HEMS FTL

[Macaco Norte]

Are there any UK HEMS operations, using all alleviations/NVIS etc, that use a CAT FTL rather than the HEMS variation

[212man]

Originally Posted by Macaco Norte

Are there any HEMS operations, using all alleviations/NVIS etc, that use a CAT FTL rather than the HEMS variation

Surely it depends on the state? There is no EASA Rotary FTL scheme and individual states publish their own. How they differentiate between CAT and HEMS and other SPA activities may vary.

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by Macaco Norte

Are there any UK HEMS operations, using all alleviations/NVIS etc, that use a CAT FTL rather than the HEMS variation

For what purpose do you wish to know this information?

[Aucky]

Originally Posted by Macaco Norte

Are there any UK HEMS operations, using all alleviations/NVIS etc, that use a CAT FTL rather than the HEMS variation

If by ‘CAT FTL’ in the UK you mean the standard CAP371 scheme then yes, some can. It’s not about NVIS or not, it depends on how many daily hours of coverage are required, and how many consecutive late-finishes or early starts.

If you want to fly 12hr single-pilot as standard then CAP371 doesn’t allow this. Similarly, if you want to fly 24hr CAP371 doesn’t permit the standard 2D, 2N, 1 REST, 3 OFF pattern. However, you can cover 19hrs per day multi-pilot across an early and late shift on a 4/4 pattern within the standard CAP371 scheme which is a common HEMS pattern in some locations (with NVIS).

Where CAP371 doesn’t work sensible alternatives can be sought and approved.

[Macaco Norte]

I know what can be done & why. I’m asking who does what. I’d like to know if any use the std CAT FTL. In my experience it’s not common. If they do, when they reach the end of shift, let’s say 0200hrs, how much discretion would they use? 3hrs?

[Aucky]

Originally Posted by Macaco Norte

I’d like to know if any use the std CAT FTL. In my experience it’s not common. If they do, when they reach the end of shift, let’s say 0200hrs, how much discretion would they use? 3hrs?

As I say, some do, and yes 3hrs discretion is available (CAA to be notified if more than 2hrs used).

Why? Operational flexibility, no need to adhere to a rigid specified 4/4 pattern (or as otherwise agreed on the variation pattern), pilots can cover extra shifts if required, pattern doesn’t require specific approval etc etc. If you don’t need to be on a variation for the reasons given in my earlier post then it can be less restrictive not to be. That said, it’s not all that common because in many cases there is a reason CAP371 won’t work.

[Macaco Norte]

Ffs! Thanks for your replies but I don’t need things explaining to me. I didn’t ask how it works or how it could work. See my original post. I want to know if it happens.

[Aucky]

I’m not sure which part of your question hasn’t been answered? Yes, it happens, at at least 4 UK HEMS operations I know of. Yes, 3hrs discretion is available, which you know if you’ve read CAP371 and know what it says.

[gipsymagpie]

Originally Posted by Macaco Norte

Ffs! Thanks for your replies but I don’t need things explaining to me. I didn’t ask how it works or how it could work. See my original post. I want to know if it happens.

Going back to your original post, there is no difference in the UK between a helicopter CAT and a HEMS operation. They all derive from CAP371. There are no special alleviations for HEMS but there are particular variations that often get used on HEMS units through an agreed FTL scheme (eg the 12 hour 4/4 roster). I have seen both the 12 hour 4/4 variation, a complex 28 cycle with early and lates (much better that 4/4), a 5/2, a 6/4 and a 6/3 shift cycle in HEMS UK.

But I think maybe you are asking a different question. No, none of them are using the CAA FTL in Part ORO.FTL and CAP 1826. That is strictly fixed wing only.

[Yonez]

😂😂 I feel your pain.
The simple answer is ‘Yes’.
We currently operate using the CAT FTL. We had no HEMS variation when the operation started up. We do now though but still use a CAT FTL, which is surprising.
You would think that having requested operational timings of 0700 - 0200 for a HEMS operation & granted this by the CAA, We would be required to work within these times & to a HEMS variation. This would only allow discretion to be used for 1 hour past 0200, 2 in emergency & that being notifiable. Using the CAT FTL though enables discretion to 3 hrs. So a 0500 finish. Most of us limit ourselves to the 1 hr past 0200 but there are still some that will offer the 3😳
HEMS operations are known to be unique especially at night & it’s often thought to be the ‘Ninja’ of civilian helicopter operations. Which is why the further restrictions.
I thought the HEMS variation was to be a harmonised scheme across EASA & CAA but it appears not. Unless it’s just that some operations don’t apply it.
I see some of your respondents think that FTL are designed to manage rosters, they're not, they’re to manage fatigue.

[gipsymagpie]

I would say no such thing as a HEMS variation. There is a scheme your operation has agreed with the CAA which you might use for HEMS but there's not really a selection of off the shelf ready made HEMS options in CAP 371 (current UK helicopter FTL guidance - written before HEMS was a thing). Any variation is done by asking the CAA.

Also your manual and SOP should make it clear how much discretion can be used and how it can be used. The decision to use 1 or 3 hrs should also be based on some guidance in the SOP based on crew fatigue and operational need.

As examples of what manuals should cover, disctetion must be never be rostered (eg your shift today is 15 hrs to cover Dave who has a medical appointment). It should only be used if a particular HEMS task takes you over your shift end time.

But your procedures should also cover a few fairly common scenarios.

• What if the job comes in before shift end but you won't be able to lift from base until after shift end?
• What if you are already in discretion and you get a job on the way back to base?
• What if you have started to get the aircraft back in the shed, removed a few items of kit and then you get a job?

There is scope to amend an FTL scheme to suit. If you don't like the scheme as it's too permissive (eg 3 he's discretion is too long), change it through an NPA



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