One on One with David Smith from Robinson
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 81
Likes: 3
From: Middle England
Have you seen the price tags on their helicopters? That alone should keep their instructors out of their cars. No need to shove a poker up the ass of even lower time instructors/tour pilots just trying to meet ridiculous insurance requirements.
Times change yes, and Robinson just hasn't been the same since Frank died.
Times change yes, and Robinson just hasn't been the same since Frank died.
Sadly, everything costs rather more than it used to.
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 888
Likes: 65
From: California
Comparing 2020 rates and 2025 rates is nonsensical; apparently that guy never heard of inflation. For a *real* comparison, the Bell 505 course I did a few months ago was $17.5k! Of course that's for a much more expensive helicopter and included 3 hours of flight time plus a bit of time in a fancy sim, but it was really only a 2-day course plus a flight or two on each of the next few days, and did not include a factory tour since it wasn't at the factory (dedicated training facility).
$1800 is dirt cheap for a helicopter course. If you're a helicopter owner or even renter, you can obviously afford that cost (it's the equivalent of renting a R44 for 3 hours). If you're a professional helicopter pilot, your employer would pay the cost.
$1800 is dirt cheap for a helicopter course. If you're a helicopter owner or even renter, you can obviously afford that cost (it's the equivalent of renting a R44 for 3 hours). If you're a professional helicopter pilot, your employer would pay the cost.
I was a renter for 16.5 years and $1800 was about have my yearly rental budget. Maybe you're rich enough that $1800 means nothing, but a lot of us Robby drivers aren't.
,...and I seriously doubt any pilot pays $17k out of pocket for that Bell school. Its an apples to oranges comparison to a course that was designed for pilots at the "burger flipper wages" end of the industry.
Plus, when the course is an insurance requirement just to get that burger flipper wage job, the employer is definitely not paying for it. You're as out of touch as the new guy who now runs Robinson.
Joined: Jun 2016
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,318
Likes: 386
From: Brantisvogan
The R22 course is listed as $1133.
If your budget is $1800 a year, in modern money, in these parts, thats about 4 or 5 hours of rental in a R44, and that isn't enough for currency and proficiency. Costs have more than doubled in 10 years. Probably safe to say that you wouldn't be the target market and it doesn't reflect any Robbie drivers I know. Helicopter flying is not value for money, and if you can't afford the hours or training it is probably better to consider fixed wing instead.
As a percentage of total spend to obtain a license, $1200-$1800 is barely scratching the surface.
Last edited by Bell_ringer; 2nd December 2025 at 04:13.
Joined: Dec 2023
Posts: 55
Likes: 97
From: Torrance, CA
Going from $500 in 2005 to $750 in 2020 (15 years) is inflation. Going from $750 in 2020 to $1,500 in 2022 (2 years) is corporate greed,...not to mention another $300 in just another 3 years!
I was a renter for 16.5 years and $1800 was about have my yearly rental budget. Maybe you're rich enough that $1800 means nothing, but a lot of us Robby drivers aren't.
,...and I seriously doubt any pilot pays $17k out of pocket for that Bell school. Its an apples to oranges comparison to a course that was designed for pilots at the "burger flipper wages" end of the industry.
Plus, when the course is an insurance requirement just to get that burger flipper wage job, the employer is definitely not paying for it. You're as out of touch as the new guy who now runs Robinson.
I was a renter for 16.5 years and $1800 was about have my yearly rental budget. Maybe you're rich enough that $1800 means nothing, but a lot of us Robby drivers aren't.
,...and I seriously doubt any pilot pays $17k out of pocket for that Bell school. Its an apples to oranges comparison to a course that was designed for pilots at the "burger flipper wages" end of the industry.
Plus, when the course is an insurance requirement just to get that burger flipper wage job, the employer is definitely not paying for it. You're as out of touch as the new guy who now runs Robinson.
For what it is worth, I am the one you can thank for holding R22 spare part prices flat for almost my entire time at the company. I also made sure that when we doubled the life of the R66 parts last year we passed most of the financial benefit to the customer even though some of the new revisions cost more to make.
We have tried to be sensitive to the running costs of our aircraft which is the dominant driver of affordability. If biannual (or every 5 years!) training cost is dominating your flight expenses, you are not flying enough.
PS: take a look at our new R66 Transition course that directly compares to the $17k 505 course… we offer more flight time, more ground school and we do it in California! $7k! Best deal in town after the safety course 😉
https://www.robinsonheli.com/training/r66-transition-course
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 245
Likes: 5
From: longwayplace
You are entitled to your opinion, but having spent a lot of my career in the training industry and being intimately familiar with the 505 training program I can say that you are not correct about the cost and funding for training.
