I am sure this comes into it, some would choose to live by a motorway, some would not. I obviously would not! The problem in this case is that the noise was "hidden" from me until after we had moved in.

You must be joking, but you are sort of correct, I am unfortunately stuck in this house most the day, not through my own choice. The area does has a lot of retired people, will go some way to explaining why there is so much hatred towards heli noise around here.

I must state, this is hatred towards the noise not the heli per se, if heli's were quieter I doubt I would even be here, I cannot get rid of the noise even with all windows closed (which is difficult in this stupidly hot summer we are having!)

I wish I had the confidence in the industry to tell you, but I cannot help thinking that there are some on this board who would delight in making my life more miserable because I dare to speak out against what you obviously enjoy doing.

Sadly my experience of the industry so far has been bad, nothing but buck passing and denial, You may say this is because I have not got what I wanted. I have asked every person I have had contact with about this whether they would find it personally acceptable (MP's, CAA, enviro health, various heli ports, 2 operators). They have all declined to comment, what does that say?

Sadly selling the house is not an option, and belive me I would take it f it was. The house has some terrible legal issues which mean that I am here until the day I die or go bankrupt, at this rate I am not sure which will come first. Not my choice but the hand life decided to deal me.

So adding to the stress of a terrible financial and legal position is the unforseen noise issue, which my wife and I did everything reasonable before we moved in to avoid.

Maybe some of you have a little more understanding of my position, even if you dont agree with it. Which was the whole point of posting here.

low-and-loud,

You will help yourself enormously on this Forum if you can wean away from a distrustful attitude. We welcome the fact that you have come here for assistance, but you are still replying with this sort of statement

ShyTorque has identified fairly well the area that you come from, and has given a good summary of what may be the problem. It is obviously up to you to accept the advice or not, but a better indication of the general area will do you no harm. It's not as if you are being asked to identify your house address, just the village would help!

No one here would even bother to come near your place out of spite, but may well be able to help by avoiding it if you are a bit more forthcoming. Since you have logged and photographed helicopters overflying, are you able to identify them as civil or military? Do they follow a set route, eg flying to and from a particular direction? This would help lend substance to ShyTorque's theory that they are flying via a navigation beacon and/or a reporting point: or even that you are at that reporting point :eek:

Trust is a two way street, and we can't do much unless you trust us to help you. It will be to everyone's advantage to do so :ok:

Gee thanks. You really believe that pilots have got nothing better to do than actually find your house and fly over it to annoy you? Oh please. You want advice but it cannot be given unless we know your location. As for "dare" to speak, I hope that is just a poor choice of words :}.

Yes, we enjoy flying but the very vast majority of pilots here are not hobby pilots but are doing it for a living; a job. Most were in the military at some time or another and now earn a crust doing the only thing they were trained to do.

No matter, it sounds like ShyT is right and you live by said radio beacons.

What is it you do want? Unfortunately you have bought a house which you cannot sell and from which you can't escape that is on a heliroute/VRP for Battersea. You can't identify the helicopters. You won't disclose your location. What do you now expect anyone here to say?

It says that they are (apart from your MP) working in an official capacity and it's not their place to comment on what they would personally find acceptable or not.

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
To change the things I can
And the wisdom to know the difference

If you cannot change your situation, then letting what is a transient noise affect you so much, will affect your health. It IS a transient noise, it doesn't last long but the more YOU let it affect you, the more you will suffer. The human brain can quite easily block out sounds that it doesn't want to hear but you need to allow your brain to ignore the sound. I suspect that your difficulties with personal finances is manifesting itself in this helicopter hatred and that is where you have decided to channel your frustrations and anger. Pop-psych, I know but I thin you are going to have to find a way of dealing with your current lot rather than trying to fight it.

Cheers

Whirls

An attitude that has has been obtained by trying to get some answers/action via official routes, I am here because I realise that pilots are normal humans like me and hopefully have a more human attitude than the system which does not care.......

