Would you become a Professional Pilot again?
 

The quote is part of an answer I gave a Wannabee, reflecting what I believe to be the majority view expressed on the forum over the years.
B. Sousa disagrees strongly.

What do others think?

Note: I've split the thread because it became two separate discussions.


Heliport....How could you do this to the poor guy. "freedom of being a professional helicopter pilot."
Thats an all inclusive statement with the following:
1. Low Pay
2. No Retirement
3. Adverse Living Conditions
4. Long Hours
5. Overworked and Abused Aircraft
6. Zero Job Security
7. And the knowledge that if you turn down a mission based on Aircraft Performance/Weather, you will probably be unemployed.

All this after you have spent years to gain the necesssary experience and many thousands of Dollars/Pounds/Rand/ Pesos.

Fire Away

Hope you don't mind Bert. Interesting points being made.
Heliport

If I were you I'd change jobs Bert.

Bert was just being realistic. The "enjoyment and freedom" of being a professional helicopter pilot? Oh please. Yeah, there are some visceral rewards in our "profession," but to say they outweigh the advantages of being a 747 captain for BA is just immature nonsense. I personally know plank drivers who - believe it or not - absolutely LOVE what they do! Imagine that! I dearly wish I'd followed my late father's wishes and not pursued rotorcraft as a career.

We are helicopter pilots because we are underacheivers. We could all likely do better if we wanted to. Aspiring pilots who voluntarily come into our corner of the industry should do it with their eyes open; this still ain't a great career and likely never will be..."enjoyment and freedom" notwithstanding.

Hey,

I can't speak for Bert and Flare and, yes, they may have valid points of view - from their perspectives..., I've worked for some pretty rotten operators and have had similar thoughts from time to time. I have, however been lucky enough to find a great position with a great operator with whom I'm looking forward to finishing out my career.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade here Bert but I'm getting:

1. Adequate pay,
2. Retirement,
3. I own my own place and when I'm away from la casa the crew quarters are top of the line, (I even get a company car)
4. Can't do anything about the hours - that's the nature of "the beast", but I do get compensated accordingly,
5. I get to fly fairly new and extremely well maintained aircraft,
6. Job security? Who has job security - anywhere? Be honest?
7. Within reason and actual conditions, no one exceeds either their personal or the aircraft's operational capabilities. In the same context we are expected to operate to our (and aircraft) limits when called upon to do so.

And I've never considered myself to be an underacheiver. I happen to like what I do and I choose to stay in the business (for thirty years now) simply because of that fact. I have managed to acheive a lot in my life - in fact, I've done almost everything that I've wanted to do and have seen almost everything I've wanted to see. What I haven't done or seen, I'll get around to it in the next twenty years. I do not allow my profession to stand in my way.

Several years ago I got this wild hair that I'd like to move into the "big leagues" and I shelled out a few bucks for starched-wing lessons (I was already counting the $300K a year I would be making with FedEx or some of the others). It took all of three hours to figure out that I'd be one unhappy SOB at the end of every day.

Now, please Flare, don't take offense here because I'm not directing this toward you, you have a good point in that; there are quite a few underacheivers in this industry. But, in my opinion, the underacheivers are the pilots who are tired, miserable, pissed-off, hate what they do, hate who they work for, the aircraft they fly, etc..., and do nothing to change that. No where in the "Golden Book of Rotary Wing Aviation" does it state that everything you desire will be handed to you when you walk through the door. Conversely, no where does it state that you are required to stay in a position or with an operator who treats you like applebutter. (I'm a crusty ol' bastard in my old age)

With all of that said, robpowell69, should you choose to chase the dream, best of luck. There are a variety of paths you may choose to follow; offshore, utility, external load, corporate, EMS, electronic news, tours..., - good jobs, not so good jobs. Heck, who says you can't run your own operation? It may take you a while to acheive your goals, but you can have a lot of fun getting there (yeah, yeah..., you may have to eat some crap along the way and it's hard work and sometimes it feels as though you're sucking on the fuzzy end of the popsicle stick...).

Last of all, looking back, I wouldn't change a thing. Guess I'm the lucky one.

Good luck,

C Ya

Well said Desert Dude - and you are not the only one.

Hey Desert Dude-

Happy that you found your little slice of helicopter nirvana. Trouble is, yours is the exception rather than the rule.

The helicopter industry is tiny. Just how many actual positions like Desert Dude's do we think there are out there...100, tops? Maybe not even that many. And this is something that pilots want/try to aspire to?

