S/N 6 ????????
 

Thanks for the replies guys. One question for Darren999:

You reminded me of a question I had about N555EN (47D1 s/n6). How is it that this ship shows up on the FAA registry as s/n 6, when the first Bell 47D1 produced was s/n 145? The FAA shows the mfr. as Bell, and the helicopter is in the normal category, but if there was never a s/n 6, how did this happen?

Ah, 47's. Gotta love 'em! I'm sure everybody would like to claim the "earliest" 47. And maybe some people do have some early examples. But they're authentic in the same way George Washington's "original" axe used to chop down that famous cherry tree is: the handle has been replaced four times and the blade has been replaced twice.

Av8rbpm asks:The serial numbers are all over the place, and a "D-1" may have started it's life as something else. MSN 6 is listed as a 1947 47D-1, so it was probably a 47B when it came off the assembly line and modified to D-1 status some time thereafter. See, the 47D-1 didn't gain Type Certificate approval until March of 1949. Oddly, MSN 16 is also listed as a D-1, yet it is supposedly a 1946 airframe, a year earlier than MSN 6. Go figure.

It gets more interesting. Curiouser and curiouser, you might say.

There is listed a "straight" Bell 47 (no suffix), MSN 11, which is listed as built in 1947. And there is also a 1947 47B MSN 11, N9241Z on the U.S. registry. Coincidentally, there is also a 1947 47D-1, N157B which is listed as...(drum roll)...MSN 11! Separate aircraft? How many serial number 11's did Bell build in 1947?

Did Bell run all of the early 47 serial numbers for the different models consecutively? Or did they start over a "1" for each new model? The latter is doubtful, since the only differences between a B, a B-3 and a D were cosmetic or operational (spray set up, for instance).

There is a 1947 47D, MSN 5, N147B. And there is also a 1947 47D, MSN 60, N140B. Complicating matters is a 1947 47B, MSN 58, N138B.

Bell must have really been cranking those 47's off the assembly line(s) in 1946 and 47. What with the military orders and all these civilian ships, they must have been running three shifts!

By the way, the MSN 1 47G was, apparently, built in 1959. But there is also a 47D-1, MSN "001" listed as being built in 1961. (Other people besides Bell have built "47's" and this may be the case with MSN 001. Sometimes they show up as "Bell-Shelby" or something like that in the databases, sometimes not.)

Obviously there's been a lot of N-number and serial number switching going on in the 47 world. This is analogous to the classic car market, I suppose, in which cars are purported to be something special (a rare racing Ferrari, say) but are found to be not exactly that when the various serial numbers are matched up.

I personally know of a "47D-1" with a funky but not personalized registration number (not one of the consecutive N-numbers that Bell usually used). There's an "extra" data plate that says that it was modified to D-1 status in 1962. The regular "Bell" data plate says the ship is a D-1, but there is no entry in the "Date Of Manufacture" column, and the whole thing looks hand-stamped. Friends who know about these things are pretty sure it was not a D-1 at birth. The logbooks only go back to a complete rebuild in the 1970's, so God only knows what happened to the ship prior to that. (Maybe it was built up from parts?)

With 47's, authenticity must be very hard to prove. Owners of those early ships must not want to talk about it too much.

So where is it Gymble??
 

Don't keep us in suspense Gymble, where is the real 47D (not D1) s/n 1?

Gymble... At least that was funny !!!!

Bell 47 running costs
 

Hi all

I am seeking the current running costs for a bell 47 turbo and non turbo

Just DOC's not insurance etc

Thanks in advance

Rotor1

Not quite on topic, but I just did my first solo today on a B47 - G-BAXS at Fairoaks, and from what limited amount I know, they are an outstanding machine and a huge pleasure to fly. :ok:

Bell 47 Conversion
 

Looking to do a Bell 47 conversion.

Anybody know who is operating them Midlands - Northern england area or further a field if no one local

Thanks

Cyclic

I think Kuki Helicopters at Gamston/Retford may have one.

If thats close enough.

Minty

There's a B47 in the TAMS hanger at Sheffield (used to be parked next to me in the hanger at Gamston).

Aero Maintenance at walton Wood look after some (they would know about trainers I guess??)