Mostly civil I think, I am going to post some photos later to see if some of you guys can help me with ID so I can contact operator direct (I know how to get contact details from reg no, my problem is getting the reg no as already stated).

I was already certain that I was on some kind of route, probably between 2 beacons (or on one). They mainly fly east/west over me, rarely north/south. I suspect they are travelling from M25 to H7 which gives you all a pretty good idea where I live.

No, I dont really belive that they will, but once you know where I am, if some anti anti decides to annoy me there is NOTHING I can do about it, I am just being cautious because of the possible knock ons.......

You have summed it up very well. Unfortunate is a word I would use, maybe tragic (the whole situation, not just the heli's which are the final straw....) You pretty much know my location now (M25 to H7 - Ashtead/Epsom)

"Letting" is too much of a simplification. It is impossible to block it out. The only thing that works is loud music which is not how I want to live my life. Transient in the technical sense, and yes it does not last for long but it is so loud, so random and so frequent at times. Some helis are a lot worse than others and hopefully if I post pics of the bad ones we can make some progress.

It has already negatively affected my health, I am currently undergoing couselling for it and the financial/legal issues. I fully understand that the heli problem is made worse by my personal situation but we are all human and react to the pressures of life. The worse the pressure the worse the reaction usually.

I think I have managed to get you all to understand what it is like to be overflown like this, and please dont forget that I am not the only person in this area who feels like this, there are hundreds of us and the numbers are rising.

I also get that this is your job, and you need the money like all of us, but at what cost to others? I am not criticising your choice of job but you must realise that what you do sometimes has negative effects on others (as well as many good things, especially air ambulance etc....) Which is where the discussion of the purpose of the flights needs to come in, not something I really want to get into.

I do appreciate the time you have all taken to criticise and support me and I hope that your opinion of the anti has not been made worse, we are not all nutters who take pot shots although sometimes I have felt it is my only option :-)

Can you tell me exactly where the beacons are in my area?

So you already had an objection to helicopter noise, above other noises. Or did you not? If so, what steps, i.e. "everything reasonable" did you take to avoid the noise problem? Or do you mean "did everything reasonable before we moved in to avoid" your financial and legal position?

I ask because you say this ongoing noise occurs every day and yet you also said that you spent many hours at the house before buying it. If so, the noise must have been apparent at the time and it must therefore have been obvious to you. The two statements just don't add up.

I sympathise with your situation to some extent; I would far rather you could enjoy your house without the noise which upsets you so much. However, you appear to want everyone else to magically change their very long standing behaviour and method of earning their living to suit your recent issues (you said you have recently bought the house).

Presumably you enjoy the use of local roads and motorways, which have been there for years. How would you feel if someone who recently moved in right next to one of those roads or motorways contacted you, called you names and then tried to persuade you not to drive past their house because they didn't like the noise from your car or motorcycle? It's precisely the same sort of thing.

Again, if you would confirm the area where you live those of us here could at least try to avoid it, if at all possible. If you don't, how can you expect anyone to do anything? Or do you really expect us to tell our customers that we can't fly them because their business trip isn't seen worthwhile or necessary by some bloke who's just moved into a house near Epsom?

What about your trip to work - is that worthwhile or necessary? What if an objector to your commuter or pleasure vehicle, be it car or motorcycle told you that if you're not driving a fire engine or ambulance, to stay off the roads? Why don't you go by bicycle or horse? What about the poisonous methanol fumes and the noise from your radio controlled helicopter - are they really necessary?

Hatred is a bit strong, frustration at the system is probably closer to the mark. If the system forced the heli's to alternate their routes on different days of the week or something then that would be acceptable in my book, but it doesnt, all the system does is deny there is a problem which there quite clearly is, proved by the many "moaning minnies" in this area. When you realise that if you were complaining about another less noisy noise something would be done but as it aviation you just have to live with it. Very frustrating.....