The sad irony is that a new helicopter pilot cannot even direct his career to end up at Desert Dude's job. Oh, he might aim in that general direction, but too many outside factors will come into play for robpowell69 to say, "Yes, I'm going to have Desert Dude's job one day!" Get real. Desert Dude lucked-out and he knows it. Or he should.

Meanwhile, the path to the left seat of an airliner is clearly marked. While you or I (e.g. older guys) very well might not end up making $300,000/year, the financial rewards are certainly there. Hey, I'd would even take $100,000/year with all the other bennies that come with being a captain for an airline. Because *THAT* is certainly and easily do-able, even at my age. Can we say the same about helicopters? Nope.

Ol' Desert Dude evidently doesn't like being called an underacheiver. He obviously could be doing anything he set his mind to. He said himself that he had his sights on a FedEx airline job once, but settled for being a helicopter pilot and righteously defends the choice. Good for him! But being an underacheiver has little to do with our own personal goals, and everything to do with what we are capable of.

Some of us have a neurotic need to fly helicopters, I suppose - something I've never quite understood. I've always loved to fly both fixed-wing and rotary...just LOVE to fly! And hopefully, I'll continue to fly for a long time to come.

Helicopters are not magic. They're just machines that do a job...machines that will kill you quick if you let your attention lapse for even a second. Yeah, they're neat and cool. Whoopee. Young pilots ask me all the time, "Man, how could you EVER get tired of flying helicopters??" They ask it with such a breathless, wide-eyed, disbelieving tone...the kind of look I used to have on my face, I guess, when I thought I wouldn't be able to breath without being a helicopter pilot. I say, call me back in twenty years and 10,000 hours. It's just a damn aircraft.

And it's not that I'm tired of them. It's just that if I never saw another helicopter ever again...that'd be okay. Really. I don't want to fly them for money anymore. Call me...

Mr. Underacheiver No More

Wow,

Flare, it's a shame you didn't find your "piece of the pie". Hope it all works out for ya. However, I still have to disagree with you regarding the underachiever part. You stated:

**"But being an underacheiver has little to do with our own personal goals, and everything to do with what we are capable of." **

Is that to imply I should have been a trauma surgeon simply because I am capable of it? If so, then yes, I am an underachiever, BIG TIME. But, in doing so, what exactly have I achieved? Looking at it from another prospective, shouldn't we also aspire to be happy and content with our lives? As I earlier stated, I wouldn't be happy as a fixed-wing pilot, nor would I be happy as a banker or an attorney or a doctor, etc...

Call me what you like, I don't mind - I'll just be the happiest, most contented underachiever around this neck of the woods... as I walk off into the sunset while the rotorblades slowly unwind.

*****If you want it - get after it, robpowell69!!! Why don't you talk to that Whirly-whatever-her-name is from the other post. Sounds as if she's got something going on.

Anyway, good luck to all.

C Ya

Disappointed at the general attitude of the rotary brotherhood!!!!'Underachievers' indeed!!

I went fixed wing with the rest in the late 80's got command got loads of money paid off the morgages of two houses and now enjoying the freedom of helicopters again.. Fixed wing flying is easy!! Helicoptering is a joy!!

I feel better now

This is not my post. Although now showing under my name, it was posted by Steve76 It didn't transfer with the others so I moved it.

At the very worst of it (and we can trade horror employment stories if you want), it still rates miles above the 5yrs I did on the workshop floor.
Spare a thought for the poor individuals who pump your gas or work the counter at Tims, Canadian Tire and the host of other mass employers. Some really never had a choice as to their future.

I think any person who attempts a "career" as a pilot can never be considered an "underachiever". The only underachiever is the person who gives up after the first couple of years of job searching, unemployment or constant rejection.

It seems also that plenty of helicopter drivers think the slabwing guys are raking it in. WRONG!

I have been a part of aviation since the 70's and can confirm that the only ones on the six figure incomes are the heavy drivers. It takes a lifetime to get into those jobs.

Eg: I was chatting with a lear driver in Windsor the other day. He drives a 10,000,000 aircraft has 3000hrs + 1000hrs on the lear = $35000 Canadian a year.
Most guys I know can easily double that in a summer. Its only taken them 3-5yrs to reach that level.

As for manipulating your career, it only takes some strategic planning and a little awareness that all the advice you will receive is not all good.
For instance; there are those who think co-pilot time is worthless. WRONG. Cojoe time is gold. It is the link from the bush to the city. Get it where and whenever you can.

I once went from the S76C to a B47 and back again after 3yrs on the 76. I felt I needed the change and a new challenge. 2yrs later hopping back to the 76 was just a matter of looking and waiting.

