I'll be happy just to get work!

:p

on a similar thread, what are instructors getting elsewhere?

i know most are paid per hour flown but how does it vary?

i know we are looked down on by a lot (especially when we are in the R22) but we are pros to!

My experience is as follows:

At the bottom end of the market (e.g. JetRanger), operators either seem to pay by the flying hour or day rate. Generally, for most charter day rate pays better for the pilots since you can easily spend the whole day and fly only 2 hours (hurry up and wait syndrome).

Hourly rates vary but I have heard of £50-70 per hr around here (with a minimum of 1 hour - presumably to pay for car expenses to get to the helicport!!)

Day rates for SE seem to be around £200-250 usually.

VFR ME (e.g. AS355) seems to start at £250 although there are certain cheapskate outfits that try te get people to charge around £200. If you are talking IR, the rate seems to go up to £300-350 some times.

All the comments about new starts undercutting are quite correct - I understand why they do it - it is just an extension of them paying out £30K + to get the basic qualifications & experience to start.

Many operators do not seem to be interested in "quality" - they simply go for the cheapest.

Like EESDL, I have also noticed that some operators ignore the minimum required experience required by CAA & JAR-OPS when it suits them - presumably the CAA FOI never check?

For the 10 years or so that I did instruction, it was almsot always paid on the flying hour - the freelancer carries most of the risk which suits the flying school of course.

SE piston was paid at £40 (£35 for AFI restricted)
I always tried to get some more for turbine, multi and advanced but foten did not succeed. I once got tricked into doing ME IR training for £150 per day by one nameless outfit but I did not go back.

I doubt that rates have changed much - inflation does not seem to affect the freelance helicopter industry

Freelance instruction and pay
 

I have searched the database but can't find a result.

Can anyone tell me the going rate for helicopter instruction and or charter for a freelance pilot in the UK?

instructor £35 ph FI (R) and £40 FI
Commercial £150 a day

been like that for ages, what does anyone else get?

The instructor rates look about right - perhaps more for advanced instruction (twins, IFR etc).

I think that the commercial rates vary quite a bit. Some oufits still try to pay only by flying time - all day away with 1.5 hours FT for less than £100! In the main day rates seem to be paid (or possibly half day for short jobs). I have not heard of a day rate less than £150; it can go up to £350 for Twin/IR expensive machines.

Helicopter pay aligned with airlines
 

I recall some time ago that pilots working for a UK operator gained substantial salary increases by aligning themselves with airline pilots. Does anyone remember who this was and any other details.
Thanks.

Hi Wallaby

Two companies in the UK did this. CHC-Scotia rapidly followed by Bristow. I don't have the details though, other than I think they came to a 3-year deal with the managements of each to get them in to line with operators such as easyJet and Britannia.

I know there was a lot of talk about strike action to get the deal but I don't recall that actually happening.

JKnife.

Bristows and CHC are the only people who have had a major pay hike, I believe (in the UK).
They got their act together and did the business, it seems. I don't know of anyone else with the same "cohesiveness" to be able to succeed with this continuing problem.
It would be a dream come true if the helo industry (UK) could unite in this dept.
Perhaps then they would be in a better position to drag themselves out of their 'gutteral' image...

Or, perhaps it's just too difficult.

TC,

I don't disagree with your aspirations but I think that CHC and Bristows pilots have two things going for them that most heli pilots don't:

They are a largish group that can act as one body and have an immediate impact on their employers' bottom line;

Their skills are rapidly and readily transferable to the airline world, so their argument for comparability is valid and readily provable - the offshore operators did lose a lot of pilots to the airlines.


Of course, those of us with suitable qualifications could always seek comparability with offshore heli drivers...............

I agree partially with helinut. That pay deal had mainly to do with the united front pilots presented at that particular time.

Regarding the 'easy jump' to fixed wing, it was an argument, but only to some extent. This pay deal was agreed in November 2001, and fixed wing operators had already made dramatic changes in their recruitment policies after 9/11. Fixed wing operators were neither an option for pilots, nor a threat for operators. However pilots kept their position, and achieved the salary scale you can see below.

At the end of the day, the result of any pay deal will depend on the power the workforce has to twist employer's arm. It has nothing to do with being fair or unfair. Look at the best-paid pilots in the airlines. They always look forward to the next pay round, because they know that they will get something thanks to their unity, despite the fact that there is nobody better paid than them.

Big workforce= big power (if they're united)
Small workforce = reduced power?
1-pilot operation = depending on the value that the individual represents to the company, and how persuasive he/she is.