I always used to enjoy seeing heli's as they are pretty interesting machines (hence my hobby of model heli's - quiet electric, not noisy petrol!) but when you are continuously subjected to the noise the interest wears thin pretty quickly.

Blimey Shy, you really are anti anti :)

No existing objection to heli noise, it had never entered my conciousness. Objection to noise in general (trains, roads) so we chose this house as it does not have either. I was not refering to everything reasonable re financial/legal although obviously we did all we could but that was not enough, the solicitor is water tight so we cannot even sue them. We did everything reasonable re noise - yes we sat in the garden for an hour or so on many days and commented on how quiet it was. I am not saying no heli's went over but obviously we did not come on a bad day. We even came here at midnight a couple of weekends to see if the nearby alleyway casued drunken noise, it does not.

The heli noise in not terrible everyday, sometimes we only get 5 or so, a bad day is 20 ish. According to locals who have been here longer than me it has got worse (in their opinions) over the last couple of years.

That is not what I want, what I want is fairness (if I lived 2 miles away I would probably have far fewer overhead) and the government to stop denying there is a problem and set up some decent form of monitoring to see exactly how many people are affected and what can be done We all have to live in this world and give and take works both ways, so far I have had nothing positive from the heli industry (apart from you guys of course!)

It is not the same at all for one simple reason, the knowledge before moving in.

If I moved near a race track I would not dream of moaning about the noise, same re airport or road. It is quite clearly ridiculous. But there was no prior indication when I moved here so what am I supposed to do?

Obviously Epsom/Ashtead council cannot state "this is a lovely place to live but we do have a problem with heli noise" so how is somebody like me supposed to know of the problem prior to moving? The noise maps do not show the full picture.......

Epsom/Ashtead. I never asked or expected you to tell your customers anything.

I have been in a similar position to you guys and lost, so I know what it is like to be hounded away from the hobby you enjoy (I know you are not all hobbyists but you get my point). My model heli is electric as I think that petrol ones are too noisy to fly around here - and no that is not a dig, but a simple fact.

You cannot really compare commuting by "normal" vehicle to commuting by heli, if I need to explain why then there really is no hope........

Caveat Emptor
 

L&L,

I really hate to say this but would you buy a second hand car (or motorcycle:)) without first hearing the engine.... Why would you buy a house under a heli route if this affects you? Did you not go along to the house prior to purchase to see what the environment was like, or soak up the local surroundings before committing?:ugh: A home is a huge investment, especially in these times of uncertain equity where a quick resale is difficult ,did you not see the tyre marks on the drive left by the previous owners:} I guess you have just learned one of lifes lessons.

You can not now expect an industry to move over because you err'ed. You now need to buy some ear muffs, we can recommend some good types here on the forum.

PS, I am looking for a nice cheap house down there.... I don't suppose, erm 10% of market value would....?

If you read my previous posts you would see that I had done everything reasonable (and beyond) to check this out.

This is not an official route, it is open air space that happens to form a well trodden path. No maps show it up as an area of concern. So short of being a heli pilot I dont know how I could ever have know prior to moving in?


I have tried ear plugs, but the low freq thud goes right through you sometimes (on certain helis, there is a big difference between them)

Yes I would, I am being deadly serious and would bite your arm off, but I suspect your solicitor would not allow you to buy it, hence I am stuck here.........

I'm not "anti anti", merely matter of fact. Helicopters are now quite a normal way to travel for some; especially in your area, you don't need to explain anything in that respect.

We all also know that helicopter noise can be intrusive; I certainly know that, after earning my living flying them and living near them for thirty years. If they and other aircraft were quieter, many of us would be happier, including me. I actually live under three "flight paths", one used by light aircraft at less than five hundred feet, one used by airliners operating in and out of a regional airport and the other used by transit traffic, mainly helicopters being vectored at similar heights to the ones you experience, to avoid the airliners.