Ask how many robbie/JR/hughes drivers are sick of their jobs. Now see how long they have been stuck in the rut. Ask them what their ambitions were at the start. Was all their thinking about chasing deer, mustering, heliskiing and flying robbies or maybe a AS350?
They have not continued their education and development of new skills. Most have multi thousand of hours out bush. Have earned hundreds of thousands of dollars and never bothered to investigate an IFR ticket! No forethought. They are all great drivers but all the complaining at age 40 about how they would like to be home etc.... its no one elses fault but theirs.

SO! is it easy. NO is the definate answer. Wages and conditions are abysmal for a long time. Its hard on the kids and wife. But at the end of the day I look foward to going to work. I get a great office, stimulation, job satisfaction and I feel I am living and not just existing through the weekly grind.

How to get a Job?
Get a licence and go to Africa, Nothern Canada, South America, a tuna boat or anywhere else that the softer guys don't want to live. That is where you will find your first opportunity. Waiting for Bristows to let you fly the North Sea for them is a pipe dream. Spend only what you need. Leave the IFR for later, maybe just get a turbine endorsement. Don't spend all your bucks on the JR. Think about where to spend your money. The UK pound buys a lot of Aussie/NZ/SA and canuk dollars and the flying hours are accepted everywhere.
Get off your arse and do a little pushing and a few years of bush and the future will be bright.

Rant over :cool:

Time for my two-pence worth I think!

Before I took up commercial helicopter flying, I was working in IT. I was working contract, perhaps earning £750 / week in the early '80s. I was working about 3 months at a time, then blowing it all on hours building. I got one job working for Thames Tv (sorry about f@@@ing up the royalties payment progam, guys!!) The office I was in was located next to the Thames, and every day I watched those helis flying down the heli-routes into London. My friends who were with me at the time are now earning £1500 / week in IT, and have huge pensions when they retire. I am earning about a third of that, with no pension (oops) but the view from my office window changes every day. I would not change it for the world. The hell with the money. I am doing what I always dreamed of doing, and when I look back on my working life it will be with a smile at what I, a boy from a council estate, has (under?) acheived.

Yes, sometimes when I am in my 5th hour of pleasure flying I get a bit bored. But take a look at the big picture boys and ENJOY it. The alternatives just don't bear thinking about.

And before you ask, it cost me about £45,000. And if I had the choice again tomorrow, I would still do it.

Helicopters - if you have to make no money, what better way??

So, the score so far seems to be ..........
 

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Roundagain
DesertDude
Steve76
Up&Away
Stevie Terrier

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Bert Sousa
Flare Dammit


Perhaps we ought to have Rotorheads' first ever poll?

Guys,

Time for me to weigh in. Flying is the ONLY way to make a living that allows the freedom to make your own judgements, the fun of handling a machine in three dimensions, and the satisfaction of knowing that your fate is literally in your hands.

Those who are bitter about their flying occupation certainly have valid points, but also underscore what my Dad told me - You vote with your feet. They get up each day and do it again, and again and so on. Something must be right with their lives.

As for me, I have flown professionally since I was 18, I am 53 now, and I don't intend to stop. Its a gas, its not usual, and every now and then I see something that a ground pounder can only dream about.

Were I 18, and looking for a job, I'd certainly become a pilot, all over again.

Nick

Is there something in the atmosphere? Someone has a similar thread started over in JetBlast (under: Be Honest).

Keeping score Heliport?

I've done both fixed and rotary and consider myself a helo driver first and foremost. I have had a break from flying, and never missed the plank flying at all. When making the transition from helo to plank, the plank drivers loved to caution the helo guys about how difficult it is with the higher speed etc. Well it is a load of old cobblers, and does not take long to get the hang of climb/straight and level/descent. Do that 6000 times and you have the life of a plank driver. Yawn.

I am convinced that what draws people to fixed wing is the lure of the airlines with the high pay and cushy conditions (i.e. a career choice). I really believe that helicopter pilots fly helicopters for the challenge, the variety and the satisfaction (try rescuing someone in a 747). If they wanted big money, they would have chosen airlines, banking, stockbroking or real estate. If you are smart, you can eke out a good living flying helicopters, and do some of the best flying.

So, I wouldn't have it any other way - and if I want to retire from flying, I'll apply to an airline ;)

What- ho Squiffy! wrote:
"I am convinced that what draws people to fixed wing is the lure of the airlines with the high pay and cushy conditions (i.e. a career choice). I really believe that helicopter pilots fly helicopters for the challenge, the variety and the satisfaction (try rescuing someone in a 747). "


And I'm convinced that most helicopter pilots are neurotic nutjobs.