For what it is worth, I am the one you can thank for holding R22 spare part prices flat for almost my entire time at the company. I also made sure that when we doubled the life of the R66 parts last year we passed most of the financial benefit to the customer even though some of the new revisions cost more to make.
We have tried to be sensitive to the running costs of our aircraft which is the dominant driver of affordability. If biannual (or every 5 years!) training cost is dominating your flight expenses, you are not flying enough.
PS: take a look at our new R66 Transition course that directly compares to the $17k 505 course… we offer more flight time, more ground school and we do it in California! $7k! Best deal in town after the safety course 😉
https://www.robinsonheli.com/trainin...nsition-course
For what it is worth, I am the one you can thank for holding R22 spare part prices flat for almost my entire time at the company. I also made sure that when we doubled the life of the R66 parts last year we passed most of the financial benefit to the customer even though some of the new revisions cost more to make.
We have tried to be sensitive to the running costs of our aircraft which is the dominant driver of affordability. If biannual (or every 5 years!) training cost is dominating your flight expenses, you are not flying enough.
PS: take a look at our new R66 Transition course that directly compares to the $17k 505 course… we offer more flight time, more ground school and we do it in California! $7k! Best deal in town after the safety course 😉
https://www.robinsonheli.com/trainin...nsition-course
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 888
Likes: 65
From: California
You are entitled to your opinion, but having spent a lot of my career in the training industry and being intimately familiar with the 505 training program I can say that you are not correct about the cost and funding for training.
For what it is worth, I am the one you can thank for holding R22 spare part prices flat for almost my entire time at the company. I also made sure that when we doubled the life of the R66 parts last year we passed most of the financial benefit to the customer even though some of the new revisions cost more to make.
We have tried to be sensitive to the running costs of our aircraft which is the dominant driver of affordability. If biannual (or every 5 years!) training cost is dominating your flight expenses, you are not flying enough.
PS: take a look at our new R66 Transition course that directly compares to the $17k 505 course… we offer more flight time, more ground school and we do it in California! $7k! Best deal in town after the safety course 😉
https://www.robinsonheli.com/trainin...nsition-course
For what it is worth, I am the one you can thank for holding R22 spare part prices flat for almost my entire time at the company. I also made sure that when we doubled the life of the R66 parts last year we passed most of the financial benefit to the customer even though some of the new revisions cost more to make.
We have tried to be sensitive to the running costs of our aircraft which is the dominant driver of affordability. If biannual (or every 5 years!) training cost is dominating your flight expenses, you are not flying enough.
PS: take a look at our new R66 Transition course that directly compares to the $17k 505 course… we offer more flight time, more ground school and we do it in California! $7k! Best deal in town after the safety course 😉
https://www.robinsonheli.com/trainin...nsition-course
To be frank (pun in there somewhere) after the second trip I found that the course didn't offer anything new to learn anyway. I just kept going because it was fun way to get my BFR.
,..but then (this being McRib season) I used to get at least half a dozen of those before it ended. Now (at their ridiculous price increase) I can only afford one. That's life I guess.
What's that quote I'm think of from an old Mel Brooks movie? Oh yeah,..."!!!! the poor".
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 888
Likes: 65
From: California
The $1800 was for the R44 course.
The R22 course is listed as $1133.
If your budget is $1800 a year, in modern money, in these parts, thats about 4 or 5 hours of rental in a R44, and that isn't enough for currency and proficiency. Costs have more than doubled in 10 years. Probably safe to say that you wouldn't be the target market and it doesn't reflect any Robbie drivers I know. Helicopter flying is not value for money, and if you can't afford the hours or training it is probably better to consider fixed wing instead.
As a percentage of total spend to obtain a license, $1200-$1800 is barely scratching the surface.
The R22 course is listed as $1133.
If your budget is $1800 a year, in modern money, in these parts, thats about 4 or 5 hours of rental in a R44, and that isn't enough for currency and proficiency. Costs have more than doubled in 10 years. Probably safe to say that you wouldn't be the target market and it doesn't reflect any Robbie drivers I know. Helicopter flying is not value for money, and if you can't afford the hours or training it is probably better to consider fixed wing instead.
As a percentage of total spend to obtain a license, $1200-$1800 is barely scratching the surface.
My rental budget was about $4k a year (to rent the 22). So the increase to $1,800 would be (like I said) about half that. The rental price I was paying for the 22 went from about $180/hr in 2003 to $280/hr in 2019, then the school closed.
Today (when I fly once every six months with a babysitter because there's no place near me to rent anymore) its $350/hr for the 22.
Even when I have found places to rent (usually at least an hour and a half drive away) they require ridiculously expenses renters insurance now. So, I've basically been priced out of the self-fly-hire game.
It was fun while it lasted though.
