What is the standard price usually for a PPL(H)?
 

Hello all what is the standard price usually for a PPL(H) many thanks, adam:ok:

There is probably no such thing as a standard price.
If I were you I would budget for around 55-60 hours flying at about £250-£300 + VAT per flying hour.

Best of luck

Many thanks,:ok: does anyone recomend any helicopter schools with a fleet of r22s or schwiezer 300?:confused:

In Norwich, there's Sterling Helicopters with a Schweizer. That would be nearer the £300/hour mark.

Cheers

Whirls

I'll try and get this in before the redundantcy police close the thread!
Why does it cost almost $600 an hour for a 300? Ouch!

Because this is the UK and we have a different economical structure, government, tax legislature and regulations to the US. In a nutshell.

Cheers

Whirls

still confused
 

How concise, yet vague, all at the same time! What do they do with the
extra $300?

I think it is split between the CAA and the government.
Which is why I've done all my training in the USA.

LM

Maybe they want to operate the aircraft profitably?

There have been so many discussions here about how the industry beggars itself by putting aircraft out at rates that don't make money, and so many threads about pilot's and engineer's salaries being too low. Economics 101: go into business to make money, not lose it, then everyone benefits :ok:

Just for interest sake - and comparison maybe?

The H269C, H269Cb & H269Cbi were all charged out at $440 per hour NZ $$ when I did my training. I think it's still around that mark.

How does that compare?

KC

There plenty of successful & reputable companies operating in Australia for half that price (300/R22/B47/etc).
My advice, for what it’s worth, buy yourself a ticket to the Sunshine Coast in Queensland, start your flying & enjoy the beach & sun. All costs considered, would no doubt work out less expensive & you would have a nice holiday to boot!!
But, you would have to put up with us ribbing you about the cricket!!

training Oz.
 

AWBD,

No doubt the sunshine coast is the way to go and WE won't mention the rugby:eek:

Back on thread (ish).

Whitus1, getting a PPL(H) abroad is an option although, full-time, I would allow 6 weeks for contingencies. If you get a JAA licence abroad, then I would recommend passing all the exams here before you go. If you get a foreign licence abroad, don't forget to add the costs of conversion to a JAA licence when you get back home.

As for the economics of costs ....

Average annual UK wage £23,764 with average of 28 days paid leave.
Average house price (small terraced house - you don't have those in the States!) £183,500
Petrol per litre £1.04
Beer £3.00
Basic rate of income tax 22%
Higher rate (income over ~ £40,000) 40%
National insurance 11%

I can't even begin to explain how this all pieces together to produce the general higher costs of living we experience in the UK but I would suspect that the basic crux is the cost of land.

Also bear in mind that our CAA is self-funded with no government subsidy as in the US.

The £300 I quoted is the cost of a 300CBi (which is a cheaper machine to run that a C) from a well run and reputable school. They do make a profit but a very, very tiny one!!!

Hope that helps.

Cheers

Whirls

Training in a R22 will set you back around £260 inc VAT per hour, depending on how close to London you are. You can generally get a (very small) discount for paying chunks up front, but this generally isn't recommended, as it ties you to a specific school and their financial health (schools do go bust from time to time).

Don't forget that the CAA don't actually want people to become GA pilots and they certainly don't want people flying helicopters, hence they make it extremely expensive.

That sounds as thought the CAA have actually given some thought to it. I'm not sure they even consider helicopters when they invent their daft rules and training regimes!

Cheers

Whirls

GA Helicopter Pilots
 

I read a worrying article in Pilot magazine this month, regarding a change to the rule which allows equal rights to all users. Seems the CAA are in for chooper pilots after all.

Back on subject... i did some hours at Redhill in Surrey in an R22. It was nearly £300 per hour including landing fees and VAT etc. So i decided to gather the licence money togther and buy my own chopper.

Alternatively, you could go abroad. I did some hours in Long Beach California. Fabulous! Cheap and great weather. BUT, you'll find it very difficult to self fly hire here in UK if you do this. Apparently, the radio is very different and air law here in UK is much more strict. You will at least have to do some test flights back here and perhaps redo some tests.

