"Average" hours
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"Average" hours
Hi all,
Just wondering if you guys would give me an idea of your flight hours to complete your PPL - (FAA or JAA.)
Just so I can plan my finances with a bit more realistic flight time requirements than all the quoted averages from the flight schools
Remember - its a marathon not a sprint!!!!
Cheers all,
Bones
Just wondering if you guys would give me an idea of your flight hours to complete your PPL - (FAA or JAA.)
Just so I can plan my finances with a bit more realistic flight time requirements than all the quoted averages from the flight schools
Remember - its a marathon not a sprint!!!!
Cheers all,
Bones
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Well, I have an FAA fixed-wing license, and am about to take the checkride for my helicopter add-on. I have 40 helicopter hours, and you strictly need 30 for the add-on.
The main reason for going over was not planning time very efficiently, but I wasn't too pushed about getting it right at 30 anyway - hours are hours, and I love to fly.
Generally speaking, I think people tend to complete the rating (either initial or add-on) with about 10 hours over what's required. Some take less, some more.
Are you planning on taking an intensive course, or the old 'once or twice a week' approach?
Peter
The main reason for going over was not planning time very efficiently, but I wasn't too pushed about getting it right at 30 anyway - hours are hours, and I love to fly.
Generally speaking, I think people tend to complete the rating (either initial or add-on) with about 10 hours over what's required. Some take less, some more.
Are you planning on taking an intensive course, or the old 'once or twice a week' approach?
Peter
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I completed my PPL(H) this April at around 70hrs. During my training I did quite a few cross-country trips to different places around the UK. This added quite a few additional hours that were not really needed but I love flying and wanted to get some experience of flying cross-country.
My instructor told me I was ready for the flight test in December 2002 but due to bad weather and the one of the airfields on the cross-country route is only open Friday/Sat/Sun I had to wait until April to do my cross country solo. I burnt up quite a few hours waiting for the solo cross-country.
One of the guy's who was training at the same school passed his flight test on 45hrs... He had to do a few hours on the morning of the test as he was short on hours. (He had some previous experience in micro lights)
If you have the time to fly a couple of times each week and the weather is on your side. (Helps in the UK) You can do it in 45hrs no problem....
My instructor told me I was ready for the flight test in December 2002 but due to bad weather and the one of the airfields on the cross-country route is only open Friday/Sat/Sun I had to wait until April to do my cross country solo. I burnt up quite a few hours waiting for the solo cross-country.
One of the guy's who was training at the same school passed his flight test on 45hrs... He had to do a few hours on the morning of the test as he was short on hours. (He had some previous experience in micro lights)
If you have the time to fly a couple of times each week and the weather is on your side. (Helps in the UK) You can do it in 45hrs no problem....
The Original Whirly
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I'm not quite sure about this, but I'm getting the impression that it depends to some extent on both the instructor and the school, as well as all the above. Now, whether this means that schools or instructors whose students on average take longer are more thorough, or just don't teach as well and want extra money...bit of a minefield there, and I really don't know.
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Just checked my log book and it took me 60hrs including the qxc and gft from never having flown before.
I started in November and passed in May and had a lesson a day booked, lost about 70% of these due the weather, I reckon if you learn in the summer or a better climate, you will learn faster.
Some guy's though, are only booking a lesson a week and it seems to take them ages to learn, I suspect a lot give up on the way if they don't see any progress, I found the more you do it, the easier it gets and then one day, without you realising, you can fly it, well sort of!
My only tip would be to make sure you can afford to do it in as short a space of time as possible.
I started in November and passed in May and had a lesson a day booked, lost about 70% of these due the weather, I reckon if you learn in the summer or a better climate, you will learn faster.
Some guy's though, are only booking a lesson a week and it seems to take them ages to learn, I suspect a lot give up on the way if they don't see any progress, I found the more you do it, the easier it gets and then one day, without you realising, you can fly it, well sort of!
My only tip would be to make sure you can afford to do it in as short a space of time as possible.
