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Cleveland Police go it alone!!!!!!!!
:ok:Common sense from one police force at last!!:Dhttp://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/te...4229-20965284/
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Somehow I don't think this is the end of this story. It'll be interesting to see what next from N'bria and Durham.
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Excellent
Best Wishes |
Bloody 'Ell....
Glad to see that someone's got the stones to do it. Just hope they can find the dough. MS |
A very brave decision and one that must suceed, well done and good luck:ok:
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Good Decision, Well done. Nice to see that you've managed to retain some senior officers in possession of good old fashioned leadership and common sense. :D
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A good decision for policing and I hope it gets the right backing from the brass and pollies to make it a success.
Get stuck in. :D:D:D |
Common sense from one police force at last!! |
OF course, if Cleveland are going to go it alone and no longer contribute to the Northumbrian end, the question now is, can Northumbria/Durham afford to continue without them???
Is there a senior officer now beavering away on a career enhancing powerpoint presentation to show that it can/can't be done? :\ |
I concur, with a hearty "Well done!" to the CC responsible for his foresight in insisting on continued air support. :ok:
I wonder how long it will be before an adjacent CC goes cap in hand asking for a little cross-border help? |
Established by March 2009 !!!
Noticed in the press recently that Cleveland plan to have their own ASU operational by next March. What kind of time frame will it take for them to get the PAOC in place and briefly what does it entail.
R1Tamer |
Latest costs published
Re the costs, some new information has just been released by the CC from the small Cleveland Police force.
Information Courtesy of Cleveland Police, and the CPA Councillor McLuckie (£100k pa expenses man) ; 3.1 In September 2008, Cleveland Police Authority placed an order for a new helicopter to replace our present aircraft. The new helicopter is a Eurocopter EC135 P2i which was part of a bulk purchase of 6 aircraft. The specification of each of these aircraft was designed by bringing experts together from police aviation and procurement. The subsequent aircraft were all then identical which will save costs over their lifetime when it comes to any alterations that are required. 3.2 Following the acceptance process in December, the aircraft was finally accepted on the 4th January 2011 and arrived in Cleveland the same day. The new aircraft is now fully operational in the Force area. This is a major success story for the Force and the Police Authority. 1 3.3 In respect of the payment schedule, Cleveland Police have now paid all sums to Eurocopter apart from a small retention portion which will be paid in 12 months time assuming no issues develop. 3.4 Cleveland have received a guaranteed trade in for our existing helicopter of £1million and if it subsequently is resold for more than this amount, then Cleveland would receive 50% of this profit, less any transactional costs. In the present market it is unknown if we will receive any extra funds from the sale. 3.5 Cleveland Police were awarded a 40% grant towards the purchase of this new helicopter which has been received in full. Implications 4.1 Financial The table below shows the payments made for the helicopter: Payment Date Amount Deposit (10%) April 2009 £518k Home Office Grant Received July 2010 £1,596k ‘Accepted’ payment July 2010 £3.6m ‘Delivery’ Payment Jan 2011 £964k ‘Trade-in’ of current helicopter Dec 2010 / Jan 2011 £1m Retention payment January 2012 £0.1m = £5,182,000 4.2 The fluctuations in the exchange rate of Sterling versus both the Euro and US Dollar had the potential to impact significantly on the overall cost of the helicopter purchase. However rates have proven more stable and so this has not adversely affected the overall costs. 4.3 There are no further financial implications arising from this report. 4.4 Diversity and Equal Opportunities There are no diversity or equal opportunities implications arising from this report. 4.5 Human Rights Act There are no Human Rights Act implications arising from this report. 4.6 Sustainability There are no sustainability implications arising from this report. 4.7 Risk There are no risk implications arising from this report. 2 3 5 Conclusions 5.1 The purchase of a new helicopter is a major success for a relatively small force. The helicopter we now own and operate is the most advanced in the world and will have a major benefit to Policing in Cleveland. Sean Price Chief Constable http://www.clevelandpa.org.uk/admin/...Helicopter.pdf ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And this is the same Chief Constable who is in the process of sacking 230 experienced cops! :ouch: |
Sounds like they need some Squirrels or Jetrangers in order to meet the budget requirements?
Or just eliminate helicopters entirely. It's a tough choice when you have no money! :ooh: |
£7,778,000 that's nearly £8 million!