People are drawn to the airlines by "high pay and cushy conditions"???? Say what? Hey buddy, why not just slap the faces of all fixed-wing pilots! How elitist.

Flying is flying. If you're good, it matters not what type of aircraft you're in. I always preferred flying low and slow and down-in-the-contour-of-the-land of helicopter flying. But I could easily have been just as happy up at FL330 in the pointy end of a 757. Those who call airline flying "boring" or "unchallenging" are just being dumb. It might not be to your taste, but don't demean it. The requirements are just...different.

The original poster, Rob Powell, was trying to contrast the two careers. It's a no-brainer: if there's a choice, GO AIRLINES!

If I had it to do over, would I become a professional helicopter pilot again? Yeah, probably. But hopefully, this time I'd quit before I got trapped. I don't regret becoming a helicopter pilot, but I kick myself for thinking for so long that it was the *only* thing that could make me happy. What a doofus.

FD - I had to smile when you reckoned I am elitist and slapping airline pilots in the face. The last person I accused of having a (relatively) secure, highly paid job that wasn't too taxing, while being served meals and coffee ad nauseum was far from offended. I know a lot of airline pilots, and I attempt to offend them regularly with this method - to no avail.

And, they think I am a little strange for pursuing a career in helo's when I could throw in an application to the airlines. They just can't understand it. It's horses for courses, but the plank flying I have done is not a patch on the helo flying I have done and hope to do.

Feel the fear and do it anyway. If you choose to follow what you love doing, the money will come (or so I keep telling myself).

Where is the encouragement from the guys with the 'dream' jobs - Heliskiing, EMS, Police, SAR, Mediterannean VIP shuttles etc?

I gave up a life of sailing in the Caribbean and Med to do my CPL(H) - Far too much sun, vodka and lose women in sailing you see - it's a nightmare.... :-)

Attacking the airline guys is either jealousy or just misguided. I'm a new CPL(H) with no fixed wing experience but, IMHO, putting a 767 with 300+ souls on board on the deck in crappy viz is every bit as exciting as doing full-down autos, FMC or not.

What-Ho Squify - if money is a big motivator for you (nothing wrong with that sport) may I suggest the most profitable industry sectors.... Narcotics, Investment Banking, I.T., Real Estate, Oil. Several of them go quite nicely with helicopter support! Hell, if you're Australian all you have to do is work in the U.K. for a few years and you go home loaded! :-)

Scores Update .................
 

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Roundagain
DesertDude
Steve76
Up&Away
Stevie Terrier
Nick Lappos
What-ho Squiffy!
buttline

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Bert Sousa
Flare Dammit "I'm convinced that most helicopter pilots are neurotic nutjobs."

Hey Mr Buttline,

If money was my motivator, would I be a helo driver? I think not, and that was the whole point of my post. You must have skim-read it.

And I agree with the other post regarding encouragement from those dream-job dudes. C'mon guys!

Dream Job dudes
 

I must admit that I never expected to be rated with the dream job dudes but as a veteran HEMS driver I can tell you that this job is the best thing you can do and remain legal.

I too had a dalliance with fixed wing flying in the Armed Services and it was good, with lots of demanding flying (mainly IFR) throughout Europe. When I left I made a conscious decision NOT to do Fixed-Wing. After all, its only got money going for it (and lots of it!).

The job I do now is the best. Legalised hooliganism, and I get to save lives occasionally. I work for the best employer I know (me) and I get well paid with a pension to boot.

What could be better than that.

(Mediterranean VIP Shuttle should not be included in the list of dream jobs IMHO!)

Desert Dude,

Whirly-whatever-her-name-is hasn't really got the helicopter flying experience to comment, but since you mentioned my name - well, nearly anyway :D

I guess it just depends what you want out of life. I've done all sorts of different things, and yes, I've been called an under achiever too, just because I never followed a conventional career path or made lots of money. But I did whatever I wanted to do when I wanted to do it, and that kind of freedom is what's important to me. If the rest of the world disapproves, that's their problem not mine.

Five years ago I inherited some money and decided to learn to fly; two years later I discovered helicopters. I keep saying I wish I'd started flying them years ago, but if I had, maybe I'd be as disillusioned as some of you are now. As it is, maybe I can actually get paid to fly them someday, because otherwise I won't be able to afford to. That's about the sum total of my ambitions, flying-wise, right at this moment. If that makes me an under achiever, so be it. It's what I want to do right now. It may not work out, but life is a dangerous and unpredictable business.