I think Mike Green from Sandtoft does B47 training (think / uncertain)

Hields Aviation at Sherburn certainly do and have a B47G3B1

bell47
 

Enjoy your time in the 47. I little higher workload if you have not spent much time in a 300 or a 22 with the gov switched off. The trick is to listen to the engine. Have fun. :ok:

Anyone know of any B47 tailboom strikes ?
 

To all you seasoned gents out there - do you recall in your experience ever having or knowing of a tailboom strike in a B47 ? If yes, what stage of flying did it happen and what was the damage ?

Are you referring to the tailboom being struck by the main rotor, or the tailboom striking the ground?

apologies - main rotor really, but grateful for any info.:)

Boom strike
 

I have only heard of boom strikes once the aircarft has touched the ground after and autorotation following an engine failure. People usually hit the ground hard which then inturn causes the blade to felex down then hits the tail boom. The blades do sail quite a bit on a 47, so just something to be aware of. It doesn't seem a common occurance.

Darren

I've seen the result of a heavy auto, the blade just nicked the TR drive shaft. Shaft had to be U/S'd but the blade was OK. Another time a mate walked away from a KH4 while it was running down (rabbit ears still down) in a strong wind and watched the blade sail down and cut the tail off.

Tail damage
 

I was once visiting a training school in Tehran back in the 70's and watched one of the solo students wack his G2 into the ground after some erratic hovering - when he returned and we inspected the aircraft we found one leg of the yolk casting that holds the tail-tube at the end of the boom was cracked right through!!

G

:{

Ive known of 3-4 occurences. All as detailed above.

Heavy landings by students, during engine off landing training (of course, one could argue the instructors intervention was too late but thats a small glasshouse to throw stones in!!).

Only once did the blades actually sever the tailboom itself. On all other occasions the blades flexed enough to strike the aft short shaft of the tail rotor drive. As the aircraft were already on the ground there was no loss of directional control.

At a training school in the 80's, one B47 G2 cut the T/R drive shaft with the blades due to a heavy EOL. The instructor thought they had got away with it and was winding up the rotors again when he had an R/T call from a colleague to say "The T/R's not going round - is this normal??"

On another occasion, late intervention by the instructor during an EOL and the T/R struck the ground during the flare. T/R and its gearbox separated from the tailboom. The skids were still a metre or two off the ground at this stage and the five or so "landings" were quite interesting. A/C written off but instructor and student unharmed.

This was a Soloy 47 with a heavy pilot and heavy passenger. The forward CG and downwind landing didn't work well together.

MIA99LA133On April 19, 1999, about 0730 central daylight time, a Bell 47-G3B, N32PH, registered to Provine Helicopter Service, Inc., operating as a 14 CFR Part 137 aerial application flight, crashed while attempting a liftoff from a truck mounted platform near Thomastown, Mississippi. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan was filed. The helicopter sustained substantial damage and the commercially-rated pilot and a passenger reported no injuries. The flight originated about 30 minutes before the accident.

The pilot stated he departed with the land owner for an orientation flight over the tract to be sprayed. Upon completion of the orientation flight, he returned to the "nurse truck" and made an approach to deplane the land owner. He was not content with his landing skid placement on the platform and pulled up for a second approach, when the helicopter started an uncommanded yaw, followed by an uncontrolled rotation. He stated he thought the passenger had stepped on the right anti-torque pedal. He maneuvered the helicopter away from the truck, but the main rotor blades collided with a small tree, the right landing skid hit the terrain hard enough to collapse, and the aircraft came to rest on its right side.

According to the two-man ground crew, as the helicopter was lifting off the platform for better positioning on the platform, they heard a "loud bang similar to a shotgun blast". They saw a piece of the aircraft fly away and the tail rotor stopped turning. The helicopter performed multiple rotations, tilted toward its right side, and impacted a stand of small trees with its main rotor blades. The helicopter came to rest on its right side within the trees.