If I were of the same mind as you, in a different financial climate I could try putting my home back on the market, albeit at a large financial disadvantage because the planning issue affecting me has come to fruition and has badly affected my property (devalued it by 30% according to the surveyor). The sale of it fell though in the past because of the then impending planning issue.

I'm not sure what you do actually want us to do about your problem. We are constrained where we fly, by the law and by other factors and are only going about our legal business. Aviation is already one of the most regulated industries. You should realise that we as individuals on this website cannot do what you want with respect to monitoring helicopter movements, any more than could (or should) a driver monitor motorway or other road movements to appease a complainer.

Edit: You are perhaps aware that other helicopter routes are available into the LHR control zone. There is another route inside the zone, (H3, you perhaps now have an aviation chart because you already know about H7). Normally many helicopters route north of you along there. However, for aircraft separation reasons that route cannot be used if Heathrow is using their easterly runways and they will do this if the wind direction so favours. In these cases, aircraft will have to go along the south sideof the zone and so you will hear more of them. I'm very surprised you make a complaint here if you only hear 5 aircraft in a day!

Have I got this right ?

Someone bashing away at a motorbike then revving it for 10 minutes followed by leaving it idling for 30 minutes then charging up and down the street on a Sunday morning is fine.

Up to 20 helicopters passing overhead (how long does that take?) during the day is unacceptable.

:confused:

From my experience of living near an Army barracks, the associated Lynx/Puma/Chinook helicopter movements at not that much above rooftop height are nothing compared to the local motorbike population. None of those were mentioned in the estate agents brochure. Visitors always comment how quiet it is ! Nowhere is ever going to be perfect and in my case the plus points outweigh the negative so I get over it. Turning into Victor Meldrew is a route to an early grave. Are helicopters the real problem here or just an easy target ? I realise this is probably no help whatsoever, just a different perspective. I'm not sure what else you're expecting to get out of this forum ?

And me! The noise is the issue and as technology cannot make it low enough yet, some other mediation needs to be entered into.

Sounds like you are in a similar situation to me, and I feel for you, but I think mine is worse as it appears our house is almost unsellable at ANY price. It is terribly complicated but needless to say the last year of my life have been spent trying to sort it out and failing.

So there we have it, there's no hope for any of us in the helicopter industry because "You cannot really compare commuting by "normal" vehicle to commuting by heli," and because we're childish and selfish we need it explained to us which apparently means "if I need to explain why then there really is no hope........"

Or is it more accurate to say you’re focusing all your frustrations of not being able to work, having a house with dodgy legal providence and generally being unhappy on the helicopter industry.

I'm sorry you are in this situation, I am, I appreciate you wanted to live in a lovely quiet corner of our green and pleasant land, that you have spent many hours turning your garden from a bomb-site to a nice place to live but it isn't our fault your unhappy!

If you genuinely mean to tell us that ear plugs, when indoors don't block out the horrendous thud of helicopter blades then you either have hyper sensitive hearing or you’re focusing all of your anger and frustrations into making the noise be there so you can be angry at someone or anything.

Your attitude is borderline obsessive and the problem is that your perspective is disproportionate to the problem. Your first post mentioned the inevitable legislation to come… well you know if enough miserably unhappy people such as yourself manage to focus your misplaced anger towards the industry then we will have to stop policing your neighborhoods, stop airlifting you or your friends & family to hospital and we can all be sent to the offshore industry.

I’m sorry you’re unhappy but obsessing over helicopters is a fine line to malicious persecution and boy it sounds to me line you’re very close to it. I suggest that you get some counseling and sort the rest of your life issues out before you engage in a crusade against the helicopter industry.

I never expected you to do anything, I had no idea what the outcome of this post would be when I started it. I wanted to understand exactly why they flew directly overhead and what the pilots view was. Obviously all this is with a view to enable me to take steps to moderate the noise somewhat.

You need to understand that heli's flying overhead are different to cars or motorbikes screaming past as they are rarer and impossible to communicate with (for example you could give the finger to an idiot on a bike, but a bit pointless at a heli as I have learned). It is also almost impossible to get any authority to do anything when you believe a law MUST be being broken.