I hadn't seen the latest report from Chief Constabule Price regarding Cleveland's new EC135 G-CPAS up here in smoggy, but after using my large calcualtor to crunch those numbers from that web link, I make that nearly £8 MILLION with the grant and trade in against the old bucket G-NESV included to pay for the latest flymo.
Is that the cheapest deal the home office could get out of Eurocopter for the new 6 ship deal? I thought by buying in bulk the cost came down? £7,778,000 Thats a lot of Peso's in anyones money! There goes my council tax bill for next year. All Paid for by Cleveland's poor pensionaires but operated around the country by NPAS and BTP free of charge. I bet Ms Tilton of the shiney dress attire could have offered a better discount especially if Joep was about meeting and greeting. How much does a new MD 902 Police equipped Explorer come in at these days? anyone down at PAS know? If its cheaper than 8 million quid I would have thought she would have cornered the police market with her NOTARS. I'm neither pro 135 or 902 but am a little concerned at the public money being spent up here in smoggy cleveland. :hmm: |
You was robbed at that price Mr Price
Props, you and your clan were robbed, that Mr Price and the other fella the police authority councillor McDuckie or whatever he's called up there, must have very deep pockets paying £5,182,000 in cash for his latest must have 135 :eek:
I'll ask around Staverton when I'm next in, unless Henk is online and can answer the question ---- how much is a police 902 Exploder these days????????? I'll go 50/50 and say that Henk will do one for you at £4 mill. |
I make it 2.5 mill, I think thats pretty cheap for a fully loaded EC135 ready to fly!
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Limits, I'm with you, I make it £2,486,000 paid so far with £100,000 held back for 12 months. That's a good deal, I think.
Even without trade-in and home office grant it's reasonable given current exchange rates (and almost £3,000,000 less than props stopped suggested). |
Props....Just because you add the Cleveland figures up to nearly 8 million don't be under the illusion that all 6 cost that amount. As pointed out by others that is not an entirely correct figure but I can assure you that those who fixed the price against currncy fluctuations spent nowhere near that figure. As for 902s .. after a full and fair procurement process the best value aircraft was chosen.
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And the prettiest.
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Sums
I know it was late when I was number crunching so will try again.
These are the figures as given by CC Price on the Cleveland website of the cash paid from what I can see. £0518,000 deposit paid. £3,600,000 payment made. £0964,000 delivery payment. =£5,082,000 without trade in, or retention payment. £1,000,000 trade in. £1,596,000 Home Office grant =£2,596,000 So from what I can read between those lines is that Cleveland Police actually paid £5,082,000 cash without the next £100k retention payment to be handed over. What was the actual price paid by others? How much is a new police role equipped EC135 - £5, 6 or 7 million? Whats a normal 135 cost without the kit on, I thought they were at least £5m? |
Job at NPAS
Props
With mental skills of an enormity never seen before in police circles can I suggest you are either already part of NPAS or highly sort after by that team. Good on yer.:confused: |
Props, I'm going to go slowly, here.
If you give someone £5082000 and they give you £1000000 then you've spent £4082000. With me so far? Okay, now someone else gives you £1596000 and you've actually got £2486000 less than when you started. See? So, while a new role equipped 135 might come in at around £5 million, it cost the police Authority half that in cash. |
You probably have a couple of years of repairs under warranty, so running costs of "old v new" may well be less.
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Props, you do realise that the T1 had to go, the CAA dictated all Police A/C were to be SPIFR. Can't remember by what exact date, so Cleveland and the other T1/P1 users got together to buy in bulk, therefore saving money.
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JAFO thats big print lad
JAFO, I can read normal size print thank you, even if I dont work on the west coast.
