Helicopter crash New York City
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 112
Likes: 170
From: California
New video - horizontal flight, spins, tail separates, fuselage spins once or twice, rotor separates and fuselage begins the plunge.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsin...to_the_hudson/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsin...to_the_hudson/
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 44
Likes: 60
From: Reno, NV.
New video - horizontal flight, spins, tail separates, fuselage spins once or twice, rotor separates and fuselage begins the plunge.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsin...to_the_hudson/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsin...to_the_hudson/
Joined: Sep 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 2,371
Likes: 877
From: Canada
Isn't a mast bumping event a very low G, too much rotor disc forward, rather than back situation? I was taught that very low G, or excess forward cyclic could result in mast bumping, can too much aft cyclic also result in mast bumping? In any case, would this be a possible mast bumping event, believing that the whole transmission can be seen departing the fuselage?
I recall that the 206B has a pin down from the transmission case, to restrict that transmission tilting motion in a mast bumping situation. If I recall correctly the 206L had a "Noda-Matic" transmission mounting, which was a little different to the 206B.”
I recall that the 206B has a pin down from the transmission case, to restrict that transmission tilting motion in a mast bumping situation. If I recall correctly the 206L had a "Noda-Matic" transmission mounting, which was a little different to the 206B.”
I think you are referring to the transmission pin and “Strike Plate” in the 206 A/B. It was a witness indicator of excessive transmission movement not a restricting device.
the pin extended down into a rectangular hole which was surrounded by a thin plate riveted to the transmission deck. If the pin hit the plate with excessive force it could distort the plate or even shear the rivets. Usually caused by excessive lateral not longitudinal movement of the transmission.
Joined: Oct 2019
Aviation Qualifications: Non-Aircrew
Posts: 1,689
Likes: 1,069
From: USA
A person claiming to be a helicopter pilot made a comment on that reddit thread they thought the aircraft was already at a high yaw before the initial separation. It looked like a small blob of pixels to me, even full screen so I was unsure, except for the identifiable helicopter profile. However there did not appear to be any maneuvering prior to the initiation of the spin. The end events of the removed reddit video was the same as that from the cell phone.
If it comes up again, the video looked to be a fixed camera pretty high up and looking between two buildings. The camera does not pan as the more often shown one does and starts before the breakup.
Would loss of tail rotor control at what looked to me like a fair cruise speed (100 kts?) result in this sort of breakup?
EDIT: reposted at: https://www.reddit.com/r/Catastrophi...ash_in_hudson/
If it comes up again, the video looked to be a fixed camera pretty high up and looking between two buildings. The camera does not pan as the more often shown one does and starts before the breakup.
Would loss of tail rotor control at what looked to me like a fair cruise speed (100 kts?) result in this sort of breakup?
EDIT: reposted at: https://www.reddit.com/r/Catastrophi...ash_in_hudson/
Last edited by MechEngr; 11th April 2025 at 04:26.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,697
Likes: 71
From: Wanaka, NZ
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 77
Likes: 8
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Similar accident to VH-ZMF in 2022 (accident report)
TLDR: VH-ZMF was B206L-1 Flying straight and level, until suddenly tail sliced off and rotor with transmission coming down separate to main hull and engine. report findings: likely bird strikle startled pilot causing abrupt input rotor took off the tail
TLDR: VH-ZMF was B206L-1 Flying straight and level, until suddenly tail sliced off and rotor with transmission coming down separate to main hull and engine. report findings: likely bird strikle startled pilot causing abrupt input rotor took off the tail
Joined: Aug 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 83
From: Gold Coast, Australia
From a recent update in the Courier Mail:
New York Helicopter Tour CEO Michael Roth told reporters he was devastated by the tragedy.
“(The pilot) called in that he was landing and that he needed fuel, and it should have taken him about three minutes to arrive, but 20 minutes later, he didn’t arrive,” he said.
“I’m a father and a grandfather and to have children on there, I’m devastated. I’m absolutely devastated.
“The only thing I know by watching a video of the helicopter falling down, that the main rotor blades weren’t on the helicopter.”
“(The pilot) called in that he was landing and that he needed fuel, and it should have taken him about three minutes to arrive, but 20 minutes later, he didn’t arrive,” he said.
“I’m a father and a grandfather and to have children on there, I’m devastated. I’m absolutely devastated.
“The only thing I know by watching a video of the helicopter falling down, that the main rotor blades weren’t on the helicopter.”
Joined: Jun 2016
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,318
Likes: 386
From: Brantisvogan
Perhaps, since this is the rotary section, enthusiasts and non-pilots could just keep quiet, since this is not facebook, and it is challenging reading such drivel from some people who clearly have no clue about helicopters.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,328
Likes: 74
From: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Dogtail - Yes, it's quite common in the pleasure flying world, with proper supervision, of course. The gazelle has a clutch so you can keep the engine running while the rotors are stopped.
Makes you think what? Were they all Longrangers?
Looks to me like the top bit of the gearbox came off, where the brown stuff goes.
Makes you think what? Were they all Longrangers?
Looks to me like the top bit of the gearbox came off, where the brown stuff goes.
Joined: Jun 2016
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,318
Likes: 386
From: Brantisvogan
A frame by frame clip shows a sudden yaw and the tail folding to the right. The rotor system appears to be under power at this point. The severed tail is struck as it drifts above the falling aircraft. The gearbox is the last to depart about a third of the way down.
On the surface it could be a catastrophic transmission failure.
There seems to be enough of the wreck remaining to come to a conclusive finding as to the cause.
Until then, it is just speculation.
On the surface it could be a catastrophic transmission failure.
There seems to be enough of the wreck remaining to come to a conclusive finding as to the cause.
Until then, it is just speculation.
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 11
Likes: 15
From: Southern Lakes
Whilst I agree with your sentiment, there may well be a few engineers with valid observations. Pilots don't always have the answers.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 218
Likes: 52
From: Europe
Happened to pilot I know well - he instinctivelly pulled back when terrain suddenly appeared in front of helicopter - tailboom cut off, hit the ground, skids torn off, but transmission held so he was able to autorotate (kind of) and both occupants survived with some bruises - after tailless and skidless helicopter "landed", overturned on its side, shattering M/R pieces all around.
Another one I am intimate with: (luckily on ground) pilot instinctively pushed cyclic stick forward, so no tailboom strike, but everything up from cabin roof was overhauled/replaced. (mast and M/R hub replaced, transmission overhauled, transmission mounts replaced. Aft transmision mount (flexible-rubber) was almost torn away)
My five cents guess: an instinctive overreaction on imminent collision with something (birdstrike, drone strike....) 206 is otherwise a sturdy, reliable machine. I worked on them many years. 206L has different transmission mounts, that I am not familiar of, but if it is a "nodal beam" principle, it is much more complex than simple A-frame on 206B - that probably can`t handle so much abuse as basic Jet Ranger transmission mount can. Obviously, tail was chopped off first, than main rotor with main transmission departed - my hypothesis explains that sequence. We will need to wait for NTSB report to, hopefully, know for sure.. R.I.P.
Last edited by hoistop; 11th April 2025 at 08:42.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: UK
Huey’s.
It was Huey’s flying nap of the earth,push overs following terrain negative G unload blades tail detachment.They lost a few before they had a surviving crew that explained what had happened.
Joined: Jun 2016
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,318
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From: Brantisvogan
Joined: Jun 2016
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,318
Likes: 386
From: Brantisvogan
It is inherently difficult to look at grainy, mobile footage and determine the root cause.
That is what investigations are for.
What is cause, and what is effect cannot be determined with the information that is available.
That is what investigations are for.
What is cause, and what is effect cannot be determined with the information that is available.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 148
Likes: 17
From: UK
In the reddit video, there is a massive yaw to the left to almost 90 degrees followed by a slight swing back to course then tailboom appears to break under aerodynamic forces as the aircraft descends, following by separation of rotors and gearbox together. Could a gearbox failure stop the tailrotor causing a massive uncontrollable yaw to the left? (any B206 pilots can confirm this?)
RIP to all involved, a horrific and tragic accident.
RIP to all involved, a horrific and tragic accident.