I know that in this case it is unlikely any laws are being broken, and you can rightly defend yourselves in this knowledge, but the MP's said similar about the expenses "we broke no rules". I am not comparing you in any way to them, merely pointing out that the rules/laws are not in the interests of everyone (maybe the majority, maybe the minority, impossible to tell without stats)

I know you are already heavily regulated, and also probably follow them very well, but you have to see that aviation does have exceptions from rules which usually apply to all other forms of industry. I am intelligent enough to know why this is (avaition would collapse if they had to comply) with the obvious loss of many good things that aviation brings.

I suppose putting a human face (if that is possible on a forum?) to the noisy and pretty menacing machines with blacked out windows and impossible to read registrations has helped, what has really helped is the offer to avoid area if I am brave enough to post where it is. Also I hope that I would be able to post a pic of the worst offender when I get one, to see if I can get an ID so I can contact the owner and plead my case.

Also I hope that you are a little more understanding of the issues you can cause and the sometimes complex reasons as to why reactions against you can be so strong. A persons reaction is not always unique to them or their fault, many could react the same way in the same situation.

I dont think it is unreasonable to expect necessary noise to be spread around fairly where possible, and for the law to support such action. In this case the laws are at fault, not the pilots who cause the noise and I apologise for any offence I may have caused with the "childish" comment (although I still believe that altering a poll to reflect your views is not professional in any way)

Different sides of the fence, I just hope that you never find yourselves my side :ok:

Thanks Miles for your helpful, understanding and intelligent reply.

If all heli pilots have your attitude then there really is no hope for the industry, but I suspect the majority are a little more understanding.

Just like you cannot compare normal commuting with heli commuting, you cannot compare heli commuting with heli rescues.

I dont want to flame and have tried not to offend anyone, but being called obsessive because I dare to enter into conversation about the issue is pretty offensive. None of you had to reply.

An articulately written, and well balanced viewpoint low-and-loud.

Albeit from the other side of the fence.......;):D

"I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect necessary noise to be spread around fairly where possible, and for the law to support such action. In this case the laws are at fault"

Again with the blame culture, not that you bought a dodgy house, that you didn’t do your homework as too the area…

As for your statement above, do you seriously stand by that? The law is at fault because you’re obsessing over helicopters… for goodness sake.

As for your comment “but you have to see that aviation does have exceptions from rules which usually apply to all other forms of industry” …what are you talking about, seriously what the hell are you talking about, I cannot see how our heavily regulated industry gets exceptions that would affect your obsessive compulsive attitude.

And since when has this made any difference to their behaviour? My guess is that after such a response the next time they'd give it even more throttle, not less.

It's pointless to make a gesture at the pilot, even if they can see you, as they probably are not in a position to avoid your location. They are either taking the shortest (and thus quickest/cheapest route, burning min fuel, causing least noise overall) or they are taking the route they have been told to take by a controller, which is not negotiable.

As far as I can see the only helicopters that you can reasonably take issue with are those on a random sight-seeing trip, who may (if regulations allow) be able to do their random sight-seeing somewhere else. I doubt there are any of these, of course.

The rest you are stuck with, I'm afraid.

L & L,

A lot of helicopters leaving Battersea track due south (unoffical route) until clear of the Heathrow zone and then turn for either Blackbushe, Fairoaks, Farnborough etc. And then do the reverse to go to Battersea. Me included but only one or twice a month. It will usually be the larger types which even at 1000 or 2000ft are bloody noisy.

I use a waypoint 10nms due south of Battersea as a turning point and then route to Ockham. Heathrow usually spit us out at 1000ft AMSL (above mean sea level) and then generally we climb to 2400ft AMSL to remain below the London Control Area.

Without a village name or general location we can't do anything to avoid you.

If you supply a location and it is on my route I will happily change the waypoint to avoid you, I am sure other responsible operators will do the same.

