air trafic controllers
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Escrick York england
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air trafic controllers
just to warm things up
air trafic controllers
i know they have a hard job and most of them are excellent but there are a few of them that suck.
2 weeks ago i was passing by east mids zone going underneath their 1500 stub on the derby side i called them to tell them where i was and the usual height ,track callsign ect [as you do ] when i got the answer i did not want your life story , the next day i got a phone call from a caa examiner friend of mine saying he had heard the message to me from atc i asked him if i had said my radio wrong and he confirmed i was correct
the next week i went same track again and said i was a heli passing through[ no details given] he said he wanted all my details cant win can you next time i wont even speak to them.
passing under the stub of a approach in uncontrolled airspace does not require you to talk to atc but to all of the airliners that have tcas when approaching all they see is your transponder i would think that it would be good airmanship to report your position as they cant see your height what would you do in future
messages in a bottle please
air trafic controllers
i know they have a hard job and most of them are excellent but there are a few of them that suck.
2 weeks ago i was passing by east mids zone going underneath their 1500 stub on the derby side i called them to tell them where i was and the usual height ,track callsign ect [as you do ] when i got the answer i did not want your life story , the next day i got a phone call from a caa examiner friend of mine saying he had heard the message to me from atc i asked him if i had said my radio wrong and he confirmed i was correct
the next week i went same track again and said i was a heli passing through[ no details given] he said he wanted all my details cant win can you next time i wont even speak to them.
passing under the stub of a approach in uncontrolled airspace does not require you to talk to atc but to all of the airliners that have tcas when approaching all they see is your transponder i would think that it would be good airmanship to report your position as they cant see your height what would you do in future
messages in a bottle please
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Northern England
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"They sound a little like the ladies at Leeds, who always seem to be missing a hormone or three!"
How kind you are... others have been less so about the friendly and impeccable controllers at Leeds.
How kind you are... others have been less so about the friendly and impeccable controllers at Leeds.
OOOOOOH! Sensitivity training required here.....shame on you making sexist comments like that.....bad enough you mention personal medical issues in public that are offensive to the female population but gee....gosh.....describing the various conduct they might demonstrate in the privacy of their own homes, telephone booths, or carparks, like that....shame...shame I say. How politically incorrect...better watch out....gonna be some Thought Police knocking on yer door some night....and you will find yourself in some gulag somewhere reading Danielle Steele novels for years.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Leeds, Yorkshire, UK
Age: 65
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I agree with MD 600 Driver...
ATC is there to assist not to hinder and they should be consistent and helpful...
I had an incident with Liverpool not long out of PPL training... I was flying from North Wales and called up for FIS and to be on frequency with someone. The foreign sounding controller at Liverpool said what are you calling us for - you are outside the zone... and your track will stay outside!!! I said I wanted FIS anyway... the pedantic git then wanted me to repeat exactly every word back and I mean exactly! I missed out the VFR bit on my reply probably because its so obvious and because R22s always fly VFR and it was the brightest sunny blue sky day you could get but he insisted I repeat back what he had said... I didn't even realise at the time what I had missed and, slightly flustered, had to get him to repeat the entire message.... this all made the conversation pointless...
Then as I tracked the coast line, he called me to warn me of another R22 approaching 12 o'clock 3 miles and at that exact instant as his radio button was released, the other R22 passed me by, at the same height, within 200 or 300 feet!!
I believed he did nothing for the safety of my flight and for the record I called him to leave his frequency and told him he had been the most unhelpful ATC I had ever spoken to...
Incidentally, based in Leeds and often speaking to Leeds ATC, I find them most helpful, friendly and have no complaints at all... I find them very helicopter aware and they seem to realise that short radio comms are best for busy heli pilots....
I also find the military controllers like Waddington excellent...
I know MDs reaction well and often wonder myself if its worth calling ATC if you don't have to....
ATC is there to assist not to hinder and they should be consistent and helpful...
I had an incident with Liverpool not long out of PPL training... I was flying from North Wales and called up for FIS and to be on frequency with someone. The foreign sounding controller at Liverpool said what are you calling us for - you are outside the zone... and your track will stay outside!!! I said I wanted FIS anyway... the pedantic git then wanted me to repeat exactly every word back and I mean exactly! I missed out the VFR bit on my reply probably because its so obvious and because R22s always fly VFR and it was the brightest sunny blue sky day you could get but he insisted I repeat back what he had said... I didn't even realise at the time what I had missed and, slightly flustered, had to get him to repeat the entire message.... this all made the conversation pointless...
Then as I tracked the coast line, he called me to warn me of another R22 approaching 12 o'clock 3 miles and at that exact instant as his radio button was released, the other R22 passed me by, at the same height, within 200 or 300 feet!!
I believed he did nothing for the safety of my flight and for the record I called him to leave his frequency and told him he had been the most unhelpful ATC I had ever spoken to...
Incidentally, based in Leeds and often speaking to Leeds ATC, I find them most helpful, friendly and have no complaints at all... I find them very helicopter aware and they seem to realise that short radio comms are best for busy heli pilots....
I also find the military controllers like Waddington excellent...
I know MDs reaction well and often wonder myself if its worth calling ATC if you don't have to....
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hay River, NT Canada
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MD
Sounds similar to this side of the pond. Lots of ATC are professional and heli-aware, some are stupid, pedantic gits who seem to take personal umbrage at our every word. Enjoy the good ones, encourage their professional behaviour. Don't let the others get under your skin. Their lives may (or may not...) be miserable, but you're the one who gets to fly!
Cheers,
Sounds similar to this side of the pond. Lots of ATC are professional and heli-aware, some are stupid, pedantic gits who seem to take personal umbrage at our every word. Enjoy the good ones, encourage their professional behaviour. Don't let the others get under your skin. Their lives may (or may not...) be miserable, but you're the one who gets to fly!
Cheers,
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: ISZ - not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
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Rotor nut
On a FIS, identified or not, the controller is not responsible for passing you any traffic information at all, separation remains your responsibility. If the controller has the available capacity, they may pass you traffic information, but it may be passed late, and there is no guarantee that it will be either complete or correct.
"I believed he did nothing for the safety of my flight"
Had you suffered loss of power, electrical circuitry, communications etc, then rest assured, the waters would have parted and that controller would have done everything in his power to assist you. Next time he may choose not to offer you any service at all, after all, services outside CAS are the bottom of his priority, and he is well within his rights to tell you to look for a service elsewhere.
If you do want a proper service, then a RIS is usually the best you can hope for, but if the controllers workload goes up too much, you will be among the first to have your service downgraded or terminated.
On a FIS, identified or not, the controller is not responsible for passing you any traffic information at all, separation remains your responsibility. If the controller has the available capacity, they may pass you traffic information, but it may be passed late, and there is no guarantee that it will be either complete or correct.
"I believed he did nothing for the safety of my flight"
Had you suffered loss of power, electrical circuitry, communications etc, then rest assured, the waters would have parted and that controller would have done everything in his power to assist you. Next time he may choose not to offer you any service at all, after all, services outside CAS are the bottom of his priority, and he is well within his rights to tell you to look for a service elsewhere.
If you do want a proper service, then a RIS is usually the best you can hope for, but if the controllers workload goes up too much, you will be among the first to have your service downgraded or terminated.
HeliFirst
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lincoln & Norwich
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Cambridge IS ATC and ARE helpful
Duxford is NOT ATC but thinks he's Gods gift to....no one!
REAL air trafficers will help
(no matter what the provocation)..true pro's
Duxford is NOT ATC but thinks he's Gods gift to....no one!
REAL air trafficers will help
(no matter what the provocation)..true pro's
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
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Be nice...
... to ATC - they'd rather be flying - like you ..... and they are generally so patient with the halfwits one hears on the radio .... (except the small controllers with 'big man' syndrome but that's rare).
Is it just me, or are there other pilots out there that have never had a problem with ATC - Well, not one that wasn't caused by me in the first place ! I admit I usually fly around Aberdeen where the controllers know us very well and are always helpful, but I do fly around the rest of the country occasionally and I've always found them genuinely pleasant and courteous to deal with.
Oh well, maybe it is just me !
Oh well, maybe it is just me !