Bristow Helicopters and CHC Scotia pay scales for captains

Currency: GBP (£)

-----Scotia------Bristow---Scotia------Bristow
-----2003-------2003------2004-------2004

Year
25 -------------77,270
24 -------------76,534
23 -------------75,797
22 -------------75,061
21 --77,270 ----74,325 ----79,202 ----79,207
20 --76,393 ----73,588 ----78,303 ----78,301
19 --75,509 ----72,852 ----77,397 ----77,395
18 --74,625 ----72,115 ----76,491 ----76,489
17 --73,741 ----71,379 ----75,585 ----75,583
16 --72,857 ----70,643 ----74,678 ----74,677
15 --71,973 ----69,906 ----73,772 ----73,771
14 --71,089 ----69,170 ----72,866 ----72,865
13 --70,205 ----68,434 ----71,960 ----71,959
12 --69,321 ----67,697 ----71,054 ----71,053
11 --68,437 ----66,961 ----70,148 ----70,147
10 --67,553 ----66,224 ----69,242 ----69,241
9 ---66,669 ----65,488 ----68,336 ----68,335
8 ---65,785 ----64,752 ----67,430 ----67,429
7 ---64,901 ----64,015 ----66,524 ----66,523
6 ---64,017 ----63,279 ----65,617 ----65,617
5 ---63,133 ----62,543 ----64,711 ----64,711
4 ---62,249 ----61,806 ----63,805 ----63,805
3 ---61,365 ----61,070 ----62,899 ----62,899
2 ---60,481 ----60,333 ----61,993 ----61,993
1 ---59,597 ----59,597 ----61,087 ----61,087


Pension: money purchase scheme (for newcomers)
Company contributions:

Bristow: 5% --------- CHC Scotia: 7%

Airlines used during the benchmarking exercise: Air 2000, Britannia short haul, bmi short haul, JMC, Monarch and EasyJet.

Working for nothing!
 

The idea of working for nothing, no pay just to build hours. I mentioned this to my instructor who said, "I would be viewed as scum", or words to that affect.

Is this just bitter and twisted people who would like to be in this position or is there a deeper reason?

Don't know about other countries but in Oz at least, any employer who takes on a pilot on this basis is leaving themselves 'wide open' to a claim for the owed, correct wages at some point in the future. Sure you think you're worth nothing now, but by the time you've got a couple of hundred hours up your opinion will change especially if you have some gripe with your employer. Its hard to get a start. You have to make some reason for an employer to hire you. If 'work for free' is the only one you can think of you possibly lack imagination.:suspect:

Working for nothing?
 

It's a 'catch 22' situation, you don't have hours so you do what you can to get hours... that may mean that you work for a package that is below the 'Award' or, the package that is offered to you is (in your opinion) satisfactory, for you. I call it a "package" because it may not just be about 'the money' it could mean; endorsments, ratings, additional training etc. At the end of the day you do what you need to do to get the hours. Don't forget, the industry knows the industry!

:ok:

People working for free, or almost, is the reason that, 35 years after I first got my PPL, shrimp boat captains laugh at me when the find out how little money I make. The same will happen to you. Nobody works on a shrimp boat for free just to build hours.

I am not condoning 'working for nothing', you must question the operators who offer and pay, below award wages and conditions? Until people work together rather than as individuals then operators will continue to offer minimum wages etc....

GLSNightPilot - I bet you still took the job knowing you had one of the lowest payed positions on the boat?

:confused:

No, there ain't enough money in the Northern Hemisphere to get me on a shrimp boat. I fly over them, see them bobbing around in high seas, & I'm really, really glad to be up in the air, not down in the water. :( :sad: :yuk:

There are people who not only fly for free, they pay to do it. People pay a couple of hundred dollars an hour here to fly traffic flights, just to build time. :ouch:

Are the pilots who work for free for unscrupulous employers the same pilots who under record flying hours in the maintenance release, is there any link here?? I suspect if you succumb to flying for free you are not doing anyone favours including yourself. If you under record flying time to keep in favour with the employer then you must ask yourself this, did the pilots before you do the same thing as well? Maybe that ship you're flying has a few (many) hundred hours on it more than the certified life and maybe it's not such a good idea to be flying it for free. Let's stand together and break the cycle, get paid what you deserve, and as a minimum get paid the Award!

I imagine the main reason people would have a problem with you working for free is that you screw the pot for the people who can't afford to work for free.

If I were an operator, why would I pay someone a decent wage to fly when I have 10 guys who are willing to work for peanuts?

In the end, it just makes it harder for everyone to get started, unless you have the luxury of a second income.

Well, I'll probably get flamed, but...

EITHER...we have a union, which would be a nice idea, but isn't likely to happen....

OR...if you want to undercut the next person, including working for free, good luck to you. That's the way the world works. Why should helicopter flying be any different?