Sadly, alot of these threads turn into slanging matches. It would have probably been better to start the post asking us to avoid an area rather than complaining about helicopter noise as this usually wakes the trolls from their slumber. :}

FNW

L&L,

Please understand that while we are willing to debate and assist where possible, Rotorheads is not a forum where we will divulge the identity of an aircraft, operator or pilot going about their lawful business.

If the owner, operator or pilot voluntarily choose to be recognised, that is their choice. But please do not expect any third party "outing' on this or any other thread on PPRuNe :=

I'd also try not to be quite so emotive in your descriptions, regardless of how you perceive a helicopter. "Pretty menacing machines with blacked out windows and impossible to read registrations" when you have accepted that they are too high to read a rego doesn't help your case. Some Rotorheads are willingly trying to help you here, and it will go a long way to recognise that. Those who get wound up in their replies are best ignored, rather than turn this into a pointless slanging match (which won't happen: trust me ;) ).

They get excluded from noise nuisance laws (or at least given exemptions). For example I can complain to the council about a noisy model helicopter and action would be taken, but I cannot do the same for a real helicopter. I do not want to get ijnto the rights and wrongs of this but merely point it out as fact.

Another example. I can fly and land a real helicopter in my garden for 28 days a year, but I can only race cars around it for 14 days. Again not an invitation for a discussion on the rights and wrongs.

As I understand it, I may be wrong, avaition gets taxed less on fuel than any other vehicular use. This is the only way avaiation can exist at the levels it does.

You obviously have issues with people challenging your industry and feel it appropriate to accuse them of mental illness, is that the result of some childhood trauma?

Oh, and by the way, I didnt realise that discussing an issue on a forum could be seen as "malicious persecution". Maybe your "issues" have clouded your view of reality?

I have never "persecuted" anybody in the helicopter industry, "maliciously" or otherwise. I may have done some serious reaserch into the subject and had some long detailed discussions with various stakeholders but none of that is anywhere near illegal or wrong as far as I know.

Fuel as a percentage of total cost of operation of a helicopter is not insignificant, but it's not as big as many other of the fixed and variable overheads. Most/all of those overheads attract taxation of a sort, as well, so the benefit to the Exchequer is pretty high.

Thanks Floater, for the info, the offer and the intelligent reply. It is good to hear somebody else admit that some heli's are "bloody noisy" even at legal height.

Senior - I understand why you cannot divuldge identity, that is the crux of the problem, people are told they can complain but that is not possible due to poor location of reg no. Catch 22 and very frustrating. But I do respect your position.

I do realise that some Rotorhead members are being helpful and I do really appreciate it. I also dont want this thread to be dragged down by a slanging match but I cannot ignore stupid personal swipes. I wont give credit to any others that may arise.

It is amazing what a typical spread of personalities exist here, that exists on other forums. Somehow I expected all pilots to be above your typical Internet forum member, but I suppose you are all human like the rest of us :ok:

You can land a helicopter in your garden as much as you like, the 14 and 28 day rule applies only to land not within the house curtillage... However if you were to "race" helicopters around, that would be motor racing, so could only be done for 14 days, as would "paint ball games" which comes under war games?

Kevin.

:)

A very whitty example of the discrepencies in the laws

L & L

Tell me about it... there are some really, really odd laws out there.:bored:

Kev.

Dont you think that is crazy and unfair? Surely in a fair society this should not be allowed? I am not saying ban all helicopters, I am saying dont allow people to do things like this which could be hell for innocent neighbours. Helicopters should only fly from designated airfields, what is so wrong with that? They can be very noisy and some thought needs to be given to that when making laws.

When they make a quiet helicopter then you can allow them to do what they like......

Part of the problem in this country is that we have too many laws, not too few. What is wrong with common sense, and a sense of acting in a responsible manner? The reality is that ownership of helicopters is pretty rare, and very few (if any) people are "blighted" by their neighbour operating a helicopter morning, noon and night from the garden next door. Can you name any cases?

