UK SAR Harmonisation
 

Heard today that Augusta Westland has joined the UK Air Rescue bid for SAR Harmonisation. So that's Bristow, SERCO, Augusta Westland and FBH all in one consortium.

Bad news for CHC/Thales especially with the recent poor press coverage of the S92 and CHC having their $400 million debt rating reduced to negative.

I think that leaves only the two bidders now that Bond have pulled out a few months ago.

I suppose that's good? AW139's here we go. At least it isn't a Westland product.

Westland
 

Maybe with Westland joinning Bristows and FBH & Serco they will be offering the EH-101 & AW-139 as there option. The 101 might have chance then???:)

So that'll be one set of crewmen with so much cabin space they don't know what to do with it and one set tripping over each other to avoid tripping over the casualty. Here's hoping common sense prevails. D'oh!

Lost At Sea - What was the bad coverage they were getting on the S92. Thought it was going well there for them.

Thanks

You are assuming Westlands don't have other plans for the fleet, rather than just shipping something in from the Italians.

Unless Air Knight have pulled out as well, surely there are 3 bidders?

3 Bidders
 

Yes, still 3 consortiums: CHC/Thales, AirKnight and UK Air Rescue. AW have rejoined the fray with UK Air Rescue. I hear that the IPT are looking for expertise from the front line to help assess the bids. Will Crab be one of those "Volunteered" to assist? A nation holds its breath.:ok:

which bidding group was lockheed martin with?

which bidding group was lockheed martin with?
 

LM along with VT and BIH form the AirKnight Consortium.

That's a bit radical... actually asking the guys who are going to use the equipment and operate the service what they think. :rolleyes:

Have they been drinking...??? ;)

AW rejoin the fray!
 

UK Air Rescue welcomes AgustaWestland to the team

UK Air Rescue, the British consortium of Bristow Helicopters, FB Heliservices and Serco seeking to run the UK’s Search and Rescue Helicopter (SAR-H) service, is today being joined by AgustaWestland, a global leader in helicopter systems and training.

The addition of AgustaWestland to the team further strengthens the credentials of UK Air Rescue. With an established track record of working together, each company brings specialist experience and insight to the consortium, creating the ideal partner to deliver unfailing, lifesaving search and rescue services over land and sea.

Between them, the founding companies of UK Air Rescue have extensive SAR experience spanning over 35 years, a deep public service ethos, commercial, technical and training expertise, a track record in innovation and a total focus on assured service delivery.

Allan Blake, Director of UK Air Rescue, said: “We are delighted to have AgustaWestland on board. AgustaWestland design helicopters that perform search and rescue operations around the world in all manner of situations and conditions. UK Air Rescue will combine their invaluable experience with the extensive SAR capabilities and experience with other helicopter types already within the partnership to ensure that our solution delivers exactly what the customer needs and what the public deserves.”

UK Air Rescue is currently one of three bidders who have been selected to participate in a dialogue and subsequently offer a solution in competition, which will be assessed jointly by the Ministry of Defence and Maritime and Coastguard Agency.



Notes

1. UK Air Rescue is a British consortium of Bristow Helicopters, FB Heliservices, Serco and AgustaWestland.

2. Bristow is one of the largest providers of helicopter services worldwide. Bristow’s extensive SAR experience over 35 years includes operations in Norway, the Soloman Islands, and the Netherlands as well as direct SAR support to the global oil/gas industry. Until July 2007 Bristow was the current SAR provider to the Maritime and Coastguard Agency with UK SAR experience dating from 1971. In that time Bristow has flown in excess of 40,000 SAR hours, carried out over 10,000 missions and rescued more than 6,500 people.

3. Serco brings the public service, operational and commercial experience essential to the delivery of a harmonised SAR operation. Serco is trusted to deliver highly sensitive, safety first, efficient services on behalf of the UK government. These include a wide range of key support services at military bases across the UK, state-of-the-art simulated mission training to military helicopter pilots and operational support to the Armed Forces, including engineering support to both rotary and fixed wing platforms. In addition, Serco has several successful PFI projects to its name, including the flagship Joint Services Command and Staff College at Shrivenham.

4. FB Heliservices, a Bristow and Cobham joint venture, brings unmatched experience of commercial and military SAR operational training and SAR service support. At the Search and Rescue Training Unit (SARTU) at RAF Valley, FB Heliservices provides SAR training for all military multi-engine Advanced Rotary Wing students and intensive training for pilots and crewmen specialising in search and rescue. SARTU is manned by a mixture of specialist SAR military and civilian instructors, providing the continuity and depth of experience to the instructor cadre as they are all highly experienced SAR aircrew; all are ex-military and many have extensive civil SAR experience.

5. AgustaWestland, a Finmeccanica company, is one of the largest helicopter companies in the world. The company offers an unrivalled range of helicopters, training and support solutions to satisfy the requirements of civil and military customers. AgustaWestland has its primary operations in Italy, the United Kingdom and the United States of America. Under the Sea King Integrated Operational Support (SKIOS) aircraft availability based contract, awarded in November 2007, AgustaWestland is supporting the current UK military SAR aircraft fleet that provide around the clock SAR cover for the UK and Falkland Islands. AgustaWestland has the most extensive range of modern SAR helicopters in its product range including the AW139 medium range and AW101 long range helicopters.:D

Mmmmm. All very impressive until the bottom line.

See my previous post (11th Jan) They'll need to come up with more suitable aircraft than those. They need a rescue helicopter, not a helicopter bastardised for rescue purposes.

SAR Helicopter
 

Surely that has always been the case? Is there an existing helicopter that was designed specifically for SAR?:confused:

Vie sans frontieres your comment looks really ridiculous! Both 139 and 101 have a specific SAR variant and both are already operational in such roles.
Bastardised is such "out of context" word that could even sounds offensive in this case!
Are you a little biased on Agusta products?

Aw 149
 

How about this then:

http://www.agustawestland.com/produc...oduct=29&id=29

When are you guys going to realise that there will never be a 'perfect' SAR machine.

Generally speaking the old favorite in design principles prevails. That is the design philosophy behind the 'SKIP' (known as the DUMPSTER in the US). ie. What will hold a lot will hold a little). Of course you will need smaller craft for small jobs and medium for medium jobs but please, gentlemen, head out of the sand, we live in the real world and in that real world we make do as best we can. It's bad enough trying to get manufacturers to get helicopters that are good at one job let alone the multitude of tasks that they are now asked to perform.


G.

:ok:

AW149
 

With a cabin height as low as that, I would have thought the average employment lifespan for the crewmen will be about three years before their dodgy knees and backs get the better of them. (Ask a Puma crewman!)

I thought they were looking for a civil platform solution, isn’t the AW149 a militarized AW139?

It doesn't work like that, it is up to bidders to provide the solution, whatever that may be. A civil servant on the IPT even stated at one meeting that "the solution doesn't have to be a helicopter". Raised eyebrows everywhere! As Geoffers says there is no perfect SAR helicopter, adapt, adopt, improvise is the name of the game. What is really needed, I think, is a Sea King size replacement, High Cabin NH90 anyone?:ok:

Now for my two bobs worth!
As has already been stated, this is the opportunity to get things right from the start. Whatever machine/s is/are finally decided on, it/they need to be able to do the job from day one! Not six/eight months after taking over.:ugh:
The aircraft is going to be used purely for SAR, not troop lifting, underslinging or anything military! Well not yet anyway. So get it right now!!!
Yes, it really needs to be something S61/Sea King size, not AW139, which I am sure is a very useful machine, but would not have been able to do the job off Dorset on Sunday night without help from elsewhere! Yes, I know there are bases elsewhere, Lee(139 from April) , Chivenor, Culdrose but if the Harmonisation team don't get it right, then they will probably be 139s as well! (Everyone seems to be obsessed with speed, not lifting ability and range. Is Jeremy Clarkson on the IPT?)
If the IPT need expertise from the front line then so be it. Only don't forget that Crab is not the only expert,:) there are some pretty experienced Crews on the MCA contract as well!!!:ok:
A bit more than two bobs worth but I needed to get that off my chest!
3D

Well said 3D Cam

Have to agree with you on most of what you say but I would one step further.
I would like the IPT to canvas ALL SAR crew on ALL SAR Bases (Airforce,Navy and Coastguard) on what they would like to see in this new contract.

I think there is a place for a 139 and that place is either Portland or Lee on Solent but not Both they are the only two bases so close that you could have one backing up the other with a larger Helo if needed


Justin

Can't see both Portland and Lee surviving anyway. One of them'll have to move east. Surely the people of Sussex, Kent and Essex deserve better coverage than they have at present.

How about ............................................................ .......Manston!

Now there's an idea.

The idealism of youth!
 

You might want to re-examine the ITT again to see the flaws in that statement.
Ask 4 aircrew and you'll get 5 opinions! Do you really think a multi million pound contract is going to be awarded on the opinions of the workers?
Have the MCA or RN been approached to supply expertise? Stop picking on poor old Crab.;)

I did have my name in the frame briefly for the SARH scoring team but perhaps my contentious views in the past might have queered the pitch in some peoples view-never mind, it sounds like it is going to be far from a barrel of laughs. And, since the mates of mine who are involved have generally similar viewpoints and experience, it won't affect the price of fish much and common sense will prevail.

There is a high probability that whatever aircraft end up filling the contract, they will be COMR (contractor owned and military registered) so that they can be crewed by both civvy and mil crews and can operate to military rules and regs (NVG for example). This solution is easy to achieve (the precedents already exist) and saves tedious battles with the CAA trying to work out how to marry the civilian rules to the SAR needs. With COMR you just adapt existing mil SOPs and crack on - you can even winch for training without being safe single engine!!

The problem with basing your aircraft selection on just one SAROP is that the next one will inevitably need the exact opposite - I think all the bidders are unanimous that a mix of large and small aircraft is the solution.

And I think you have neatly summarised the case for not having 2 bases so close to each other...