My point if you had missed it WAS.... Why would Clevelands CC Mr Price, PAY eurocopter £5m+ which IS what HIS REPORT actually states if it was as cheap as you think? A friend at HQ up at Ladgate Lane tells me that is the figure that Cleveland coughed up. The dates of THE "PAYMENTS MADE" are listed for all to see on the Chiefs report. (that bold print is for JAFO) ;) The "trade in and HO grant" figures are also listed, but I didnt include them as I presumed the 135 must have cost more than the £5+ million ACTUALLY PAID out. My question to anyone "who may know these things" IS.....how much is a role equipped police EC135P2 which is what Cleveland purchased? I know all about the T1 and why it was put out to pasture, and it wasnt because it was dog rough at the end. If I was paying for a new car/helicopter, I wouldnt be giving someone extra cash which was listed, only for them to return it later....catch my drift JAFO and I'm typing as slowly as I can ;) As for working for NPAS, I'm open to offers as long as it doesnt invlove anymore 12 hour night shifts up at Sleepy Hollow without a comfy bed as those office chairs were not very comfortable at 3am up in the north east, and the ghosts of Hangar 1 kept everyone awake as well! |
Props,
I feel that you should read the CC's document a little more carefully: the list is of "Payments", which tabulates both payments out and payments in. Poor compilation of the figures in the report, I agree, but Cleveland have (as stated clearly by many already) purchased a new machine for a capital outlay by the Force of only £2.486m. The guaranteed trade in of £1m may become more, and the Force will receive 50% of any amount above this figure less transactional costs, which would further reduce the £2.486m of the purchase. |
Senior Pilot, thank you for that.
I'll have another word with my contact up at HQ tomorrow as they said McLuckie is a fan of PFI but even he had to stump up the cash this time. I'm still curious as to how much a new 135 police role equipped a/c is from Macs, I mean EC uk? I'm going for a lie down now its well past my bed time with all these millions of 00000's and the extra large print I've been looking at ;) NPAS let me know if you need anyone who is good with a calcualtor :ok: |
Roll up roll up, £1 a go around the ground.
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the scenic HLS
And this is Clevelands seaside HLS, sun optional :cool:
http://www.cleveland.police.uk/_asse...pterphoto6.JPG |
The boro will do anything to pull the fans in these days |
That pic seems to have grown in size!
Girders eh? Ah yes Iron Bru, I've heard of it. From what the local paper says, he may have to dust off that CV as McLuckie the lead councillor on the CPA says that they ae looking very closely at the air operations unit with the latest gov cutbacks, so he may be able to add that little snippet to his CV. :confused: |
Speed dating at Cleveland CPA event!
This was the latest idea from Cleveland Police at their stake holder event.
Speed Dating! I wonder if they brought in a consultant to dream that one up? Air Support got £940 Look for the 11.20am event. 2010-11 Stakeholder Event |
Props
I'm sorry, I can't tell you how much it cost any more times than I have already. I've lost the will to try; you really do have all the numbers that you need. |
JAFO, I would give up now, he is a lost cause.
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Props is a gentleman of the avaition world and digs at him are below the belt especially if the poster is not a commercial pilot himself. :=
I read the same cleveland report and came up with the same numbers but then noticed the part about the Home office paying 40% towards the purchase in the text. Its badly written or McLuckie has paid over the odds? Props has probably been told by his source up in the ivory towers (LZ hq) that its costing Cleveland over five million this year including the £2 million a year unit running costs. We've both been there pacing the floor day after day waiting for the chase of the century to come in, but ended up putting the lettle on instead, along with about 40 other bored pilots who have left both north east offices. They should have kept the Islander, at least it was paid for even if a little loud :} |
Some interesting pdf's about NPAS and Cleveland
Just noticed the following PDF's which include articles on NPAS some may not know about. Cleveland are aware it will cost them a lot more money for such a small force with a new a/c.