Subsequent examination of the accident site and interview of the pilot, ground crew, and land owner by Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspectors, revealed that the pilot was making a downwind approach to the platform in order to position the passenger near the ladder to expedite his exit off the platform. The wreckage revealed the throttle was fully open and the right anti-torque pedal was full forward. A 16-inch section of tail rotor drive shaft located in the plane of the main rotor tips was missing and the tail boom truss had sustained a main rotor blade strike. One of the main rotor blade tips (outer 4-6 inches) had witness marks that would be consistent with striking the tail rotor shaft. Except for the aforementioned, the inspectors could find no mechanical malfunctions of the pilot's flight or engine controls, the engine or its components, or the transmission or drive train to the main or tail rotor systems. The FAA operations inspector stated, "It appears that the pilot through cyclic and collective control input caused the rotor blades to make contact with the tailboom and tailrotor drive shaft".

A pretty large percentage of 47's I've seen that were used for ag work had tailboom strikes at some point - the usual story was an autorotation to a soft field with some groundspeed & the pilot using a bunch of aft cyclic after touchdown. 99% of the time the maintenance logs would never show any trace of the incident or repairs though...

would there not have been a feeling of imbalance felt in the airframe and pedals if the t/r wasn't spooling up with the m/r?? :confused:

I'm sure that all sorts of hints were there to tell him that there was a problem. Maybe he was just checking to see if anybody else had noticed!! ;)

bell 47 part required
 

Does anyone no where i can get a break away coupleing for a 47 fitted with the large 48 gall crashproof tanks.
kind regards bull****proof

Try Scott's Helicopters in Minnesota, USA:
Scott's Helicopters Website

To B47 operators out there
 

Is it normal to have cracks in the paint on the underside of B47 metal blades? The cracks I saw were in direction from leading edge to trailing edge and evenly spaced say quarter of an inch apart and repeated from root to approx 1/3 or 1/2 span. I've been assured its just the paint!
Just wondering if all blades go like this or whether its a sign of too many 'to the ground autos' with its extreme coning. ie a training machine. The blades are half life. Can I expect the blades to go to full life without blade retirement/death???

Do most or all blades get to full life?

Outofwhack- With the metals blades there should be no reason they should not go to time life, 5000hrs I beleive, However, you may want to look round for another set soon if you intend to keep the machine, they are pretty scarce to come by. The cracks you mention,once you have them check are usually OK from leading edge to trailing edge. The ones you don't want run along the blade. You sometimes find the cracks around the root end near the metal brace, close to the grip. Normally the paint on the surface cracks, that's my expirence with woodn blades too, as you say probably due to coing, not all down to Auto's either. I know a couple of places that may help you. Rotorcraft Blades in Texas, and East Coast Helicopters in PA.
All the best
Darren

Mixture control
 

Can anyone tell me why most, if not all, the Bell 47 in Australia have their mixture control lever sawn off in the cockpit.

ie. so that you cannot adjust mixture

Surely a Lyc435 tuned at sea-level is going to splutter quite a bit trying to operate out of a strip at 5000'. Leaning a bit would surely help regain the lost performance wouldnt it? So why are they disabled?

Because they have an altitude compensating carb - all the 47's I flew did anyways.

the mixture control in a 47 is only an idle cut off and only works when the throttle is fully shut.

there is an automatic mixture control, (amc), inside the carburettor that does it all for you. it is an aneroid that changes the jet setting as you climb.

please do not lean out any helicopter. you might get a big fright.

Thanks guys, I knew there was an answer.

So they are not really that useful !
They cant save fuel!

I will also assume that they're cut off to remove all chances of confusing it with carby-heat lever as they are rather close arent they!

OOW

That's correct!
Do never lean!
I was flown with my B47G3B1 from 1'400ft up to 15'700ft to the Montblanc without any problems.
All temperatures in green arc ... and NO lean
http://www.adpro-ltd.ch/bilder/20060316megeve/index.htm

bet you didn't shut it down:bored:

If you want to see spluttering around a '47, then the best thing to do is stick around when the engineer has fitted a replacement amc, that was sent AOG (ah yes, remember that old term of long gone respect), but the gadget was dispatched in a non pressurized cargo hold. heh hehe:{

I believe there was a fatal accident in the UK with an inflight tailboom strike.
It was a long time ago and would require a search in the AAIB reports to come up with the details.

Why not a parachute?
 

Wow, those photos nearly give me a nose bleed.

I took some skydivers up to 5000' a few weeks back in a 47 and the feeling of loneliness and being too high after they had bailed out was quite unexpected.

Given the risks of parachutes around I wore a safety chute myself - felt good when the ground was so far away.

