When pension is taken into account a little bit more than I was getting in "Green" (including top rate). It's not all about money. Quality of life or lack of it is what made me decide not to apply to stay when my shelf life arrived. Having the ability to book concert tickets for a date next year etc because I know exactly what I will be doing shift wise and wether I need to apply for holidays to acommodate. (That is what they call them in the civilian world and they are a right, not a priviledge!!)

FFTOW
Had you better not change your Username now?
Hope all is well on the other side, sounds like it.
You miss being messed about really, now that you are a 'Civvy', go on, admit it:-)

Green Bottle
What are they going to do about your name....chuck you out?

FFTOW,
you'd better change it to "very Short FFTOW". Have to agree with your comments Re: Quality of life though. How did you enjoy your first run of shifts in the dark?

------------------
Whilst all reasonable care has been taken, this product may contain traces of nuts.......

FFTOW,

My memories of life in a baggy green skin are exactly the opposite: at least I knew my leave dates, and could plan for next year!

Civvie life is the one where I can't plan ahead, my family is quite used to last minute changes due to work requirements. Fires, emergency relief work, charters, all tend to come when I had hoped to get a weekend off !!

P.Pilot: speak for yourself!!!!
FFOW: concur.

I loved my time in the mil, nothing bad to say about it at all. However, there comes a time when one must/should join the real world...before it's too late....
The water is fine...c'mon in.

Earpiece: recent evidence suggests that there may be the beginnings of a shortage of mil pilots in the helo world, perhaps.

The net is closing :)




------------------
Thermal runaway.

Thanks PP. I forgot I had used that e-mail address. I've changed it now.

EESDL, you have me at a disadvantage, do I know you? You certainly seem to know me. Please feel free to mail me and reveal all (ooh err!!).
Fortyodd - Scary!!! No NVG!!!! I didn't realise that it got as dark as that though, whenever I needed reassurance there was always a nice policeman or two on hand to help.

John Eacott - what line of work have you gotten into? North sea, corporate?

T.C had a lot of ups and downs whilst in green. Got totally disillusioned and pissed off many times but that was easily outweighed by the opportunity for the type of flying and work colleagues that a lot of people will never experience. The time came giving me the opportunity to go so I took that deep breath and went. Had a very happy landing.

On the subject of names I'm considering changing it to "finals" or "short finals". Though those that know me would probably suggest that I go along with "Short!"

Any suggestions?

Regards

FFTOW

FFTOW et al,
I'm hitting the road soon after 20+ in mil RW and FW, and would be interested to hear about how things went for you guys who have already done so - little surprises that maybe you hadn't envisaged, or just impressions of how it was when you departed.
I'll keep flying, but am also gearing up to have other 'strings to my bow' - good idea, I'm thinking.
Cheers

FFTOW and others,

I'm in much the same boat as Arm - leaving on PVR after 27 years - and would very much appreciate hearing any words to the wise you may feel inclined to offer.

Oh, and in answer to the original question - (I'm RAF on Loan Service at the moment) - I received just over 4,000 pounds after deductions last month. And no, I have absolutely no stupid ideas about ever earning (legitimately) that kind of pay out in the real world. But then, the pay's not the reason I've chosen to leave after all this time.

Thud_and_Blunder without taking it out on you.

Why do you think you are worth less as a civilian pilot than you are as a military one??

This is ultimately the reason for low wages.

You will still have to work.. so why should it be for less???

And please don't tell me it's because of the pension you will be receiving to top up the pot.

Rotorbike,
Forgive me for jumping in here seeing as you originally asked T&B the question.
However, a quick comment:
Reading some of the threads here at PPrune and discussing life in general with some GA and airline mates leads me to think that to make equivalent money in 'the outside world', you either have to go airlines, or head off to somewhere where the living conditions warrant extra money for being there.
If, like me, you have made the lifestyle decision to live in a certain area, you've got to work with the jobs that you find within reasonable distance of where you live.
(This is probably a non-issue when you're starting out and willing to go anywhere to get work, but I've had it with being posted at random in the military and intend to live where I and my family want to, now!)
Given that, I'm sure the range of jobs in the local area will be such that I'll be making less than I am now.
Everyone's situation is different, true, but here's one instance where I'm going to have to take a financial hit for other good reasons.

Don't know about the UK, but in Australia you will definitely earn less as a civilian pilot than you did as a military one. It's not just a question of being prepared to move wherever the more highly paid jobs are, the simple fact is I don't think there are ANY helicopter jobs in the country that pay as well as the military does.

