Miami Dade AW139 lands gear-up
Joined: Oct 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,371
Likes: 926
From: Den Haag
So, I guess they inhibit the L/G warning during winching and then don't have a post-winching or pre-landing checklist! I believe there is also a CAS message that the system is inhibited....
On many types, that would have resulted in a lot of crushes antennas etc
On many types, that would have resulted in a lot of crushes antennas etc
Last edited by 212man; 13th May 2026 at 10:51.
Joined: Oct 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,371
Likes: 926
From: Den Haag
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
Joined: Oct 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,371
Likes: 926
From: Den Haag
Originally Posted by [email protected]
We used to put the gear down when winching to stop the other low height alerts.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 429
Likes: 38
From: England
One of the reasons Bristow winch gear down all started with the 139 when CHC took the CG contract in 2008. With the then 139, the aural alerts when coming into the hover with gear up for winching, were an annoyance and detracted from safety. Lowering the gear stopped this. Although with the advent of phase 6/7, these annoyance warning could be hushed but the precedent had been set and some people were not flexible enough to change.
That carried over to the new contract in 2015 operated once again by Bristow, with the intro of the 139 into Lydd and St. Athan.
It's not required to do it now as the warnings can be managed depending on your flight regime but try changing something in a big company!
What Bristow did on the 139 carried to the 189.
That carried over to the new contract in 2015 operated once again by Bristow, with the intro of the 139 into Lydd and St. Athan.
It's not required to do it now as the warnings can be managed depending on your flight regime but try changing something in a big company!
What Bristow did on the 139 carried to the 189.
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,184
Likes: 541
From: Lost again...
I may be missing something and in no way mean to criticise crews doing a real time real life job...
Why would you not just drop the gear when winching anyway?
The performance penalty at hoisting speeds must be negligible at best, and the benefits of being able to just "lob it on" if you have to are considerable.
Does gear deployment compromise float deployment on the 139?
To me any system that allows you to inhibit gear warnings is facilitating a potential gear up landing
OH
Why would you not just drop the gear when winching anyway?
The performance penalty at hoisting speeds must be negligible at best, and the benefits of being able to just "lob it on" if you have to are considerable.
Does gear deployment compromise float deployment on the 139?
To me any system that allows you to inhibit gear warnings is facilitating a potential gear up landing
OH
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 319
Likes: 56
From: On land
Does gear deployment compromise float deployment on the 139?
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 134
Likes: 38
From: Australia
I can see how this could easily happen on over water ops.
My company ops require gear up so every approach over water you get a gear warning at 150ft.
I have hardwired myself to acknowledge every time aloud for rear crew to hear and state overwater. It’s annoying when you are expecting it and resetting CAS warning is quicker but this is exactly why I do it.
Very easy mistake for the crew, sounds like short leg multiple evacs, brain is considering a lot and every approach over water numbs you to a critical audio caution.
Captain isn’t going to live this one down any time soon
My company ops require gear up so every approach over water you get a gear warning at 150ft.
I have hardwired myself to acknowledge every time aloud for rear crew to hear and state overwater. It’s annoying when you are expecting it and resetting CAS warning is quicker but this is exactly why I do it.
Very easy mistake for the crew, sounds like short leg multiple evacs, brain is considering a lot and every approach over water numbs you to a critical audio caution.
Captain isn’t going to live this one down any time soon
Fleet Manager
Joined: Aug 2006
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 7,081
Likes: 2,938
From: Ontario, Canada
I have hardwired myself to acknowledge every time aloud for rear crew to hear and state overwater
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 114
Likes: 7
From: UK
AW139 is certified for ditching with floats deployed. Gear up is the normal ditching configuration because:
• Gear down increases the chance of a dynamic rollover if you ditch in water.
• Gear up + floats gives a more stable, level attitude on the water.
• Gear down increases the chance of a dynamic rollover if you ditch in water.
• Gear up + floats gives a more stable, level attitude on the water.
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 412
Likes: 41
From: South West
Was it a crew who got used to habitually cancelling the gear warning when approaching a manual hover with the gear up? I think the gear warning in the AW139 is designed to remain supressed if the auto hover mode is used because the designers expected that was how everyone would do hoisting.
However #ome crews flew hoisting manually and so had to constantly acknowledged the gear alert. They got used to cancelling the alert every time they came to a hover. I wonder if these guys had just finished a hoisting period where they had been spamming the audio alerts acknowledge for the last 2 hours
This exact issue took out a Spanish AW139 crew in 2010.
AW139 accident
However #ome crews flew hoisting manually and so had to constantly acknowledged the gear alert. They got used to cancelling the alert every time they came to a hover. I wonder if these guys had just finished a hoisting period where they had been spamming the audio alerts acknowledge for the last 2 hours
This exact issue took out a Spanish AW139 crew in 2010.
AW139 accident
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2002
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 3,378
Likes: 316
From: near an aeroplane
That is an interesting HF case actually. What is the normal way that this is supposed to work? What is the system (the warning) designed to warn against? We all know the answer to that second question, but it helps to set it out in detail. Once crews have to work around built-in safeguards or warnings, something has gone wrong in the design.
Joined: Sep 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 2,371
Likes: 877
From: Canada
Not the first time….very early 76 daze many years ago 2 Training Capts had a similar event in Australia. Disabled the gear warning while practicing something…then wandered back to the airport, shot an approach to land. Can’t recall if they touched down or just broke some antennas.
Heard of it nearly happening many years later . Saved by the PNF memory “Finals Check” : “ Brake, Gear, Radar, Floats, Deck ID”
Heard of it nearly happening many years later . Saved by the PNF memory “Finals Check” : “ Brake, Gear, Radar, Floats, Deck ID”