When I was considering spending huge amounts of money on a CPL(H), a man in his 70s told me to go for it. "You never regret what you have done, only what you haven't", he told me. I always remember that. I don't intend to end up looking back and saying: "if only..." I'll know at least I tried.

Bert

My roster is 5 on 2 off 5 on 2 off 3 on 2 off 4 on 5 off every 28 days with 4 weeks paid leave and £60,000 PA, I usually have one flight per day and on earlies I am home by by 12:00 hrs I have loss of licence, medical cover and numerious other benifits that I have yet to discover, This my friend is a far far cry from my previous employment and If you think that this is hard work then you have never worked hard in your life.

Regards

:D

As Heliport was good enough to send me an email to join in the conversation, I guess I better.
After reading the adventures of Biggles ( don't laugh ), I decided I had to become a pilot. As a nervous young teenage cadet, I had my first flight in June 1952 in a fairly new Tiger Moth! In 1954 I blew my medical for the Royal Navy when I stupidly admitted getting sea sick! After that I managed to get some private flying while chasing various other career paths but none really satisfied. In 1962, older and wiser I had another RN interview and denied ever getting sea sick! It worked and I have flown helicopters ever since with a 5 year break as an ATC at Sydney airport.
Some jobs were great, some lousy but if I was unhappy, I simply moved on to another company in any part of the world. I confess jobs were easier to come by then, but there is still a huge shortage of experienced pilots now. Giving up flying was easy, I did it many times! Now that I am semi retired, I still find that there are jobs out there for us oldies. At least in Australia they don't stop you flying on reaching 60 as in most countries.
Would I do it again? Absolutely, maybe differently but I would always want to fly. 4 sons and not one of them wants to fly!:(

Sorry Folks, I almost missed being drug or dragged through the dirt. Had the Niece and Nephew down at Disneyland trying to scare hell out of me on the rides.
Just because I stated that "Generally" Helicopter Pilots have a hard go of it, DOES NOT mean I dislike it. I just want to let these bright eyed kids see what life is like for MOST of the folks, before they invest all the profits of a great train robbery into flying for a living......
YES some guys have great jobs with tons of money.....but for sure its not the majority.
I have sampled a bit of most types of work, from Alaska to Africa, in the Caribbean and here in the 48..... Fires to Slingloads, Search/ Rescue, Law Enforcement, Military and Tourists so big you would think a Chinook was needed......All this in 33 years of flying. I/We can go to almost any operator in the U.S. that provides the services I mentioned above, and Im sure you will hear the comments I mentioned, repeated. Most of those folks wont say it, but they HAVE to work as they have nothing at the other end. Its a sad but true story of this industry.
I dont claim to be Gods gift to Aviation, but Ive flown safe over those years and gotten into more than one battle over some jerk who would risk my ass for his wallet.
Max Ng I dont need to send you a resume, Ive had my share of hard work..
Read the book.....

Almost forgot.... I saw this Steve76 Special posted somewhere here.....

"Eg: I was chatting with a lear driver in Windsor the other day. He drives a 10,000,000 aircraft has 3000hrs + 1000hrs on the lear = $35000 Canadian a year.
Most guys I know can easily double that in a summer. Its only taken them 3-5yrs to reach that level"

Hes drive a $10Mil Aircraft..............Duh, which he does not own....
and makes $35k/yr Canadian???..... Excuse me, I believe thats Poverty Level flying.
JUST LIKE HELICOPTERS.
I see adds like "fly in our muti-Million dollar Aircraft". But does it say anything about the $8/hr Pilot.....

Folks ask me about flying, I tell them get a good MBA, work for a company that pays no less than $300K a year and then while you a cruising along to a Grateful Dead Concert, with a Martini (shaken , not stirred) and doin the CEOs Daughter in His Super Puma (sorry Nick......S-76). Ask the Pilot how he likes his job...

Bert. Edited your first line - it was Steve76's post. It picked up my name in the transfer.

Okay, someone asked to hear from some law enforcement types.

Been flying all of my life, flew the fixed wing stuff and was teaching to build up those preciouse hours. But saw the writing on the wall at the time. Never knowing when I would be home and always on call until I made the big leagues. And not having my degree finished kinda threw a wrench in the big leagues at the time. So, I became a law enforcement ground pounder and after working the streets made it to our helicopter division.

Now, tell me that this is not heaven. I have a helicopter assigned to me, in a hangar (no one else uses the hangar), close to home, and a very good observer partner. I go to work, call the brass (home base is 80 miles away) to tell them I am at work, preflight, fly around five hours a day, call the brass and tell them I am going home. I have a blast doing the law enforcement work, and if there is a search for someone missing in the mountains, I get the call. What a blast it is to search for someone, find him/her, and know that you just might have saved their life, or in fact did. I am responsible for 2,000 sq miles and deal with 100+ temps of the high desert, to the 9,000 foot mountains, to the beach. And of course winds usually in the desert of 20-40 kts most of the times.

The flying is challenging as I have to operate my helicopter at the max of its performance, and dealing with the turbulence in the mountains can really get ones heart beating fast.

I plotted my path and made it. Tell me if any fixed wing can do this. And I get paid fairly well. And not shot at too much:eek: . Most of my ex-students and childhood friends that are airline pilots keep trying to ride along with me.

If you love flying, find out all the good and bad of both sides, make your decision and have fun. If you don't like it, get out of it. I watched my dad, a very well respected engineer for a leading aerospace industry company, and could not comprehend the 9-5 at a desk.

Flare damit:

You've got a cheek, taking a pop at helo drivers and then having a go at us for taking a snipe at you (in your latest post).
You've definitely got a large chip on your shoulder without a doubt. Somewhere, somehow perhaps you have been professionally abused :D
I suspect, by the way you respond to individual posts, that you are having difficulty understanding how people tick!
I also observed your predereliction towards remuneration.

Please try to appreciate that one man's meat is another man's poison. (notwithstanding female pilots).

There are innumerable helo outfits leeching off their pilots and providing less than satisfactory working conditions. But I can think of the same number of FW operators doing the same. 4 pilots who work (and worked) with me, are/have been FW. 2 of them are premier division (BA, Virgin,etc) and the remaining 2 lower down the rung (rhymes with Bear 2000 / Thirsk) . BOTH sets of pilots bitch and moan incessantly about their situation, too. It's a mix of pay and conditions.
It's horses for courses - each to their own. Try and accept that there is no perfect solution, too many variables, uncertain outcomes.
The main thing is: do you get out of bed in the morning and look forward to what you are about to do for a living :)

Carpe Diem

I think its like motorcycles and cars. The bike ends up costing more, is seen to be more risky, ocassionally is downright miserable when your wet and cold but man, no car gives you quite the same ride!!

If you disagree, stick to fixed wing. Simple.

In reply to the thread title, Yes, Yes & Yes.

I was lucky enough in 1967 to get into the RN as a helicopter driver, and have had a variety of jobs around the world. Independence, variety, initiative and challenge are all features of our job, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Neither, I suspect, would any of you.:cool:

Youthful foolishness initially led me to the RAF for a career, and I still recall the utter astonishment shown by the selection board when I showed a preference for Helicopters. I swear a Group Captain just about fell off his chair! Needless to say, Dartmouth became more attractive than Cranwell.....

I cannot recall any job I've had as a helicopter pilot that has been poorly paid (although my wife may have other ideas...:rolleyes: ), low on benefits, time off, variety (some offshore runs, but they change over a few months) or interest. The couple of times a year that I run up and down runways in a plank wing reminds me how lucky we are, and helps me value the jobs that we have in helicopters.

For all you guys who get bitchily defensive about how helicopter flying is such a great career...all I've got to say is that you're delusional.

Helicopter flying is a great JOB, but as a *career* it blows. This has ALWAYS been the case. And unless the unions bring about some major changes, it always WILL always be the case.

Look, you like what you like. If you dig helicopter flying, you'll find any way of rationalizing it and claiming you've got a great job. Eh- maybe you do. But as Bert pointed out, the MAJORITY of line pilots do not. They work paycheck-to-paycheck, always hoping that the *NEXT* job will be "the one." And sometimes they go their entire "careers" without finding it. Yes indeedy, there are risks associated with doing this for money! Noboby promised any of us that we'd get rich. But money is beside the point, right? It's all about "job satisfaction."

The difference between us and airline pilots is that *they* have a clearly defined path to better pay/benefits. And yes, whether you admit it or not, at the end of the day it IS about how much money you have to support yourself when you cannot fly anymore. (Oh gee, we're not supposed to think about that, are we?) And in this case, airline pilots beat us hands down.

For someone who's just entering the industry and wants to know which way to go, the airlines are CLEARLY the wiser choice...unless, as I've said, the person has that neurotic need to fly helicopters. Don't tell him/her that one type of flying is *better* than the other. Don't tell him/her that airline flying is "easy" or "unchallenging" or "cushy." As proud as you may be of the demands of our job, that's just silly. On the other hand, don't tell him/her that the road to "success" in helicopters is easy and short and that every working day will be pure heaven on earth (as some of you have indicated). We all know differently, even if we don't want to admit it.

If I have a chip on my shoulder, it's because helicopter pilots have forever been taken advantage of by our employers. But that's only the half of it. They've been able to do that because too many of us have let them. We think that helicopter flying is "better than a 9-to-5 desk job," as if that's the ONLY alternative.

Not long ago I got a call. Friend-of-a-friend kind of thing. This guy was offering me an ENG position in N.Y. as a pilot and perhaps pilot/reporter. First question out of my mouth: How much money are we talking about? He hems and haws and says they *might* be able to go as high as $45k/year. I said that we would START talking at $90k. Taken aback and flustered, he goes, "B-b-but this is NEW YORK CITY!" I said big deal, and that he needed to find some low-time kid with stars in his eyes who would try to live "in NEW YORK CITY!" on that kind of money. And I guess that's what they did. I have not lost one wink of sleep over it, nor is it likely that I will.

$40-45k/year for a 24-7, no-drinking, no days-off ENG job, AND be responsible for scheduling the maintenance and stuff like that, AND live thirty minutes from the bird? Oh yeah! This business still blows. No doubt about it. Why would Rob Powell choose any other??

My career in helicopter flying is one of those things that you would not pay anything for ....but at the same time would not take any amount of money for it. As a career, it has been rewarding but only due to the ability I have had in setting money aside for my retirement and that took some very real sacrifice.

I remember all of the good times, the wonderful friends I have made, the sights I have seen, the events that have filled me with satisfaction, and those that have shown me my mortaility. Through the years I have been fortunate to work in dozens of countries and experienced an education that is only possible by doing that and one that is beyond any university degree possible.

My advice to youngsters....is simple....if you like life at the end of the road....where the pavement ends....then flying helicopters can be a rewarding life's work. If you need the city, routine, and are not happy being on your own, using your wits, and need a worn path to follow...then maybe helicopter aviation isn't for you.

If wealth is measured by the friends you have, then helicopter aviation has made me a millionaire......and I hope I have contributed to their net worth as well.

Another Yes
 

Eight years ago I self-financed myself through flight school. Sold everything I owned to travel to another country and spend all of it, plus a little bit more.

Would I do it again???

Yes, I would.

I enjoyed spending the money and now I'm enjoying earning it. Regardless if it's enough for you it's enough for me.

I do pity those that haven't found what I have from this career. But just like many things, if you don't find what you are looking for, move on.

I've heard many talk about switching to fixed wing and joined in the conversations but I have never been slightly tempted.

So how much does it cost and how is the pay
 

I've just subscribed to pprune, on a recommendation from a friend. I had my first lesson on Saturday ........

Your friend was right, and I'm sorry to delete your first post, but please check the title of threads before you post.
PPLs are always welcome on Rotorheads, but this is clearly a discussion between professionals about a specific topic.
If you try the 'search' function, you'll find numerous threads where professionals give advice about becoming a helicopter pilot, job prospects etc.

Update
 

Again? Heck I'm just trying for the first time! :D

I've never figured I would make a lot $$$ flying helicopters.

It's not the $$$ that draws me in the first place.

I want to fly helis. Period.

To me, the most important thing is to do what you want with your life. Not how much you make, retire, etc. (sure it's important, and I have other things going on woirk wise to address that)

My point is that if you are not happy doing what you are doing, stop doing it, don't settle for less.

I've had co-workers who ask me why I still slog, sloooowly gaining hours.

I ask them "What cjob would you love to do, if you could pick anything?" They tell me, and I ask them "What are you doing TODAY to move towards that job?" :D

I may make it, I may not, but it's the road traveled to me that is important.

I hope that fit in somewhat to the topic ...

Yes I would definately do it again, but I wouldn't do it if I didn't have money coming from other source than flying.

Flying has definately given me great experiences and has given me a steady flow of satisfaction, but I really don't see it as the way I will be making a living forever.

There are a few, cool, good paying, stable, jobs, these are VERY rare, also most of the time these jobs are Corporate Related, and trust me, if you are going to fly helicopters for VIP's you WILL get bored, and you are much better off flying Corporate Planes. At least instead of going from the company helipad, to the ranch, the airport, the other facililty, the country club, waiting endlessly asleep in the helicopter, you will at least go all over the world, know places, stay at neat places.

Also I would not live as a helicopter pilot in certain countries where they have the perception that line helicopter pilots are just uneducated numbers, and make you feel unappreciated.

I see so bright and early that Flaredamit and I are at the Alamo and the guns are blazing. I also look at the list of those who think this career is so wundaful and find a few flaws.
I also did the military thing and those folks should be eliminated from this as they also make a good living with benefits and retirement.......
Nick, is doing a technical job and is also making great money....
Law enforcement for the most part pays way above the average Helo Pilot, at least here in the states. Mainly due to Law Enforcement first, Pilot second. Few are Civilian Pilots( non-sworn)
Some others have said they are also compfortable.
My comments should be considered by all those folks I fly with as line pilots for companies doing work in the field as in fire fighting, Government contracts, oil rigs, tours and ems, seismic, logging etc. and yes CFIs
Again, without beating a dead horse, many are making good bucks as corporate, manufacturer pilot etc. The rest are struggling....
Believe me folks, Im not unhappy about helicopters and I have a guaranteed income fly or not. For me its not a big deal. MANY Pilots cant speak out due to fear of losing their jobs.
Shall we make this a Union issue??
Flare, Toss me some C rats and ammo, look like a long firefight........

Gentlemen

Allow me to present perhaps a slightly different slant on this thread. I am early/mid thirties, have been a professional helicopter pilot for 12 years, and love it. I earn £48000 per year, which is enough for me look after the family rather well, own a lovely house, and drive 2 cars, one of which is a porsche 964 convertible. My helicopter is less than 1 year old, costs 29 000 000 (that's 29 million) per copy, and comes with all the bells and whistles that you have ever heard of, and a whole bunch that you haven't. I have a guaranteed job until I'm 55 - I only lose it if I decide to leave. It's no big secret how I did this - I'm in the RAF. I am still (and will hopefully remain!) a junior officer, but am a senior pilot. I fly 300 'ish hrs per year, more than 200 of that is below 100 ft, and that includes the night flying (on NVG using FLIR backup). The flying that I have done is unbelievable by the standards of any civvies I have talked to, but standard by military terms. Hovering with blades 5 ft from a cliff, at 3500 ft, IMC, in snow, at night? Yep, easy peasy compared to operating in the Falklands.

Would I do it again? What do you think. Plank drivers - good lads, but Sooooo boring.

Bert,

To prove your point...ask any long serving Gulf of Mexico offshore pilot about how lucrative the pay has been. Get them to tell you the story of going ten years without a cost of living raise....or the Britiish pilots.....the bullcook who made my bed on the offshore rig I lived on made exactly one Pound Sterling a month less than I did.....look at some of the adverts for pilots even now....less than 4000 US per month for a 212/412 Flight Instructor and Maintenance test pilot in Saudi. Companies that offer a 6/6 schedule but want to cut your pay if you take that offer versus an 8/4 rotation. How about that wonderful Saudi gig on the Kawasaki's....barely 4000 US and a whopping 41 days leave.....or some of the grand EMS jobs flying Jetrangers at night over hostile terrain......for less than 4000 US per month.

Go fly the corporate turbo props and jets....at least you get to live in a Motel 8 with cable TV and meals provided.....even at the shoddy outfits. Aviation is not an easy life....nor will it change as long as people will do it for the sheer enjoyment it gives instead of being completely mercenary about it.

There are excellent jobs out there.....have had some....almost had others....but I have also had some real winners....each of us has to decide what it is in life we want....and then go get it. I wanted to travel and see the world....and that I have done. Now, all I want to do....is throw out the anchor....make a decent living, fly safe machines, and have some time off to enjoy my leisure actiivities.

What a lot of negative comments from people! I've been flying helicopters for 37 years now and every day when I get up I think what a great time I've had and am still having. It's not a job, it's fun. I went the military route which was great for teaching self-reliance and variety. I also worked in the North Sea and was fortunate that my employer had overseas contracts so I could try other countries and types of flying. The money has never been great, but it's always been enough and I've always paid into a personal pension which hopefully will support my retirement. If I've become bored or disillusioned with what I'm doing for more than a month or two (hey, no job's utterly perfect!), then I've looked around for something else and usually taken a pay cut to go and try it. Where I'm now working it's with a great bunch of guys, with a lot of Ozzies and Kiwis who have a very positive approach to what they're doing and like it a great deal. I still love flying helicopters and hope to go on doing so professionally until well into my 60's. Every day I wake up, am grateful for all the fun and travel I've had from my job and hope I'll continue to do so until the day I'm forced to retire