I'd say there are plenty of heli drivers jobs in Oz that pay better than the military. $100k, or close to, is expected for SAR specialists, and a few offshore drivers. Although the south pacific peso is plummeting daily, the cost of living is such that you can live extremely well on that, thank you.

Me, I operate 2 twins, 2 206's and 5 f/w, in Melbourne, Sydney & Brisbane. Filming, photography, traffic reports, fire fighting, snow ops during winter (40 landings/day at 6000 ft in a 117), sling loads, VIP and general charter. Keeps us busy!

My earlier message was more of a thought provoking moment than a civilian V military pilot confrontation.

I understand how after spending X amount of years getting sent around the world without notice how this would provoke you to drastic measures, especially when you now have a family. Amazing what baggage you pick up along the way!! I'm just asking, now you have all this experience why you feel you are worth less.

From the other side of the coin a civilian pilot works his way up and that low paid job you are considering is going to be his top.

Doesn't seem altogether fair.

[This message has been edited by Rotorbike (edited 17 March 2001).]

Rotorbike,
Yes mate,
I know where you're coming from.
Speaking for myself, I certainly don't think I'm worth any less than someone of similar experience etc.
It's just simple supply and demand - I'm sure that if I was prepared to go hunting it, I could make good $$'s, but you have to be in the right place. Having fixed my location, I'll work within its limits.

As for any civil v military slanging, I don't buy into it. My hat's off to anyone who has shelled out to get their qualifications, although on the same token I know I've worked hard to get mine too.
There are people in both areas who get worked up about rash generalisations, but I prefer to judge people by their own actions.

Looking forward to seeing how the 'other half' lives soon, anyway!

To John Eacott-you are no doubt more in touch with the salaries than I am. I've been out of the country for a couple of years. Before leaving Aust I was one of those SAR specialists you mentioned: multi-engine, single pilot IFR, but not earning anywhere near 100k, and I don't think any of the other EMS/rescue pilots were either. The military pilots were earning in the low 70's at that time but I believe they've had some big pay increases to take them up to around 100k. Any military, EMS/rescue, offshore pilots care to comment? I'm genuinely interested and sincerely hope the pay situation has improved since I left. If it hasn't all us Aussies in Macau and Hong Kong will never come home, especially the way the Aussie dollar is going.

Mark Six,

Going by your where you work, you at one stage probably enjoyed the wonderful lifestyle on Hamilton Island. (Some truth in that, it wasn't all tongue in cheek.) If you were still there doing IFR Marine pilot transfers you would be earning around AUD$65,000. It is still the award so there is nothing special about it. How does that compare to what you were getting over here in the early days? (if my assumption was correct).

Cheers

Rotorque, actually I enjoyed the wonderful lfestyle of Lismore flying the Westpac rescue helicopter (Dauphin). A great job but undervalued considering the qualifications required and the type of work. I think the other EMS drivers (at least in that part of the world) would agree. The pay was close to the figure you mentioned, but may have changed since then.

Rotorbike,

Absolutely no offence taken - I understand your point entirely. If I were to cherry-pick some highly desirable job yearned after by a young up-and-comer and win it because I was prepared to take a lower salary, I would deserve the misanthropy that came my way. Notwithstanding the paramount need to look after my family properly, I think I have enough fellow feeling for brother (and sister..) heli aviators to make sure I don't widdle on anyone's chips.

My comments were in part aimed at informing the other UK military aviators who read this thread that it is possible to be quite well off and still work for Betty. Bear in mind I'm being paid (I don't say earning...) double what the originator is currently getting. They might also like to bear in mind that for the period of time spent on Loan Service they are unlikely to be hoofed around anywhere near as badly as they are back on the Mudbank. I've only had 2 days away from home on duty in the past 2.5 years, for example - even the SARboys do more than that, for Pete's sake... Oh, and my post's up for grabs in September - read those SRO notices fellas.

Now, as one of the replies stated earlier, I'm looking at finding work in a part of the world of MY, not the RAF's, choosing. Don't know precisely where yet - off on a couple of job-hunting trips over the next few months. Inhabitants of the Brisbane/Melbourne area can expect the odd enquiry while we're there in May...

<asks innocently> Isn't Melbourne where John Eacott now lives ?

[This message has been edited by The Nr Fairy (edited 18 March 2001).]