Basically its a minefield. Dont take one persons view as gospel. Ask, ask and ask again. Do your research - this is the most important thing.

Good Luck!

55-60 Hours, wow is it going to take that long?

My Helicopter Training School reckon it should take only 45 hours, I know that is the minimum anyway but is your 55-60 more realistic or are you just covering yourself!

Better tell me now as I haven't budgeted for those extra hours!!!!!

Thanks.

Don't bank on the minimum hours unless:

You've very talented - and they would have picked that up by now.
You've already got a CPL Fixed Wing.

Nothing like Eternal Optimism when they're not the ones paying for it!

Whirls will be able to give you a better idea as an Instructor, I'm just basing it on all the students that were around me. :ok:

Very talented.......I wish!

CPL Fixed Wing........No!

Better get saving then!

Thanks Kiwi but I'm not an instructor. Yet! However, Whirlybird is!!!!

55-60-70 is more like it especially as, how can I put this, one gets older!!! I was 38 when I got my PPL(H) in just under 70 hours. And that is not uncommon in my experience.

Sorry, better get saving. It was a bit disingenuous of your local school to quote minimum hours as being the norm.

Cheers

Whirls

Ahem...........might have to check it out with them ,maybe I got the wrong end of the runway, sorry, I mean stick!

So thats 70 x £250 = £17,500..............WOW!

Do you find many people that star their PPL(H) then for what ever reason don't complete the course?

PPLH
 

I did mine at Denham in 2005; on R22.

Cost with discount £180 an hour. if you buy 20 hour blocks.

I have a BCPL QFI ( now worthless, Thanks *&^% CAA:mad:) although flying fixed for 25 years took 50 hours for PPLH. Pretty average due to weather time and competence etc.

It's alot cheaper than R44 and you only need a 4 hour converstion to the
R44 once you have your Licence.:D

i gwt my training in a cessna 152 for £90 per dual hour inclusive of all fees. so i guess thats really good?

Why do most people take a PPL(H)?

1 Is it because they always had a boyhood dream of piloting a Helicopter?

2 Is it so they can make a career flying Helicopters?

3 Or is it that they have more money than they no what to do with and use it as a status symbol to say they can fly Helicopters?

For me its number 1 but its obviously not going to be cheap and i'm having trouble at the moment trying to justify the cost............but I don't drink, don't smoke and don't have a family so THAT'S my justification!

People's motives can be varied but your three scenarios probably represent a reasonable spread!

I know, because I did it, if you want something badly enough, you'll find the money!

However, in the long run it would be cheaper to save and learn to fly full time rather than just do, say, an hour a week.

You also need to consider the costs of maintaining the licence and what you want to do with it once you've got it. I have no idea about drop out during a PPL(H) but post-licence, I believe it is quite a high percentage.

Cheers

Whirls

According to General Aviation magazine 70% of people who passed their PPL, not sure if this includes the PPL(H), in 2000 did not maintain their licence after year 5, thats a massive drop out!

Having said that, I suppose some people just want to have the satisfaction of passing their PPL(H), gaining their licence and then they'll move onto their next ambition.

As regards safety whilst training what are peoples thoughts regarding wearing a Nomex fire proof flight suit bearing in mind it could save ones life if in difficulty...........is this something that a Flying School and other students and pilots would encourage or just laugh at?

Safety is always paramount in flying but ..... in all honesty ... as a trainee PPL in a nomex flying suit, you'd be laughed at. Maybe not to your face but definitely behind your back!!! :}

Wear clothing that covers your limbs and avoid man-made fibres. I cannot think of any incident involving a serious fire and trainee.

Cheers

Whirls

Oh thats good to know, so sorry to put a downer on the conversation but what about newly qualified pilots, is there a high number of accidents relating to 'new" pilots or is that not really the case?

Hahaha, I have to agree with Whirls here!!

I wear one for my job and I get enough stick about it - so unless you've got really broad shoulders (which you will have soon from all the hovering practice and slope landings you're about to do...) - I would stick with civvy clothes!