The Western end of the Portland patch is covered by Chivenor at night anyway-it wouldn't be difficult to do during the day as well:)

Haven’t the Coastguard just built 2 brand new huge hangers at Lee and Portland if so I can’t see either of them moving any time soon.
Better idea would be to put the S92 into Portland and close Chivenor :)
Don't think that would upset to many people crab and you could always redeploy to a war zone and do what your trained to do.

What??? they have Sky TV and a locker full of chocolate in war zones?? I'm off:)

Crab said.
O.K. I'll rise to the bait.
When Portland receive their new faster aircraft, the 139, maybe they will be in your 'patch' a bit more often during the day?:) That is presuming ARCCK do not do their usual protectionism bit when considering taskings!:ugh:
Now for my bit of bait.
Harmonisation sees both Chivenor and Culdrose closed and replaced by a unit at St. Mawgan/Newquay.:D This will allow a new unit to be formed at Manston and push Wattisham up to Great Yarmouth.:D:D
Rescue 1
Yes, new hangars at Portland and Lee. Milllions of pounds worth!! If the military are to be used as role models,then they are both for the chop.:eek:
S92 at Portland? Gets my vote.:ok:
Lee do not need a large aircraft seeing as they spend most of their time acting as air ambulance for the Isle of Wight.:)

If we use the military as a role model then the SARH team had better base the new contract on supplying 36 aircraft.

Make that 48

3D - who will cover South Wales then? 50% of Chivs jobs are there and that is a really long way from St Mawgan, even in a super-fast whizzy new helicopter. Then what happens if the St Mawgan aircraft is up in the Brecons and a job happens somwhere on the SW peninsula? Pretty poor response times I would suggest.

There look to be savings when basing is considered and the easy option is always to close one because it saves money - the balance sheet versus the service to the public......hmmmm probably the balance sheet will win every time.

As far as the current basing goes, it seems to work well and the only logical changes would be to move Wattisham to Manston or thereabouts and close Portland - (daytime only SAR...how quaint):)

Crab said
Scrub the Chivenor move to St. Mawgan, howabout Brawdy??:) Back to your roots??(The Flight that is.)
Not quite right there I'm afraid!(As you already know.) 0900-2100 actually.(2359 on "Ice Prince" night. A bloody long day!:ouch:) 24hr. with, if not before, harmonisation! As I have said before, 24hr will be welcomed with open arms!:ok:
3D

Crab,

Portland - daytime only.

In fact it's 9 til 9 and that means in the winter months it's not daytime for the whole 12 hours. Perhaps the job they did the other night extracting the crew of the stricken vessel sw of Portland may help you to see that. That job went through to about midnight.

And yes it's daytime only certainly in the summer where there are shed loads of divers and holiday makers around Dorset getting in the ****. A fast response SAR machine such as Portland saves many idiots. If the mil covered this patch poor little johnny would be fish food by the time they got airborne let alone arrived.

How do you work that out then? Isn't everyone on RS15? Or are Portland on RS5?

15 minutes, the same as everywhere else. I think the point was distance from military SAR units, Culdrose & Chivenor, to the extremities of Portland's patch, not scramble times!

Every patch has extremities and if you happen to be in need of rescue in one, then that's just bad luck, just like it's bad luck if the weather's sh!t or if the helicopter's engaged in another rescue. The word on the street is that it'll be 12 bases come 2012 so there's always going to be somewhere that has marginally poorer coverage - that's just a fact of life. You can't base aircraft everywhere. Does little Johnny in Dorset have more right to be saved than little Jimmy in East Kent? Of course not and when you look at the present geographical spread of bases, especially in southern England, it makes no sense at all. Face facts, either Portland or Lee will have to shift eastwards. My money's on the one that's only needed 50% of the time at the moment. Bye bye Portland.

Jimmy does not need rescuing. He's just learnt to swim.

Since when do facts and common sense apply to government decisions?:rolleyes:
Yes, as there are now. Plus The Falklands! Making 13.
It would be a very brave move to even suggest closing any SAR base. Portland went through that a few years ago and in fact the local M.P. even used it as part of his election campaign. Got in as well on the strength of it!

12 Military UK SAR Flights with new shiny aircraft - fabtastic, bring it on:) - tell you what, since there is already a civvy heli set up in the Falklands, you can have that one to keep you happy.

If you follow my logic re COMR aircraft then Military supervision will be required to ensure Mil rules and regs are being complied with and Mil standards will be doing the checking and training. We might let a few civilian crews come and share but only if you take your fair share of secondary duties and second standby:):)

Standing by for incoming;)

PS good job on the Ice Prince:ok:

Crab.
Mil standards?? Have they got any?:D:D No way am I lowering mine!:)
Oh. and who said anything about shiny new aircraft?
Military Flights? My uniform won't fit anymore, it's too big??? And you may have to salute me.;)
Ice Prince... yep. the boys dun good didn't they.:ok:
Rumour has it that ARCCK turned down the MCA request for Culdrose to launch as well, to back up the S61.:hmm: It would appear they think two lifeboats are as good as a Sea King! (NOT my opinion I hasten to add.) Although the lifeboats did a great job as well!:ok: