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Canada: Cormorant & Cyclone thread
Vancouver Sun.
A lack of parts has sidelined most of the Canadian Forces' search-and-rescue helicopters on the West Coast, leaving only one of five in working order and forcing maintenance crews to scavenge components from other choppers. No matter the platform? |
So what's the word on the Canadian Navy S92/CH148 delays ??
I see the rumour is the programme has slipped from late 2008 to late 2010...keep those Sea Kings going boys !!! |
"So what's the word on the Canadian Navy S92/CH148 delays ??
I see the rumour is the programme has slipped from late 2008 to late 2010...keep those Sea Kings going boys !!!" Defense Aerospace are saying three year slippage, which pushes it nearer to late 2011/2012. And pushes the Sea Kings three years nearer to their bus-passes. |
For less $$, the agreement was commercial customers got head-of-the-line privileges.
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So Agusta Westland was right then...Sikorsky couldn't meet the contract requirement !
Considering the Canadian need was urgent this sounds a lame excuse to me ,especially as some of the early civil sales were kinda subsidised to establish a broad market front ..more likely the DND has come to a new agreement rather than instituting the late penalty clauses. It also sounds like plans to use the first aircraft for utility support in the Gulf/Afghanistan next year ahead of qualification of the ASW mission package are also gone out the window. Still..nice to know NH90 isn't the only one having delivery problems. |
I hear that the Fleet Air Arm has a few Merlins sat around at Culdrose not doing much. Perhaps if the Canadians ask nicely we might lend them ten or so to bridge the gap until the Cyclone *IS* ready?
No? Just a thought!:} |
Originally Posted by heli1
So what's the word on the Canadian Navy S92/CH148 delays ??
I see the rumour is the programme has slipped from late 2008 to late 2010...keep those Sea Kings going boys !!! Sea King replacements on hold STEVE RENNIE Canadian Press January 9, 2008 at 8:56 PM EST OTTAWA — The delivery of new military helicopters to replace Canada's aging fleet of Sea Kings will likely be delayed by 30 months and Ottawa is threatening to deeply penalize the U.S. contractor “thousands of dollars” for each day the choppers are late, The Canadian Press has learned. A senior government source, speaking on background, said late Wednesday that department officials told Public Works Minister Michael Fortier on Monday that Sikorsky Aircraft Corp. would be late with the long-awaited delivery of new CH-148 Cyclones. Sikorsky will be penalized thousands of dollars each day the Cyclones are delayed, the source said. Calls to Sikorsky were not immediately returned on Wednesday. The Defence Department referred all calls Wednesday night about the delay to Public Works. “We are assessing the implications of what a delay on the delivery of the maritime helicopters will have on the operational requirements of DND and PWGSC is considering all possible options with respect to Sikorski's default on the timely delivery of the Maritime Helicopters,” wrote Jacques Gagnon, Mr. Fortier's communications director, in an e-mail to The Canadian Press. Ottawa signed the contract in November 2004 to replace the 40-year-old Sea King fleet. The deal required Connecticut-based Sikorsky to build 28 helicopters and begin delivering one per month starting in November 2008. The Defence Department first set out to replace the Sea Kings in the 1980s, and former prime minister Brian Mulroney's Conservative government decided in 1992 to buy 50 EH-101 helicopters in a $5.8-billion deal. But Jean Chrétien's Liberals tore up the deal when they came to power, paying $500-million in penalties for backing out of the contract. Retired air force colonel Lee Myrhaugen, a former deputy commander of the military's maritime air group and a veteran Sea King pilot, said the military made every effort to extend the Sea Kings' life cycle and the delay could put further strain on the aging choppers. “If it's going to be extended some 30-odd months, that's just going to stretch that rubber band that much further,” Mr. Myrhaugen said. “The bottom line is, you can only stretch that rubber band so far. The calculations for the delivery date of the Cyclone were based on the fact that they had extended the life of the Sea King to its maximum.” |
heli1 has a point. Another indication is that the successful 1st flight of the fly by wire controls occurred about a month ago, and this is part of the CH-148 kit. To fly, certify and productionize this in a year is quite a challenge.
I have seen no official Government or Sikorsky announcement, just the press report, which quoted the receiving units - a credible source, imho. |
Sorry CEFOSKEY
I got it wrong. I meant 2 to 3 years as written about here. http://www.canada.com/globaltv/natio...0-8f85b0ce52c5 |
Lucie Brosseau, a spokeswoman for Public Works and Government Services Canada, said the contract with Sikorsky "allows for an excusable delay." However, she there would be discussions with the company "and fact-finding" about whether the delay is excusable. Paul Jackson, a spokesman for Sikorsky, confirmed the company was talking with government but couldn't say much more. "The Cyclone will be the most sophisticated maritime helicopter in the world," he said. "We are working with the government to address issues that have impacted delivery schedules and to allow for delivery as soon as possible." |
Listening to a high ranking CAF officer discussing Canadas helicopter plans earlier this week it was noticeable that the H-92 didn't feature...and he clearly had given up on forecasting delivery !
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Uh-Oh. (again)
Cost overruns endanger copter deal
Ottawa warns it could kill contract after U.S.-based Sikorsky requests up to $500-million more in its bid to replace aging Sea Kings DANIEL LEBLANC and STEVEN CHASE AND BRIAN LAGHI From Wednesday's Globe and Mail April 30, 2008 at 1:30 AM EDT OTTAWA — Federal officials are threatening to cancel a $5-billion contract with Sikorsky Inc. because the U.S.-based helicopter maker is asking for up to $500-million in extra funds to replace Canada's 40-year-old Sea Kings. Senior sources said the relationship between Ottawa and Sikorsky took a turn for the worse after the firm acknowledged this year that it was running late in its plans to provide 28 high-tech Cyclone helicopters to the Canadian Forces. The government's controversial efforts to replace the Sea Kings, which go back to the early 1990s, are now complicated by Sikorsky's request for more funds to deliver replacement helicopters. Sikorsky officials refused to comment on the current negotiations, but senior federal officials said the company has requested between $250-million and $500-million in new funding. Sikorsky Inc. won a competition in 2004 to provide 28 Cyclone helicopters to the military, agreeing to deliver the first helicopter in January of 2009. Now, sources say, delivery could be delayed by nearly two years. (The Canadian Press) Sources said there is talk in government that the Cyclones need a “more powerful engine” to meet Canada's requirements, and that delivery could be delayed by nearly two years even with additional money. High-ranking sources said the contract dispute is causing concerns at the highest levels of the government, and that cancellation of the contract is a possibility. If new funding were to be offered, the government would be seeking ironclad guarantees that Sikorsky would deliver the aircraft at the new agreed-upon time. “All of the options are on the table,” a federal official said. “We can cancel or come to a compromise.” The Conservative government of Brian Mulroney had ordered new helicopters to replace the Sea Kings in 1992, but former Liberal prime minister Jean Chrétien cancelled the purchase as soon as he came to power the following year. Conservative officials are still furious at the Liberal decision, arguing that the deal would have already allowed the Canadian Forces to replace the Sea Kings with Cormorant helicopters. Sikorsky won a competition in 2004 to provide 28 helicopters to replace the fleet of Sea Kings. At contract signing, Sikorsky agreed to deliver the first helicopter in January of next year. The maximum penalty on the contract for late delivery is $36-million. Sikorsky president Jeffrey Pino was in Ottawa recently to discuss the delays in the production of the Cyclones with government officials. A spokesman for Sikorsky, however, refused to elaborate on the ongoing negotiations. “We hope to have an agreement within the next several weeks, by the end of May,” company spokesman Paul Jackson said. The government is now working to determine when it can take delivery of the first helicopter, and what it needs to do to get there. “Once we have completed our review of the contractor's claimed reasons for delay, we will be in a position to determine Canada's next steps,” said Lucie Brosseau, a spokeswoman for Public Works Canada. “Canada is keeping all of its contractual and legal options open to minimize delay in procuring new maritime helicopters,” she said. A defence source said that the government is in discussions with Sikorsky to determine “what capabilities could be delivered and at what point.” Another government official said there are concerns within the government regarding the aircraft that will be delivered by Sikorsky. The issue, according to the source, is “a perception that Sikorsky cannot deliver a helicopter that is compliant to what was ordered.” However, sources in the defence industry said a cancellation of the contract would not help the Canadian Forces meet their original need, which is to replace the Sea King helicopters as soon as possible. “There is no plan for what they could do after,” an industry specialist said. “Whether they like it or not, [the government and Sikorsky] are married.” General Rick Hillier, the Chief of the Defence Staff, has expressed frustration at the delay in the delivery of the helicopters. “We just need to get an aircraft, we need to get it quickly, and we'd like to have it in service as soon as we possibly can,” he said earlier this year. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...30.wchoppers30 |
It's simple really - anything involving Airbus, Eurocopter or Augusta Westland is crap, was awarded through political deviancies/exigencies, will be delayed and cost millions to sort out, anything Boeing or Sikorsky is great, the best thing since sliced bread, and any detractors are talking arse.
Easy! B787 anybody? |
...the Cyclones need a “more powerful engine”... |
The USMC needed this type of leadership on the V-22
Ottawa refuses to pay extra for helicopters
Sikorsky must live up to $5-billion contract, Public Works Minister says DANIEL LEBLANC From Thursday's Globe and Mail May 1, 2008 at 5:03 AM EDT OTTAWA — The Harper government refused yesterday to fork over any extra cash to Sikorsky Inc., which has asked for hundreds of millions in additional funds to deliver promised helicopters to the Canadian Forces. Issuing a warning that applies to all federal suppliers, Public Works Minister Michael Fortier said Sikorsky has to live up to its $5-billion contracts to provide 28 Cyclone helicopters to replace Canada's 40-year-old Sea Kings. "When the government signs a deal with a supplier for a specific good at price X, that's the price the government should pay for that good," said Mr. Fortier, a lawyer and former banker. "Where I come from, a price is not an approximation, it's not an estimate. ... In this case, the price was set at contract signing." Sikorsky won a competition in 2004 to replace Canada's aging fleet of Sea King maritime helicopters. At signing, the firm agreed to deliver the first replacement aircraft next January. But Sikorsky told the government earlier this year that it will not meet the original deadline, invoking a delay of up to 30 months. Senior government officials told The Globe and Mail this week that Sikorsky is also asking for $250-million to $500-million in extra funding to give additional power to its helicopter. However, Mr. Fortier said the U.S.-based firm has to find a way to meet its contract. If that doesn't happen, he made a thinly veiled threat to cancel the deal and find another way to replace the Sea Kings, which are nearing the end of their life cycle. "I gave clear direction to my deputy minister that he was to try and break the logjam and find a solution, but at the same time, we are working, as we should be, on alternative solutions if we can't come to an agreement with the supplier," Mr. Fortier said in an interview. There is hope in government that a solution could flow from the fact that the newly installed chief executive officer at Sikorsky's parent company, United Technologies Corp., is Quebecker Louis Chênevert. Sikorsky officials are refusing to comment on discussions with the government, except to say the goal is to reach an agreement by the end of the month. Government officials have been told that the prototypes for the Cyclones are struggling to reach key requirements set out by National Defence, such as conducting a typical anti-submarine mission in two hours and 50 minutes. There is speculation in the aircraft industry that Sikorsky wants to provide the Canadian Forces with a helicopter that has a more powerful engine, a bigger gearbox and a fifth rotor, which would allow it to meet all requirements. However, such a helicopter would be more costly than the original four-bladed version proposed by Sikorsky. The Conservative government of Brian Mulroney had ordered new helicopters to replace the Sea Kings in 1992, but former Liberal prime minister Jean Chrétien cancelled the purchase as soon as he came to office in 1993. "If the previous government had respected the contract that had been signed, we wouldn't be here, because we would already have the helicopters. They made a decision and they'll have to live with it," Mr. Fortier said. NDP MP Dawn Black said replacing the Sea Kings has been a "saga of ineptitude" involving both the previous Liberal and the current Conservative governments. |
Ottawa has it dead right: not a dime more for Sikorsky
The Gazette Published: 3 hours ago The tragicomic running saga of buying helicopters to replace the Canadian Forces' decrepit Sea Kings added another chapter last week. Sikorsky, a division of United Technologies Corp., is trying to shake down Canadian taxpayers for an extra quarter of a billion dollars - or maybe half a billion dollars. Why? The answer could be summed up in one word: "Oops." The helicopter maker, which won the $5-billion order in 2004 for 28 Cyclone choppers, has decided, after careful consideration, that it will need those extra hundreds of millions to meet all the specifications and produce an aircraft that can perform all the jobs that Canadian Forces explained in great detail to all bidders a mere 17 years ago. The additional swag will pay for more powerful engines and for five-blade rotors instead of four-bladed ones. Not on your life, replied Public Works Minister Michael Fortier. That might have been a shock to Sikorsky - defence procurement is usually pretty clubby - but it is an admirable stance, and we hope Fortier sticks to it. His position is not just limpid, but appears unassailable legally: "When the government signs a deal with a supplier for a specific good at price X," Fortier said, "that's the price the government should pay for that good ... A price is not an approximation; it's not an estimate." He then hinted unmistakably that unless Sikorsky fulfills its obligations at the agreed-upon price, Canada will look elsewhere for a supplier. That should not be an empty threat. It has been 17 years since Ottawa decided to replace the Sea Kings, and the aged machines have been involved in 10 deaths. This fiasco over the choppers has truly been a bi-partisan effort. Both the Liberals and Conservatives have played with this deal over the years to gain political mileage. Fortier's pushback against Sikorsky is a refreshing change from business as usual. Seventeen years is enough. Sikorsky should deliver the helicopters with the capabilities it promised when it won the deal. And at the price it promised. |
Now would it make a difference if they altered the order, possibly keep the five blades however drop the fly by wire option?
For that matter just get on board with the civilian operators who are already enjoying the success of the aircraft. What would the benefit of fly by wire (on the 92 specifically) be? |
The additional swag will pay for more powerful engines and for five-blade rotors instead of four-bladed ones. |
Cyclone Fly by wire
I believe that fly by wire is primarily being installed to off-set the weight being added by installing the main and tail rotor fold mechanisms and other sundry items?
So let’s review; forty-eight months from contract award to develop, test, certify and put into production a complete new and untested control system, haul down and deck securing system, foldable tail and main rotor, weapon carrying capability plus all of that electronic gadgetry in the back. (And still try to convince yourself that it is still a COTS aircraft). I believe that Sikorsky builds the best maritime helicopters in the World and if anyone could have pulled this off it would have been them, however I suppose that the impossible takes a little longer. All of this kinds of begs the question of why did AW quietly drop their law suite against the Canadian Government recently? The law suite was based on the opinion that Sikorsky would not be able to meet the contract, specifically the 48 month time line and therefore should have been eliminated from the bidding. Apparently they were right. :confused::confused::confused::confused: |
I guess if they have trouble getting funding for more powerful engines they could always add a third. Add an extra rotor blade, make the cabin a bit larger, rename it Chimo or Petrel and I reckon you'll end up with. . . . well, pretty much what they could have had in the mid-late 90's.
Ho hum. . . . . (edited May 12th) Remarkable how quiet this particular topic has become since Sikorsky all but admitted what Canada really needed was a Merlin and asked for another half billion dollars to build it for 'em. One can't help but quote ZH844 from those halcyon days of 2004 when Sikorsky won:- " I would be careful with the comments as give it five years and you will be eating tons of humble pie!" Oops! Two's up on yer crystal ball ZH! |
I won't say I told you so.....
My man on the inside tells me that the Canadian Government has requested a meeting with 'another supplier' to discuss the purchase of a Sea King replacement aircraft due to problems with their current airframe vendor.
The 'another supplier' is based in North America with partners in the UK and Italy who will manufacture the airframe.. The rest is up to you to work out! |
Oh lordy......meet with a new builder of helicopters....let's kick this can a bit further down the lane shall we?:ugh:
The Government made the decision to replace the Sea King seventeen years ago.....before they decided not to replace it.....and decided to replace it....and now they want to replace the aircraft they wanted/did not want/wanted....and they have not laid hands of the first one yet?:mad: Perhaps Lockheed can build one for them like the US Prez aircraft which is so much further down the production ine?:{ In the end they could buy CH-53K's for what they are spending on paper helicopters.:ooh: |
SAS Less - /CH53K
SASLess:
Although the CH-53 may be available by 2012 (0r 2015, if it follows the pattern of Sikorsky's reported progress on the H-92), it could have some difficulty landing on the decks of small frigates. With respect to the Presidential aircraft, I note that although the contract was let some time after Sikorsky's Canadian contract, the first US101 test aircraft flew a year ago, and they now have several hundred flight test hours on that and another one. Sikorsky has yet to fly prototype 1 of the Canadian version. At least the reported H-92 rate of progress is consistent with the extended development period of the original S-92. That period, though, is hardly a knock on Sikorsky. It is perfectly understandable that an entirely company funded development may have been constrained by available funds. It seems that almost all airframers have gotten in the habit of making solemn promises of rapid development and delivery and then suffering scorn and ignominy when the development time turns out to be just as the old wise heads would have said. (Airbus A380, Boeing 787, JSF being only the most recent examples) Companies today are run by the marketeers. The pilots and engineers left after the cuts of the late '90s don't have the ear of management, perhaps partly because of lesser experience, perhaps partly because no one wants a realist (dour pessimist in a marketeers lexicon) to dampen the rosy predictions. The other main problem is that customers are more naive, and it is easy to believe brochure claims for nonexistent aircraft. Such vehicles haven't yet demonstrated their flaws, while off the shelf aircraft have documented problems and limitations. It seems we are seeing some of the corollaries of Norm Augustine's laws being demonstrated. |
I still wonder why AW dropped their lawsuit against the Cdn Government. The lawsuit was based on the notion that Sikorsky could not deliver within 48 months of contract award, as was clearly stated in the contract requirements, and therefore should have been found non-compliant and eliminated. They quietly dropped the suit about six months ago in order to normalize the Cdn Gov/AW relationship in order to be considered for future work. Not at all like AW to walk away like that?
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Cyclone 1st Flight
CH-148 Cyclone Helicopter Completes 1st Flight Successfully (West Palm Beach, Fla., November 17, 2008) -- The first CH-148 Cyclone helicopter, which is being developed by Sikorsky Aircraft Corp. for the Canadian government as a replacement for its long-serving SEA KING(TM) helicopter fleet, has completed its first flight successfully at Sikorsky's Development Flight Center in Florida. Sikorsky is a subsidiary of United Technologies Corp. (NYSE: UTX). The flight occurred Saturday, Nov. 15. Steered by Sikorsky Test Pilots John Armbrust and Rick Becker using state-of-the-art, fly-by-wire technology, the aircraft hovered and accomplished low-speed handling tasks including forward flight at speeds reaching 30 knots, and sideward and rearward maneuvers. The helicopter, Tail No. 801, will continue to undergo a series of increasingly demanding flight tests leading up to certification and production deliveries. Sikorsky will build 28 CH-148 helicopters for the Canadian government. "The CH-148 helicopter will be a world leader in sophistication and capability for maritime helicopters," said Program Manager Dan Hunter. "Today's successful first flight represents a huge milestone, transitioning the program from the prototype build to the flight test stage. The aircraft performed beautifully, easily achieving each maneuver attempted. We're extremely pleased." The CH-148 helicopter represents the next step in Sikorsky's long planned extension of the S-92(R) helicopter into the H-92(TM) helicopter product line. It is equipped with a fully digital, fly-by-wire system designed to improve significantly the aircraft's maneuverability, safety and effectiveness. The CH-148 helicopter further builds upon Sikorsky's rugged S-92 helicopter, which meets the most demanding safety standards in North America and Europe. Among the most sophisticated rotary wing aircraft in the world, the production CH-148 helicopter will be an extremely versatile, multi-mission aircraft with capabilities including anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface warfare, search and rescue, and troop and cargo transport. It will be fully equipped for ship-based operations including automatic blade and tail fold systems and a deck to aircraft recovery assist system. Capitalizing on proven S-92 helicopter capabilities that include a glass cockpit with advanced avionics, systems allowing flight into known icing conditions, flaw tolerant components and state-of-the-art search and rescue equipment, the CH-148 helicopter will incorporate additional mission systems including Forward- Looking Infrared Radar (FLIR), 360 degree search radar, passive and active acoustics systems, threat surveillance and countermeasure capabilities, and network link communications. "The stringent qualification and certification standards of the S-92 helicopter will be further extended through the Canadian military certification process resulting in an aircraft that will meet the most exacting civil and military standards in the world," said Hunter. "Its proven and expanded design focused on reliability, maintainability and safety will provide operational capabilities at world-class life cycle support cost levels." |
What is new? most products don't work as described, or have built in problems that the end user has to put up with until the manufacturer finds time to correct, ( strange how the user finds them in a few days\ weeks after all the testing that is done).
Delivery dates!! Well we think of one then hope we can get it finished or hope that customer wants change so as to extend delivery . You may guess I have delivery \ functional problems with a supplier, it requires someone who can deliver a bit of pain to manufacturers to focus the sales marketing departments on reality. A lot of products are UPOS. Rant over :{ |
Originally Posted by plt_aeroeng
Companies today are run by the marketeers. The pilots and engineers left after the cuts of the late '90s don't have the ear of management, perhaps partly because of lesser experience, perhaps partly because no one wants a realist (dour pessimist in a marketeers lexicon) to dampen the rosy predictions.
When did any of us look at an amber caption (through rose tinted helmet visor) and say - oh, I am sure it will be OK, let's ignore it. Thankfully we ARE trained to be dour pessimists! It is a shame this is only recognized as an attribute in the cockpit! |
Plt....
My point was not to actually suggest the 53K be bought....but to point out the amount of money that has already been spent for paper helicopters would pay for brand spanking new 53K's. That even by government standards is a pot full of money to go no good end. Which is a situation that should result in someone being hung from the yard arm! |
The picture:
http://www.flugrevue.de/admin/dateie...tflug_zoom.jpg Sikorsky CH-148 makes its first flight on 15 November 2008 (Photo: Sikorsky). Regards Aser |
nice paint job :ok:
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...oh... you want paint... we will have to add a fifth blade to lift the weight. It could put us back a few years as well, you know...
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Cyclones fail endurance test - Winnipeg Free Press
"Paul Jackson, a spokesman for Sikorsky, confirmed the interim maritime helicopter will be 10 to 20 minutes short of the 170-minute requirement." "He added that the company will achieve the requirement by decreasing the aircraft's weight and improving the engine's power capabilities and transmission." I tell my wife I'm going to lose weight too :) What is the curent S92 endurance in standard offshore config. |
We don't know the mission profile being set, so can't make a comparison. It's clearly not a straight cruise profile - more likely a high speed cruise with some loitering and/or hovering involved. Current offshore aircraft will cruise for over 3 hours with reserves. Even with a fuel burn of 1600 lb/hr you'd have 3 hours and a 15 minute reserve - and that's way above typical fuel burn (nearer 1400 lb/hr)
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Cyclones fail endurance test - Winnipeg Free Press
Cyclones fail endurance test But colonel sure contract will be met By: Michael Tutton 19/08/2009 1:00 AM | Ottawa agreed to pay $5 billion in 2004 for 28 Sikorsky Cyclone helicopters. HALIFAX -- The Canadian officer who will oversee the first flights of Canada's new fleet of navy helicopters next year says the choppers currently can't pass an endurance test that requires them to fly for nearly three hours in extreme conditions. "It (the helicopter) falls short of the endurance requirement as allowed under the revised contract," Col. Sam Michaud, commander of Nova Scotia's 12 Wing Shearwater airbase, said. The MH-92 Cyclone helicopter's original contract had specified that 28 choppers be delivered, at a rate of one per month, beginning in November 2008. However, a revised contract announced last year allowed for the delivery to begin in November 2010. It also doesn't require the choppers to meet the 170-minute flying time until after the 19th helicopter has been delivered in 2012. But Michaud said he's confident the Cyclones will satisfy the requirement, and that the aging fleet of Sea King choppers can operate until then. Still, he agreed there will be some limits -- such as shorter missions and the need to use more helicopters to perform the same mission -- until the endurance requirement is met. "So right now, the issue with the interim maritime helicopters is they're having some challenges getting to that endurance number that we've asked for," Michaud said. The base commander explained that the helicopter is heavier than originally expected, and as a result fuel is consumed more quickly. "That's why the whole weight issue is a big one," Michaud said. He said that's why the federal government requirement of flying two hours and 50 minutes in conditions