Another thing too is that - over here anyway - it got REALLY bloody hot in that bubble after an hours' intense lesson and you hop out completely drenched - I even gave up on the limb-covering clothes and wore cotton shorts & singlet. :eek:

(As you can imagine, it looked really hot and sexy with my steel-capped boots... :} )

Hope this helps! :ok:

Don't think i'll have that problem very often up here in the 'frozen' North!

Ok, finally on the clothing front do you recommend 'steelies' of just any hard wearing boots?

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...shoes+footwear


And if you really want to start some controversies, ask about gloves!!!!!

Cheers

Whirls

I Daren't!!!!!!!!!!!!:=

:) I got my PPL(A) in an (in)famous place in the US during 2004 for the grand total of approx £4400, including return flights, accomodation and admittedly limited 'holiday' money while I was there.
At the time I thought it was expensive... though at the time I'd never been in a helicopter!
Thinking about it now though, I'd want that much now to get me sat me in a couple of those Cessnas for 45 hours again :eek:

Whirlygig, this is all very interesting because if you go to the thread called 'Helicopter down in Yarra River........' they are suggesting wearing both a flightsiut and helmet whilst flying any aircraft, training or not!

Your shoes question?

I wore hard boots sometimes, but I find you need to "feel" the pedals under your feet for those fine-tuned movements you need to make - if you've hovered for more than a minute without covering an entire football field, you'll know what I mean!

Autorotations however? The heavier the right foot, the better... ;)

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...irl/PMSL-1.gif

Just experiment and you'll find something you're comfortable with.

Helmets? 50/50 here where I trained. I guess safety is paramount, but if your blade flies off, I'm not sure that a helmet is going to make much difference...


(runs for the door....)

What do you more experiences fellas and fellesses think? If I was working a helo, especially low level stuff, I'd buy a helmet for sure.

to helmet or not to helmet.. this is the question
 

i have worked/still do in tourism flying helicopters alongside a pilot who always wore a helmet on a tourist flight and he continually got asked - why are you wearing a helment? is this dangerous? where is my helmet??

i wear a helmet all the time when flying "commercial" work, such as low level, surveys, filming, on fires etc. (personally i always were flight suit and gloves no matter what the flying is) :rolleyes:

when it comes to shoes, at the moment where i am working it is a requierment to wear boots nearly 20cm above the ankle, full leather, lace up fire standards.. they get VERY hot and uncomfortable but the reality is that when S*&T hits the fan you would be happy to be very hot in those boots, helmet, suit and gloves...

i will give this advice to people starting out... no matter how much pressure your instructor puts you under - just make sure you are in cotton clothing and enclosed shoes that wont burn!!!!!!!!!:eek: get used to wearing it now you will be thankfull one day!!!:ok:

You'll get all sorts of advice on this forum and it's up to you to decide which to take. There are different scenarios and different contexts and some advice is not suitable to be moulded into a "one size fits all" situation.

If you'd feel more comfortable in a Nomex flying suit whilst you're learning to hover, then that's fine - I'm just warning you of the reaction you'll get!

Cheers

Whirls

On hours to PPL(H)....

Almost no-one does it in 45 hours. That is a LEGAL minimum, ie if you're a natural pilot, learning on an intensive course, who has a CPL(A), has been a passenger who's handled the controls many times in a helicopter, has flown radio-controlled models, and drives a JCB or forklift truck for a living (coordination is similar) the CAA won't make you do more than 45 hours!

The national average is 60-70, I think. Haing said that, I do know one or two schools who try to push people through in 45. A few make it, but I personally know of two who did who felt they were rushed and didn't learn enough. I also know an instructor who thinks the legal minimum should be increased to 70 hours, for safety. Budget for 60, and if you do it in less...well, you want to fly after getting your licence, don't you?

On clothing...

It's down to personal choice and relative risk. I don't wear a nomex suit in my car, and I don't in my helicopter. However, if I was flying commercially low level all day, I might think about some kind of protection. But that's me. If you'd rather have extra safety when learning to hover, don't worry who laughs at you. But make sure you're comfortable, whatever you wear, as learning to fly is hard work.

Have fun. :ok: