Helicentre Aviation Academy's Cabri G2 fleet increases to five | Vertical Magazine - The Pulse of the Helicopter Industry

Another one has arrived in the UK this week. How many's that on the G-Reg now? 10? Does anyone have any statistics of Cabri numbers by country?

FB

Just seen the Savback ad in Helidata - they have two G2s for sale, both with TTAF of 4,400 hrs. That's pretty good going.

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Yes, they're the two fleet leaders.


There are two others G2 for sale in Germany, also due to fleet renewval.


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As the ac is on condition why would you want a new one for ? Makes no financial sense., the accountant would have been depreciating it for tax reasons, to sell it would make give quite a large tax liability ?????
So why sell one, could understand if coming up to lots of new parts

H500, It could be because of the internal policies and general operating philosophy.

Interesting what they want for the 4400hr machines price wise. They certainly seem to hold their value well. Are the german machines for sale as high time as these two?

Jelico

Haven't been sold yet !!!

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Hello Jelico,

Less than 3000h

You're still looking for a second hand G2 ?

In the last two weeks, a French one went to Holland and an Italian one went to Switzerland.


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Yes potentially in the market for a G2. Have an R44 up for rebuild soon and a new opportunity that might like a G2 even sooner. Preferably secondhand - please PM me if you know of anything, although I am not interested in the 4000hr+ machines at this stage! Cheers

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The best part of an interview of Bruno about the G2 in the US by Vertical Mag :


This year will mark the second appearance for the Hélicoptères Guimbal Cabri G2 at a Heli-Expo, but its first since gaining certification from the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).


The aircraft completed the 16-month certification process in February 2015, paving the way for its launch U.S. customer — Newberg, Ore.-based Precision Helicopters — to put the aircraft into full training operations at its flight school.


A successful debut at Heli-Expo in Anaheim, Calif., last year saw Guimbal, based in Aix-en-Provence, France, record 10 orders for the two-seater piston training aircraft from U.S. customers, and the first two of those have already been delivered.


While the aircraft has proved popular around the world since it gained its first regulatory type certificate from the European Aviation Safety Agency in 2007, Guimbal wanted to wait until the time was right to make the move into the U.S.


To begin with, the manufacturer found the sheer scale of the world’s largest civil helicopter market — and the high costs involved in entering it — were prohibitive to a company of its size and experience. But as the popularity and reputation of the Cabri G2 grew, Guimbal began to receive more and more enquiries about the possibility of bringing the aircraft to the U.S.


The manufacturer was looking for something very specific in its customers as it considered taking the Cabri G2 across the Atlantic. It wanted operators that were a training organization and an experienced FAA part 145 repair organization, and they needed to be prepared to order at least two helicopters.


These requirements, said Guimbal, were “because we can’t afford to have a small problem with a sensor or a wire destroying the image of the helicopter, simply because the maintenance specialist is 500 kilometers away.”


“The Cabri being introduced to the United States is going to be really a godsend for many of the training companies, because it’s a new technology, [and] it has very low maintenance costs — with a structure we hope will be very economically beneficial. There are only three components that are ‘time life’ on the aircraft, and then everything else is an ‘on condition’ component. . . It allows us to be proactive in a lot of our maintenance, and be good stewards of the aircraft — and then it’ll reward us in what we see in maintenance costs.”


Bruno Guimbal, the aircraft’s designer and the CEO and president of Hélicoptères Guimbal, said that while the aircraft was being used for a variety of utility roles in around the world, about 70 percent of the sales were for training.


“The market for two-seaters will always be based on training, because it’s a big market, and it’s the best helicopter for training,” he told Vertical Show News. “I designed the Cabri to be the best trainer that you could imagine. . . . [Its] qualities are particularly attractive for the training market.”


“We were very surprised and very pleased with the amount of interest we captured during Heli-Expo last year,” said Guimbal. “We had absolutely no plans to sign any orders — we brought with us no order papers — and then we ended up signing 10 orders on blank pieces of paper with people that we did not know about the day before. Then we started to realize completely that the U.S. market is something different because people are very dynamic and they’re in pretty good shape at the moment.”


Tailor-Made Trainer | Vertical Magazine - The Pulse of the Helicopter Industry


This year, he should have "few" order papers ready !



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mark
Hello Mark,

According to the latest news, the work should begin this year to reach certification in 2016.

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Bruno had a constant stream of visitors throughout the show. Got to chat with him a few times and mentioned about various orders they received :ok: Watch this space.

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For those who want to know how a G2 is build


Building a Guimbal Cabri G2 :






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G2 Cabri
 

I'm truly delighted to see the success of Bruno Guimbal's neat two-seat trainer. A new helicopter for the 21st Century.

It was a blustery day in February 2008, when Dave Calderwood, the Editor of the LOOP newspaper, dispatched me to Aix-en-Provence to try out a new EASA design.

As we floated alongside Cezanne's famous St Victoire mountain, I recall saying to myself ... and subsequently writing ... I'm on rung one of a ladder of success. A new type as French as the Eiffel tower with more curves than Nicolas Sarkozy's lady wife! An all-composite construction, a glass instrument presentation, plasma ignition, and a machine with dynamic components certified for 'on condition' replacement. All powered by a tried and trusted Lycoming that provides a 5 hour endurance. Autorotation and stroking seat crashworthiness was outstanding for a lightweight helicopter. Well done Bruno!

So, it is with a trace of satisfaction, I watch as the type gains ground in the industry. I see a couple of Cabris have made it into the 4000 hour TTSN area. So this is simply to offer my congratulations to Monsieur Guimbal and his team. No easy task getting a new type into EASA's CS-127 certification and I can only add, when can we expect the G4 to appear? Happy and many hours of safe flying to all.

I'll second that; I'm delighted by the success of this project and can't wait for the G4.

CRAN
:ok:

So for the G4, is a 5 seater with a turbine engine using the Cabri design philosophy doable? The G2 beats the R22 in lots of ways, however the R44 has fewer of the drawbacks of the R22. So a 4 seater piston isn't the step up from the 44 than the G2 is over the 22?
A competitor for the R66 though could be interesting.

The Cabri also has some support from the Rugby world. Sneak peek at one of the shots from a recent shoot - the guy flying the silver fern branded Cabri is none other than All Blacks captain Richie McCaw :ok:

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psc00dj0uo.jpg

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The 10th UK Cabri has been delivered to Elstree Helicopters.
There are now six ATO with G2 in UK.
13 G2 are on order so at the end of next year, there will be at least 23 G2 flying in UK.
HeliHub Elstree Helicopters takes delivery of 10th British Cabri

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From Helihub:

HeliHub Demand Identified for a Four Seat Cabri, Says Bruno Guimbal

Demand Identified for a Four Seat Cabri, Says Bruno Guimbal

Guimbal Helicopters president Bruno Guimbal announced at Heli-Expo that his company has 75 firm orders from 13 countries for his company’s Cabri G2 two-seat helicopter. Over 180 have now been sold since the first helicopter was launched into the market back in 2009.

Calculations reveal that the whole fleet has now logged over 50,000 flying hours with 90% of that being flown as training flights. “The fleet leader has 4,300 hours gained over four and a half years,” sated Guimbal. “There has been zero loss and zero injury; if we can succeed in training we can succeed in any market he said.

Noise levels have been an important target and the helicopter has been certified at 75.2 db.

The going has been difficult with many customers ordering just one to begin with. Heli Aviation in Germany had been the exception he said, as they eventually ordered a fleet of eight Cabris. The Helicentre in the UK, near Leicester, had been more cautious, initially only renting one helicopter. “Now they are 100% behind Cabri and have five with three more on order.

Other customers include Vietnam National Helicopters with a lot of bureaucracy to overcome, but they are now a loyal customer with great growth possibilities.

Guimbal said that he had received at least six firm prospects for a bigger four seat version of the Cabri – I have received stretched photos from customers showing what they want,” he added.

“The market is not so much price sensitive as trust sensitive,” concluded Guimbal. Direct operating costs are between $150-$200 per hour.

2-Seat Helicopter Prices
 

I think the two point's above are really interesting. If you were setting out to maximise revenue for a 2-seat machine (value x units sold), what would that price need to be?

When the R22 was introduced in 1979 it cost $40,000 if you use one of the online inflation calculators that comes out at around $131,000 in todays money and at that kind of price level they sold 400 units per year. It's now priced at $285,000 and they sell around 40 of them a year.

The R22 started in the realm of the expensive car buyer and is now much, much more expensive which would seem to make sense. There is of course the fact that the R44 came along which is a much better machine for a private owner, if you can afford it.

Is the above quote merely a facet of the fact that now only very wealthy private individuals can afford to purchase helicopters, in which case the safety and performance are much more important that the cost.

It would be very interesting to see if 2-seater sales levels of 400 units per year would return with a machine at around the $150,000 mark.

Obviously the cost of developing and certifying a machine are far higher these days, so its not really fair to compare the R22 and the G2, this is merely a discussion what effect escalating costs are having on the light helicopter market in general.

Looking forward to the G4!

CRAN
:ok:

2-Seat Helicopter Prices
 

I think the two point's above are really interesting. If you were setting out to maximise revenue for a 2-seat machine (value x units sold), what would that price need to be?

When the R22 was introduced in 1979 it cost $40,000 if you use one of the online inflation calculators that comes out at around $131,000 in todays money and at that kind of price level they sold 400 units per year. It's now priced at $285,000 and they sell around 40 of them a year.

The R22 started in the realm of the expensive car buyer and is now much, much more expensive which would seem to make sense in terms of the sales volume drop. There is of course the fact that the R44 came along which is a much better machine for a private owner, if you can afford it.

Is the above quote merely a facet of the fact that now only very wealthy private individuals can afford to purchase helicopters, in which case the safety and performance are much more important that the cost. At the 1979 relative price level anyone who could afford a fancy car could afford an R22, surely this is the crux of the matter.

It would be very interesting to see if 2-seater sales levels of 400 units per year would return with a machine at around the $150,000 mark.

Obviously the cost of developing and certifying a machine are far higher these days, so its not really fair to compare the R22 and the G2, this is merely a discussion what effect escalating costs are having on the light helicopter market in general.

Looking forward to the G4!

CRAN
:ok:

Cran,

Examination of the R22 pricing says something to me;

Lawsuits are expensive!

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The second Precision Helicopters' G2 exposed at the HAI is starting today a road trip / road show from Orlando to Portland (is new home).

The stops should be Macon, Mobile, Baton rouge, Houston, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Boise and Big Bend.

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CRAN & Freewheel

Your comments regarding historical R22 pricing prompted me to dig out the original invoice for my first R22 which was invoiced to me in December 1988 at $103,550 ex works.

The price list, dated August 1987, that came with the sales material shows the list price at $91,850 to which I added the auxiliary fuel tank, heater, removable dual controls, fire extinguisher, vertical compass, millibar altimeter, transponder, and VOR.

From $40,00 to almost $92,000 in eight years.

The same sales literature also listed the base price of the 300c at $132,000 and the 280F at $159,400 for comparison.

Costs
 

I can't help thinking that we are stuck in a vicious circle. The high prices, limit the sales volumes, which in turn increases the cost of new products by forcing new manufactures to base the amertisation of R&D and setup costs on smaller numbers of machines.

I wonder if as a community of helicopter buyers we could act as a buying group and work more closely with willing manufacturers to secure a lower price if we could collectively order say 1000 units over the next five years?



CRAN
:ugh:

@CRAN: Great plan. Good luck with finding 1000 buyers. Also keep in mind you might have to wait 15 years until delivery of the 1000th unit. Have fun with the paperwork... :E

Given the very long model production-life, amortisation would seem to be a bit of a red-herring....surely a return on development capital would be more appropriate, when most production-runs are going to be around 50 years for a proper design like the Cabri.
A low margin will mean better sales, which ,in turn, will give a better profit volume.....It's the old TESCO*maxim....pile it high, sell it cheap.
Mr. Cohen was happy to make a penny on a bag of sugar and sell a thousand.....whilst his competitor made 5 pence a bag and only sold a hundred.

Yes, I know it's a huge simplification, but the basic principle holds good.
Mr. Guimbal is obtaining a realistic return for his endeavours and seems to have a very healthy order-book.....his standing costs (buildings, plant,machinery) are already covered to ramp -up production to keep his factory buzzing , say 16 hours a day, will (assuming a present 8-hour day)
will double (almost) his labour and materials costs, ditto with fuel, Power etc.
THEREFORE , THE COST PER UNIT WILL TUMBLE.
If this is in part passed on in a more attractive price, the potential owner-base will expand exponentially.

Unlike other "budget" helicopters, the Cabri is well-designed, inherently "right", with no cost-cutting in critical areas....the result, as we are seeing, is a long-life, reliable machine which is not going to "calendar" out of time nor , it seems, suffer main-blade failures or other critical -component recalls for expensive rectification.

If I were a pilot, looking for a small ,modern 2-seat machine, I would buy one in a heartbeat.

I must confess the lack of warranty, back when it was initially marketed, seemed to me to be a fatal ,basic , marketing error.

I was wrong....better qualified people than me, evaluated the product, paid their cash, and have proved that they and Mr Guimbal have sound judgement.

It is great to see a business like this making a terrific sucsess of a "right first time" product. :D:D:D

Is it worth pointing out that the Cabri will probably never be profitable over the lifetime of the aircraft? It is just a 'loss leader'.

However, the real money with come from the French military UAV which will be/is developed from the Cabri technology.

Are you serious Bravo73 ?

You are quite obviously a very loyal Cabri salesman, HeliHenri, but yep, I'm deadly serious: New JV gives Eurocopter foothold in UAV market - 6/14/2005 - Flight Global

Well, I'm sorry to tell you that you're deadly wrong now but I must admit that you could have been right a long time ago.

You're refering to a ten years old article and if you read it till the end, you'll find "The next step would be a preliminary procurement contract with a target in-service date of 2008" !!!!.

Vertivison, the joint venture still exist but if you check, you'll find that it's turnover was last year 0 euro.

So the French army and navy don't pay the bills.

I don't think that Bruno Guimbal worked so hard for so many years (including the CS27 certification) just to make an UAV.

P.S : thanks for the compliment but I'm not a Guimbal salesman.

The potential for a few hundred G2 sales vs the potential for a few thousand UAV sales? This has always been about the UAV!

Your multiple posts on this thread would seem to indicate otherwise.

HH strikes me as an industry insider in EU helicopter aviation but never as an employee or salesman for Guimbal.

One doesn't need to be to be an enthusiastic supporter of a fine product.

If this was all about the UAV then why on *earth* would Guimbal have bothered with the expensive ball-ache that is certification?

Bravo73
Well, I must say that I'm a bit disappointed now, you could have said :

"The quality of your statements on this thread would seen to indicate otherwise" :cool:



Thanks krypton_john :)

Henri, you are doing just fine :ok:

Bravo73, than I am guilty too, just like HeliHenri :cool:

Hi folks,

remind me of a similar story while I was a client at bristow academy florida: I went to see to chief pilot and with couples documentations and points about how sweet the cabri must be as a trainer. Just to let them know that a new trainer was on its way ( was times ago like 2007 and no EASA certif yet let alone FAA one) and might be interesting bet for them... which he understand I think since he suggested that Mr Guimbal should come along as a guest on their HAI Stand for 08...

then the chief pilot look at me and says: re you working for them or something?

Jaw dropped, I spontaneously replied: f**k me no way I am not working for them (even thought I wished!) but I just thought that Mr Guimbal deserved a worldwide publicity for its insane work in particular during the 2000 era doing all on its own for certifying such an aircraft within the european aviation regultion...

might have cost me some disgraced among the company potentials employers for saying "f**k me"... but hey, excuse my french but I am french though!

Guilty too then!


davy

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G2 Modern Art

http://img1.planespotters.net/photo/...Net_587533.jpg

Click on the picture to enlarge
Photographer : Diopere geert

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New mission : Frontier Helicopters from NZ is operating two G2 onbord tuna boats around Salomon Islands.
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Fixed/Utility Floats and A/C for G2?
 

Does anyone know of or has anyone heard anything about fixed/utility floats for the Cabri G2? I'm aware emergency pop out floats are an option just wondering about the fixed type. Also wondering about the Air Conditioning option which was once indicated on the website as "available ??" whereas now it indicates "contact for availability"?

Are you thinking about a fixed float like on the R44 Clipper?
It does not exist on the Cabri. The automatic inflatable system only is available.