions than those required in a Police environment, whether it's the flying part or the DUEO substitute.

Cambridgeshire did have a civvie UEO for a few years - but he was the retired original Policeman UEO, until blots appeared on the copy-book! I believe they then employed another civvie (retired police plank pilot?) for a short while while they "analysed his skills"! My understanding is that this resulted in Cambs taking shelter under the Essex PAOC umbrella, who still have a proper Police UEO! :ok:

I'm afraid I can't agree with paarmo on the total civilianisation, however, as previously mentioned.

Errr.... no.

I'll wager that there are more 'civvi' pilots out there than ex-mil types!

If you are narrowing it right down to the police aviation world, speaking from where I am we have a 50/50 police line pilot split.

Is that another term for Transgender?

Lol.

Given the clear line of discussion here, something you need to tell us WL?

Just to clarify - I am of the belief that, in the UK, the majority of Police pilots are ex-military, albeit that they are regarded as "civvie". Certainly of the 25+ in this region, I only know of 2 or 3 with a non-military background.

Not to dwell on actual numbers Zorab; Given that, lets say 'most' Police pilots are ex-military, how can we take advantage of that, given the incident at West Mids? ;)

Droopy

Good to hear you keep your ear to the ground - just the sort of thing to tempt you back!! :E I,m also sure you know that not all 'civvie pilots' are ex-mil ;) AND all ex-mil pilots are civvies!!

Make a decision!! now that would be a novelty!!

SS Following on from your comments in the W Mids thread, but keeping on track re the civvie discussion here, I very much align myself with most of your comments both here & there, and share your concerns at those who are pleased to carp after the horse has bolted. However, I'm not sure any Police Force (who won't arm more than their own Firearms Officers with Taser), would contemplate any form of weapon in the hands of ex-military pilots, for the purpose of defending their aircraft, whether they're directly emloyed civvies or not!

Notwithstanding that, I know that some would jump at the chance to fit auto-fire gatling guns to the rooftops before you could say "knife" - that's those who have no idea what all this hindsight-security costs the taxpayer, of course! :eek:

Parmaannn whoever you are, having read through this thread I have decided your weird and I am amazed folk have had superb patience listening to you, congrats on your 15 minutes of fame:D

As of last summer, full time Police helicopter pilots were made up as follows:

Ex Military: 97. Civilian(ie not Ex Mil) 22, of which I think 2 were ladies.

The ex Mil were split as follows: Army 56, RAF 11, RN 19, Royal Marine 11.

The numbers only include those employed fulltime at units, and not floaters/relieve pilots.

To my knowledge it's only one lady now.

According to What Limits earlier, we may be back up to 2 shortly ;)

I thought the police were civilian any way
 

Quite illuminating to read your post.
Do the police not see themselves as civilians, if not civilians then what??

MightyGem

Hands, Time, Too Much!!:}

Not really. I do it every couple of years just to keep track of those that I know. And for occasions like this.

SS the more the merrier.

Why the interest - are you looking for a tranny vocation? :p

No. Although it's just a play on words really. They are not considered "Civilians", they are "Crown Servants" (or Public Servants if you like). They are "Citizens" though.

From the Oxford English Dictionary -

civilian
• noun - a person not in the armed services or the police force.
• adjective - relating to a civilian.
— ORIGIN Old French civilien, in the phrase droit civilien ‘civil law’

I guess as a transgender, ex-military civilian, Captain Doctor, with a disability and native ancestry, they would have to promote me straight to Chief Constable.

OK, you're in! :ok:

Volrider. Weird? Me? I think you should look closer to home. Some of the contributors to this Post may have to own up to that.
As to 15 minutes of fame. I think that 15 minutes is not nearly enough in this multi layered media age.
I see that you have nothing to bring to the debate apart from the age old, "I don't agree with you therefore I will ignore you" Syndrome. It's a pity really because the people who want to retain Spanish Practices on this post need allies , not snipers.