where temperatures surpass 35 C won't be met when the first choppers arrive. Paul Jackson, a spokesman for Sikorsky, confirmed the interim maritime helicopter will be 10 to 20 minutes short of the 170-minute requirement. But he said the company has little doubt it can achieve the federal government's performance requirements under the revised contract. "Meeting the final configuration performance as required in the extreme conditions that this customer operates (in) is important," he said in an email. "We do not consider weight as a big issue." He added that the company will achieve the requirement by decreasing the aircraft's weight and improving the engine's power capabilities and transmission. Lianne LeBel, a spokeswoman for the Defence Department, said the final helicopter will have "an enhanced version" of the engine as designed in the original Cyclone. That engine will be designed to lift the 13,185 kilograms the helicopter is expected to weigh by 2012, she said. The government has said the new engines and other changes will add $117 million to the $5-billion cost. -- The Canadian Press Will it all end in tears or will the the Canadian government continue to lap up Sikorsky's excuses? |
And they turned down the 101
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And they turned down the 101 |
Variable Load said, "How unreasonable, given the fantastic service and availability the Cormorant (EH101) is giving in Canada at the moment."
??? What have you heard about recent service and availability of the Cormorant fleet? |
Nothing specific, just what's out in the public domain. There were a number of news articles recently about lack of availability, etc.
Here's one news extract from early June: Only half of the surveillance aircraft and rescue helicopters designated to guard Canada's coastlines are able to report for duty on any given day, newly released figures show. And that poor availability rate has defence critics wondering how the country would cope with a major disaster. Figures presented to the Senate security and defence committee show the air force is able to muster only nine of its 20 CP-140 [the fleet eventually will be reduced to 10] aging maritime patrol aircraft on any given day for surveillance of the country's three coastlines [two are now in Afstan--another pressure on the CF from the mission]. And just seven of the 14 CH-149 Cormorant search-and-rescue helicopters, purchased just a few years ago, can be called upon for duty. Figures for the antique CH-124 Sea Kings are even worse: a mere 10 out of 28 aircraft can be spooled up for operations aboard Canadian warships, senior defence officials told the committee. A defence analyst said it's clear the age of the air force fleet is catching up with the military as elderly aircraft spend more time in the shop and less time on the flight line. Rob Huebert of the University of Calgary also said it's a condemnation of the convoluted, dysfunctional procurement systems that have sidetracked or delayed replacement planes and helicopters. The air force has become a "thin blue line" despite the billions of dollars spent recently on new heavy-lift transports and battlefield helicopters, Huebert said in an interview. A senior air commander said late Tuesday the availability of aircraft is "always of concern" but the service is managing. Cheers VL |
Not sure where you got that from, VL, but I'd be looking for a new source. That clip is full of error and half-truths. Try some of the official sites.
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Not sure where you got that from, VL, but I'd be looking for a new source. That clip is full of error and half-truths. Try some of the official sites. Prior to the arrival of 15 CH-149 Cormorants, the Canadian’s operated a fleet of 12 CH-113/113A Labrador/Voyager’s in the SAR role. I believe that the Canadian’s were hoping for a 75% readiness rate for the their SAR platforms, but in June of this year, availability rates reported to the Senate Security and Defence Committee reached a meagre 50%. Last December, the findings of a report into poor availability of the Cormorant fleet suggested that in order to meet the target range at all four SAR bases and assuming an ideal access to spares, a fleet of 25 aircraft would be required. Availability of planes, helicopters worries defence watchers - Yahoo! Canada News Do you note a common thread here? |
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