16 February 2011 Report of the Chief Constable to the Chair and Members of the Strategic Air Support Panel 16th February 2011 Executive & Presenting Officer: Mr David Pickard, Assistant Chief Constable (Crime & Operations) Status: For information National Air Support Service Update 1. Purpose 1.1 To update Members on the latest developments with the proposals for a National Air Support Service. 2. Recommendations 2.1 That Members note the contents of the report. 3. Reasons 3.1 A briefing document was presented to Chief Constables Council on 15th October 2010 in respect of a National Police Air Service (NPAS) and this was supported by most Chief Constables. On the 20th October Chief Constable Marshall presented some elements of NPAS to Unit Executive Officers (UEO’s) and other representatives from every unit in the Country. At this presentation it was reported that there were six Chief Constables who expressed reservations. 3.2 Since these meetings there has been little further information available. There has been one further meeting, chaired by the NPIA, with representatives of the North East forces on 24th November. At the meeting were representatives from Newcastle, Cleveland, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire and Humberside. 3.3 The NPIA reported that there had been a lot of concern from many forces regarding the financial data within the paper that had been presented to Chief Constables Council. Much of the meeting was spent trying to explain how the financial assumptions had been made. It was also reported that it was now very likely that South Yorkshire would retain their helicopter, when it had originally been identified to be withdrawn. 3.4 During the meeting the NPIA requested that forces start to look at joint pilotage and maintenance contracts. It was reported that there would be no savings in the North until other aircraft had been withdrawn from the South East of the Country, or if some savings could be made from the use of joint contracts. The NPIA confirmed that we would need to pay the higher identified cost (as detailed in the paper to Chief Constables’ Council) until at least 2016. 3.5 In January ACC Pickard met with Chief Constable Marshall and was provided with a further update regarding the national picture and it was suggested there was now less opposition to the plans than there had been previously. It was also agreed that NPIA would visit Cleveland Police and go through the financial data with the Force to try and explain the position. 3.6 At present it is still believed that by joining the National Air Service, we would be paying £535,000 more than our present budget, for the first 4 or 5 years, and then £300,000 more than our present budget after that. It is also still the intention that we would operate only 20 hours per day, with cover from other forces in the North East. 3.7 This finance meeting has been arranged for the 2nd February. A further meeting involving finance representatives from all the North East forces, together with the NPIA is scheduled for the 24th February. It is understood there may be some further detail presented to Chief Constables Council in March. 3.8 The position nationally at this time is that it is understood that only two regions will be joining the National Air Support Service at the start and these are Central and the North West. Other regions have stated they cannot join at this time for a number of reasons, such as the forthcoming Olympic Games. NPIA would like to see the North East join, but this appears dependent partly on the outcome of the finance meetings. 4. Implications 4.1 Financial There are significant financial implications arising from this report, if the current proposals, as outlined above, go ahead. There are no further financial implications arising from this report to report to Members. 4.2 Diversity and Equal Opportunities There are no diversity or equal opportunities implications arising from this report. 4.3 Human Rights Act There are no Human Rights Act implications arising from this report. 4.4 Sustainability There are no sustainability implications arising from this report. 4.5 Risk There are substantial risk implications arising from this report in connection with the financial risk, the reputation risk and also the operational cover issue. 5. Conclusions 5.1 The plans for a National Air Support Service are still being progressed and it is still the sponsor’s aim of having a fully operational national unit in place by April 2012. The aims of the scheme appear laudable and with the present financial pressures there could be the opportunity to make significant savings for the Force. However with the current understood financial proposal, this would actually significantly increase the cost to Cleveland. Sean Price Chief Constable 3.7 The obvious immediate benefits of the new aircraft have been the fact that it operates higher so is less intrusive to the public. It is already starting to have a bigger role in surveillance operations. The effectiveness on tasks is increased as we are able to provide better quality images. Due to our height and the quality of the camera, we are often able to see several incidents in different areas without changing our location. Over the next few months officers will become more proficient using the technology and also in the best ways to operate the aircraft, which will no doubt lead to a more effective service to the Force. 3.8 The unit had a 20% cut in the flying hours which was reported at the last meeting. We are managing to still provide a first class service to the Force, but at times have to manage demand by regular dialogue with officers present at incidents. 3.9 The revenue budget for this year is very tight as we have had a number of unexpected items to pay for. It is still expected to come in slightly over budget, but this will be covered within the carry-forward from last year which was requested for this purpose. 3.10 Appendix A details the performance statistics and flying hours. The use of the aircraft has resulted in the equivalent of 116,021 officer hours being saved across the Force during October to December. This would equate to a cost saving of approximately £794,192 compared to officers on the ground being deployed to the same incidents. However, it should be noted that by using the aircraft we are able to undertake a greater number of searches, many of which we would be unable to undertake without the helicopter. |
A new 135P2+ costs between 5.2 and 5.6 million fully equipped dependent on whether the final cost was protected against currency fluctuations:suspect:
Some forces warranted against euro fluctuations and others failed to do so. |
especially if the poster is not a commercial pilot himself. := |
£7,778,000 that's nearly £8 million! |
Cleveland Police area covers approximately 230 square miles and has a population of over 554,000.
How the hell can they justify spending all that money on a helicopter? |
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