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 888
Likes: 65
From: California
Joined: Jun 2016
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,318
Likes: 386
From: Brantisvogan
Be grateful that we have a senior member of their team taking time to speak to a broad community based on extensive experience and a deep understanding of the business. Yet we have one individual who does not represent the typical customer, making a fuss because they, individually, are cash-strapped and are completely disconnected from the state of the global economy.
Costs have not changed in isolation and it remains the best value and opportunity for pilots to train and fly rotorcraft.
For those of us that own and run businesses, it has been an interesting journey the last many years and costs aren't pushed onto customers because we'd like larger dividends, as nice as that would be. For the most part, thanks to global, and frequently US-lead, issues we are having to suck up more and more to ease client pain, which despite appearances, has a negative effect on the bottom line.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,111
Likes: 118
Corporate greed? Sounds more like customer ignorance.
Be grateful that we have a senior member of their team taking time to speak to a broad community based on extensive experience and a deep understanding of the business. Yet we have one individual who does not represent the typical customer, making a fuss because they, individually, are cash-strapped and are completely disconnected from the state of the global economy.
Costs have not changed in isolation and it remains the best value and opportunity for pilots to train and fly rotorcraft.
For those of us that own and run businesses, it has been an interesting journey the last many years and costs aren't pushed onto customers because we'd like larger dividends, as nice as that would be. For the most part, thanks to global, and frequently US-lead, issues we are having to suck up more and more to ease client pain, which despite appearances, has a negative effect on the bottom line.
Be grateful that we have a senior member of their team taking time to speak to a broad community based on extensive experience and a deep understanding of the business. Yet we have one individual who does not represent the typical customer, making a fuss because they, individually, are cash-strapped and are completely disconnected from the state of the global economy.
Costs have not changed in isolation and it remains the best value and opportunity for pilots to train and fly rotorcraft.
For those of us that own and run businesses, it has been an interesting journey the last many years and costs aren't pushed onto customers because we'd like larger dividends, as nice as that would be. For the most part, thanks to global, and frequently US-lead, issues we are having to suck up more and more to ease client pain, which despite appearances, has a negative effect on the bottom line.
Joined: Jun 2016
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,318
Likes: 386
From: Brantisvogan
And he is entitled to it, but does the dead horse need to be flogged so long?
With respect, there is no shortage of points being made on internet forums.
Of the gripes about cost of operation or flying, if this is a material issue for you then you have bigger problems.
In the context of Robinson as a whole, and where they are heading, is this really what you want to talk about?
With respect, there is no shortage of points being made on internet forums.
Of the gripes about cost of operation or flying, if this is a material issue for you then you have bigger problems.
In the context of Robinson as a whole, and where they are heading, is this really what you want to talk about?
Joined: Oct 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,371
Likes: 926
From: Den Haag
I don't think they offer such a thing, but it would be interesting to get a price for an equivalent 4 days course in Marseille/Marignane with one hour in an EC120 - a bit more than 1,300 euros I suspect 
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 888
Likes: 65
From: California
Corporate greed? Sounds more like customer ignorance.
Be grateful that we have a senior member of their team taking time to speak to a broad community based on extensive experience and a deep understanding of the business. Yet we have one individual who does not represent the typical customer, making a fuss because they, individually, are cash-strapped and are completely disconnected from the state of the global economy.
Costs have not changed in isolation and it remains the best value and opportunity for pilots to train and fly rotorcraft.
For those of us that own and run businesses, it has been an interesting journey the last many years and costs aren't pushed onto customers because we'd like larger dividends, as nice as that would be. For the most part, thanks to global, and frequently US-lead, issues we are having to suck up more and more to ease client pain, which despite appearances, has a negative effect on the bottom line.
Be grateful that we have a senior member of their team taking time to speak to a broad community based on extensive experience and a deep understanding of the business. Yet we have one individual who does not represent the typical customer, making a fuss because they, individually, are cash-strapped and are completely disconnected from the state of the global economy.
Costs have not changed in isolation and it remains the best value and opportunity for pilots to train and fly rotorcraft.
For those of us that own and run businesses, it has been an interesting journey the last many years and costs aren't pushed onto customers because we'd like larger dividends, as nice as that would be. For the most part, thanks to global, and frequently US-lead, issues we are having to suck up more and more to ease client pain, which despite appearances, has a negative effect on the bottom line.
Again,...it took 15 years to go up just $250 bucks, then in less than 5 years, it more than doubled! The course is $1,000 bucks more now than it was in 2021!
,...but I suppose your defense now will be, they were undercharging us for 15 years and now its up to "fair market value".
I've been to this course 6 times. It ain't worth $1,800 bucks!,...even without the additional $500 minimum for a hotel.
,..and you want to beat a dead horse, let's head on over to the Settling With Power megathread. This one's barely 2 pages, lol.