What is a "designated"airfield, anyway. No such thing in law. There are licenced airfields and unlicenced airfields, both of which have planning permission to operate aircraft within the permission as granted.

Hmm.
I suppose it comes down to the ammount of usage, my helicopter lives in the side garden here, while it's really noisey I only use it every three weeks or so, but contrast that to the chap who purchased my old house three doors away, he has a motor bike and uses that every evening (custom type) which is just as loud as the heli and overall runs for a longer time?

Then you have the chap who gets the strimmer out on a Sunday afternoon for three hours on a trot.

I think when they made the 28 day rule they lumped all forms of transport together, one could argue that landing the helicopter in a garden is just the same (transport wise) as driving a car up the drive - maybe this was correct, maybe not?

Don't forget that the helicopter was designed for just that, trips into confined areas, to base them all at airports would seem to be a waste, we would all have to fly around in fixed wing thing - which by the way aren't all that quiet either...

For those of you who are interested, I thought I would share my similar experience of NIMBY's that destroyed a sport I enjoyed, and you may take away some valuable lessons from it.

I used to trail ride, that is riding old roads that had not been tarmac'd on a dirt bike. Some of you would call it off roading or hooning about on a dirt bike. Usual mix of people. Some (the majority in my opinion and experience) had quiet bikes, rode sensibly and courteously and never broke any laws. Others (the minority in my opinion and experience) rode noisy illegal bikes like they were on a race track.

No matter what we (the sensible ones) did, the NIMBY's were constantly lobbying parliament for the law to be changed and us to be banned. Their main gripes were the noise of the illegal bikes (legal ones are pretty damn quiet) and the conduct of the idiot riders. Even though both the issues (noise and bad riding) were covered by exisitng laws and could be enforced if the Police had the will and time, parliament chose to pander to the strong lobbyists (including The Ramblers Association - very strong) and ban us from almost everywhere. We used to have access to 5% of all off road tracks (as did anyone with a road legal vehicle), and now we only have 1%. Almost destroyed the industry overnight.

My comparison with the helicopter industry is that whilst the helicopter industry has the support of very rich and influential customers with the obvious leverage that has in Parliament, and the obvious benefits of helicopters for Police and rescue. Do not underestimate the strength of negative feeling that can be generated, sometimes for incorrect or unfair reasons. As we used to think whenever we passed a house that happened to be on the lanes, "lets be as quiet as possible, preferably so they dont hear us, so that is one less complaint to stop us doing what we enjoy".

Obviously it is more difficult for you guys to pass unnoticed! But at least you dont have to worry about spotty bike thieves giving you a bad name :ok:

I agree, but common sense is not a quality everybody posseses. Although I suspect heli pilots would tend to have more than most. The law should be that it is fine to do it but if it becomes "unreasonble" (difficult to define I know) then it should be moderated, not banned.

I would love a heli next door to me, I find them fascinating. Not to go in, but from a mechanical point of view, I love all things fast and noisy. But if my neighbour decided to go to work in it everyday I would have issues as would most. It is all about balance and that is what is missing from this law.

I certainly cannot name any cases (apart from the one I read about on this forum that was in the Mail and Express), I didnt actually realise that many people kept helicopters in their garden!

The difference is that you rode bikes for sport. We're doing it for a living.

Many of us are bikers, too, btw. I also take part in Classic Trials. The last time I rode one of mine off a surfaced road, (legally, carefully, quite slowly and well away from habitation) we were accosted by a woman who was almost violent in her protest. We had stopped to let her go past. She insisted in taking our registration numbers and told me she was going to report me to the police for riding there. I pointed out my friend on his bike, on her other side. He merely said: "Why not tell me, then - I AM a policeman". She became even more agitated so we rode on. Never heard another thing.

As I write this, another light aircraft has flown over my house at less than 500 feet on it's way to the airfield. I won't be complaining.