Bear in mind that the minimum hours were set to cater for the Genius ace from space who was born to fly, and who does a lesson or two every day. He/she is at the absolute top end of the bell curve of populations. 98% of the world's people reside below this person.
Therefore, do not plan on getting through on the minima. An average person will take the averge time, 10 or 15 hours more than the genius. I flew with a retired airine pilot, 20,000 hrs+, who owned his own H500 and had 700 hours on a private licence. He was UNABLE to meet commercial standards and gave up.
Another student pilot was a successful lawyer (and therefore perhaps not too stupid) and he took 70 hours to go solo.
So, don't blame the schools for having bad instructors or for being greedy, just because you aren't in the top 2% of the world and passed your test in the minimum hours. They will put you up for a test WHEN YOU ARE READY FOR IT. Any Chief Flying Instructor who does less is not performing his duties correctly.
Therefore, do not plan on getting through on the minima. An average person will take the averge time, 10 or 15 hours more than the genius. I flew with a retired airine pilot, 20,000 hrs+, who owned his own H500 and had 700 hours on a private licence. He was UNABLE to meet commercial standards and gave up.
Another student pilot was a successful lawyer (and therefore perhaps not too stupid) and he took 70 hours to go solo.
So, don't blame the schools for having bad instructors or for being greedy, just because you aren't in the top 2% of the world and passed your test in the minimum hours. They will put you up for a test WHEN YOU ARE READY FOR IT. Any Chief Flying Instructor who does less is not performing his duties correctly.
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You can ask for others experience but there are so many variables that make a difference:
The training schedule
Significant breaks takes a lot of extra flight time to review and revise exercises
The latent skill levels of the student
The degree of application of the student
The skill, experience and application of the instructor
The relationship between the instructor and student
The school arrangements
The weather
The training schedule
Significant breaks takes a lot of extra flight time to review and revise exercises
The latent skill levels of the student
The degree of application of the student
The skill, experience and application of the instructor
The relationship between the instructor and student
The school arrangements
The weather
The Original Whirly
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All of the above is of course absolutely true. But I know of one school where pretty well all students take at least 60 hours, usually more (sometimes a lot more), and another where a high proportion get through in the minimum hours. I'm in no way saying the second school is better; in fact, I know someone who did a PPL(H) there, after flying f/w for years, who reckons they rush students and cut corners. But is the first one better, or just slower? And is the second better, or do they leave things out. Or is neither of the above true? Or is it impossible to know?
Sorry to complicate the issue so much.
Sorry to complicate the issue so much.
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Thanks for the info.
I am hoping to go over the big pond for a full-time PPL this winter time - obviously Florida , Long Beach or California will be a bit warmer than our dismal effort.
Seems then that if I have "average" ability and get my head down and put lots of hard work in - with all things been equal I might just get the license in Minumums + 10 ish hours.
Interesting to see the difference between full-time and part-time students, this sort of confirms what flight schools have been saying to me.
But I have this nagging doubt about flight schools that use their own Examiner - surely the temptation will be for these to fail a student in the hope of getting extra hours off the student? Or is this a cynical attitude that should be discounted?
One of the schools I'm interested in (Mazzei) has a "guarenteed" PPL in 40 hrs. Now to me (the uneducated) this seems too good to be true, and in my experience that's usually exactly what they turn out to be - not true.
Love to get some feed back off those that have done the intensive flight school route and judge their hours compared to the part-timers. Keep 'em coming....
Cheers,
Bones
P.S. Whirlybird - any chance you could name the schools you mentioned - PM if possible, and I promise not to gossip!
I am hoping to go over the big pond for a full-time PPL this winter time - obviously Florida , Long Beach or California will be a bit warmer than our dismal effort.
Seems then that if I have "average" ability and get my head down and put lots of hard work in - with all things been equal I might just get the license in Minumums + 10 ish hours.
Interesting to see the difference between full-time and part-time students, this sort of confirms what flight schools have been saying to me.
But I have this nagging doubt about flight schools that use their own Examiner - surely the temptation will be for these to fail a student in the hope of getting extra hours off the student? Or is this a cynical attitude that should be discounted?
One of the schools I'm interested in (Mazzei) has a "guarenteed" PPL in 40 hrs. Now to me (the uneducated) this seems too good to be true, and in my experience that's usually exactly what they turn out to be - not true.
Love to get some feed back off those that have done the intensive flight school route and judge their hours compared to the part-timers. Keep 'em coming....
Cheers,
Bones
P.S. Whirlybird - any chance you could name the schools you mentioned - PM if possible, and I promise not to gossip!
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I finished my Pvt. at 80hrs, but I was also going to school full time at that time. How often you can fly and devote to studying really effects what you end up finishing in. I was flying once every other week for a long time, and in early stages of training, that meant that i was relearning most of the same stuff lesson to lesson. The average for the school that I am at is probably about 60hrs.
bones :
Have you worked out the cost of turning the FAA licence into a JAR one on your return ? If not, it may make sense to do the JAA one in the US, which would restrict your choice of schools to one or two.
Have you worked out the cost of turning the FAA licence into a JAR one on your return ? If not, it may make sense to do the JAA one in the US, which would restrict your choice of schools to one or two.
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I did it in about 60 hours, doing a block of two weeks, flying everyday, two weeks off and then finishing at the end of another 2 week block. I was later told that I was taken for a bit of a ride on hours - too many cross countries. But I didnt really mind that - nice to have a bit more experience under the belt.
Learnt in Feb and March in Blackpool. Alot to be said for learning to fly in winter in this country - prepares you for real life. Nice to learn to fly in hot sunshine and blue skies, but it makes the first time you are presented with a Metar that reads 6000 BKN012 a little uncomfortable.
Also wherever you go, if you dont like your instructor, tell the boss and get another one. Alot depends on the relationship between you and your tutor.
Learnt in Feb and March in Blackpool. Alot to be said for learning to fly in winter in this country - prepares you for real life. Nice to learn to fly in hot sunshine and blue skies, but it makes the first time you are presented with a Metar that reads 6000 BKN012 a little uncomfortable.
Also wherever you go, if you dont like your instructor, tell the boss and get another one. Alot depends on the relationship between you and your tutor.
Hi Bones,
Your doubts about the integrity of a school that has its own testing officer are true to some extent, but in the opposite direction.
If they have their own testing officer, they can push a no-talent student out the door in the minimum hours, even if he/she is not up to the standard required. (They wouldn't give that person a job, though....... )This improves their statistics, and people might go there because they feel they will pass on the minimas and it will save them money.
But only some schools do this. Go visit them, talk to them. And don't go to a school just because they are the cheapest. In many cases, WYPFIWYG*.
*What you pay for is what you get.
Your doubts about the integrity of a school that has its own testing officer are true to some extent, but in the opposite direction.
If they have their own testing officer, they can push a no-talent student out the door in the minimum hours, even if he/she is not up to the standard required. (They wouldn't give that person a job, though....... )This improves their statistics, and people might go there because they feel they will pass on the minimas and it will save them money.
But only some schools do this. Go visit them, talk to them. And don't go to a school just because they are the cheapest. In many cases, WYPFIWYG*.
*What you pay for is what you get.
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I got my PPL(H) in just short of 69 hours.
By all accounts, it seems that frequency of lessons is a large factor in how long you take. I tried to go for two a week. Annoyingly (and probably bad planning?), I was ready for the qualifying cross country stuff in December/January (2001/2) and the weather conspired against me... it wasn't until mid-February 02 hat I managed to do it!
I think a f/w licence (or other) might help in some cases, as you don't have to learn too much in the way of airmanship - r/t, rules of the air, etc. Whereas I'm sure some of my time in the air was concentrating on such things. That said, I was in a conversation with my instructor last year, and he had a student with PPL(A) that really struggled to grasp a lot of the different helicoptery things - hovering and PFL I think was specifically mentioned
By all accounts, it seems that frequency of lessons is a large factor in how long you take. I tried to go for two a week. Annoyingly (and probably bad planning?), I was ready for the qualifying cross country stuff in December/January (2001/2) and the weather conspired against me... it wasn't until mid-February 02 hat I managed to do it!
I think a f/w licence (or other) might help in some cases, as you don't have to learn too much in the way of airmanship - r/t, rules of the air, etc. Whereas I'm sure some of my time in the air was concentrating on such things. That said, I was in a conversation with my instructor last year, and he had a student with PPL(A) that really struggled to grasp a lot of the different helicoptery things - hovering and PFL I think was specifically mentioned
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From my own experience the only way to learn to fly is to have an intensive course. Far cheaper in the long run. (And when you are flying a couple of hours everyday, you don't have time to forget things!)
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mazzei's guarantee
Just a quick note re mazzeis 40hr guaranteed course - the guarantee is not that you will pass on 40 hrs but that you pays your money and then get as many hours as you need to reach the standard. The only catch is that you have to start paying for your housing if you go overtime.
When I went to mazzei's I opted for that course but was talked out of it by the schools owner as he obviously thought I looked like a bit of a liability.
That said I ended up passing on 37 ish hours so it all worked out ok.
Cheers
When I went to mazzei's I opted for that course but was talked out of it by the schools owner as he obviously thought I looked like a bit of a liability.
That said I ended up passing on 37 ish hours so it all worked out ok.
Cheers
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Whirlycopter - Thanks for putting me straight on the Mazzei guarantee - that makes far more sense now I've re-read it, cheers. Hopefully you'll get some spare time to answer that interogation I've PM you - I'll owe you a beer.
60 hrs in four weeks in sunny Blackpool? Now that really does sound "intensive". No spare time time for kiss me quick hats, soggy chips, Russ Abbott...........
Seems the chooses are full time or long time.
Cheers all for your responses,
Bones
60 hrs in four weeks in sunny Blackpool? Now that really does sound "intensive". No spare time time for kiss me quick hats, soggy chips, Russ Abbott...........
Seems the chooses are full time or long time.
Cheers all for your responses,
Bones
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I agree with Ascend Charlie, the minimum 45 hours is unrealistic for the normal joe bloggs that walks in of the street.
If you break down the 45 hours,
10 hour solo,
5 hours instrument training
Leaving 30 hours dual training
Which doesn`t leave much to learn the basics, navigation etc etc
Obviously everyone is different but i think 60 - 70 hours is more realistic.
If you break down the 45 hours,
10 hour solo,
5 hours instrument training
Leaving 30 hours dual training
Which doesn`t leave much to learn the basics, navigation etc etc
Obviously everyone is different but i think 60 - 70 hours is more realistic.
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In my experience taking frequent lessons really helps. Once a week is minimum, twice a week is better, more is even better (if you can afford it).
I did fixed wing first. It helps with airmanship and getting used to how things look from the air, what a shallow and steep should look like approach look like, basic eye-hand coordination, etc. With the f/w experinence I found it not being that hard to get the heli add-on in the minimum time required.
solo-airplane: around 15 hours, PPL(A) around 65 hours, CPL(A)+IR another 50 to 60 hours, solo heli a bit over 10 hours, CPL(H) a bit over 40 hours. (all Dutch licenses)
Also, make sure you get a good instructor. If the two of you don't get on, try someone else.
I did fixed wing first. It helps with airmanship and getting used to how things look from the air, what a shallow and steep should look like approach look like, basic eye-hand coordination, etc. With the f/w experinence I found it not being that hard to get the heli add-on in the minimum time required.
solo-airplane: around 15 hours, PPL(A) around 65 hours, CPL(A)+IR another 50 to 60 hours, solo heli a bit over 10 hours, CPL(H) a bit over 40 hours. (all Dutch licenses)
Also, make sure you get a good instructor. If the two of you don't get on, try someone else.