Being a newbie - dare I ask the question why helicopter pilots dont have parachutes. The old reason of not being high enough to use them does not apply anymore. Base jumpers prove that.

You'd think that Robbie flyers would buy em!

B47 engine management
 

Another thing dawned on me while flying around, wondering whats about to go wrong [like a good pilot should?] with my 'new to me' Bell47.

The [sea-level] school I started my initial training with never really mentioned much about the manifold pressure limits as placarded except to say climb with 25inches and cruise with 22/23 inches. I dare say the second school I continued at may have assumed my knowledge of MP limits was complete. Well I am still learning for sure - hence this question....

Is the Bell 47 with Lyc435 (unboosted) bulletproof in this regard or very sensitive to MP abuse?

How would I know if these limits havent been observed in the past?
What does abuse of the figures cause?
OOW

Fairly simple answer, not much.
The same engine in other F/W installs runs continuously at around 275 hp.

Your MP limitation applies to the max continuous power ( from memory 220 hp???) that you are allowed to put through the xmon. Therefore the engine cooling system is designed to keep the engine cool at that power rating. - continuously-

Make sure that someone hasn't put a bigger engine cooling fan on it, I.E. from a turbocharged model. we often did in the hot climes to keep them cooler.

One tip is that the main power jet cranks open at about 22.5". keep it a shade under that and you'll cruise at 3 to 4 litres per hour less and only 1 or 2 knots slower.

Another tip, if you have a wet sump engine always keep an eye on the magneto idler gear shaft where it bolts into the accessory housing. if there is one drop of oil seeping from it, do not fly - it will fail inside the next 25 hours.

apart from that they are bulletproof, and magic to oprerate.

Thanks for the tips TopEndTorque,

It is absolute magic and I am totally happy with my recent purcase. Its funny how so many people assume I bought a Robinson. I have 1 hour in a Robbo and its not increasing. I just love the 47 always have! I love the noise too but I must admit to having heard nearly enough on day 7 at Oshkosh with two 47s flying overhead dawn to dusk doing joyflights.

Can Robbie owners claim similar enjoyment with a R22/44? I suppose they take a lot less greasing but I dont think they have the timeless looks of a classic like the 47 or 206.


Now to find the magneto idle gear shaft.

I will look for a drip of oil there when I find it - but how clean can one of these engines be anyway?

It does have a wet sump but there always seems to be some oil sprayed around near the dipstick and around the intake manifold. It could be just drops from the bottle when filling. Wish it had the seperate sump! But cleaning does make me inspect quite well.

Next question ... how to polish the bubble and keep it clean?

get the right one
 

I have a 47g4a with the 540 16 gph 90kns vne no problem ! cruze 80kns 21ins lots of power not to be mixed up with a g3 (no chance of vne small chance of a 60knt cruze) slow at the side of a 44 and not has cheap to keep in avgas as a 300 but a very safe and well loved helicopter .But you need to want a 47 and not becouse you think it would be cheap flyin.

I get 75 knots in my G5A some have said because it is quite light at 804kg and thats why it is so fast.

My engineer recommends, for best efficiency, fly high enough to the point where the throttle is wide open. Max throttle height?????

I think the argument is that "that is where the engine is developing its full rated power" and this is supposed to translate to best efficiency. I dont quite understand the logic though.....

.... if you put your foot to the floor on a car you will go fast but I am sure its miles per gallon goes down.

Can anyone explain?
OOW

I suspect that this has been asked before! I've always found 210 to be the best cleaner for perspex: always wash dust and dirt off first with plenty of water and a quality cleaner, and dry with a good, clean chamois. Apply 210 with a soft, clean rag in straight, sweeping lines. Never := clean in a circular motion, nor rub hard in one spot to remove a mark: you'll leave a scar in the perspex if you do. Straight lines will give the least chance of sunlight reflecting on the minute score marks that sometimes get left: if the score marks are circular, there will always be a relection ;) Buff the screen with another clean, soft cloth after you've cleaned with 210. Don't forget to clean inside the screen, too: it's remarkable how dirty it can get.

Also, wash with clean water and a clean cloth/chamois after each flight, it's easier to get the bugs off when they're new and soft! It's worked for me for many a year now :ok: