PPL(H) USA training and UK conversion....

[Just_Waiting]

Hi All,

I've got the opportunity to work in the USA over the next couple of years, and was wondering what the exepcted cost would be to do my PPL(H) in the USA, and then presuming it's possible converting to a UK PPL(H) when I'm back. Anyone done it that way? What are the pros/cons?

Thanks,
Mark

[rudestuff]

It all depends how you you get the FAA cert and how many hours you'll fly on it. There are no minimum flight hours for FAA private helicopter if done as an add-on rating so you can do it with as few as 20 hours on a Robinson (fewer on something else) but you'll need 45 hours to convert it to a UK PPL(H). There are places in the US where you can do the CAA conversion (or at least there were when I did it).

[Just_Waiting]

I'd be starting from scratch, so guessing I'd need the 45 hours anyway? Would you say it makes sense from a cost point of view to do it in the USA, given that I'll be working over there anyway so flights/accomodation costs wouldn't really come into it?

[rudestuff]

It certainly used to be cheaper, you'd have to check prices to be sure. Also, depending on where you go if you have great weather you'll learn a lot quicker than somewhere with poor weather. You'll also jave to factor in conversion costs.

[In India]

Realistically you want to convert with at least 100 hours total time.

Hardly anyone gets a PPL with 45 hours. Budget for between 50 and 55.

https://www.caa.co.uk/general-aviati...-january-2023/

[Gordy]

Originally Posted by rudestuff

There are no minimum flight hours for FAA private helicopter if done as an add-on rating

Technically not true, there are minimums, as you said, yes technically one could do it in as few as 13 hours.

Regulation Here

(c) For a helicopter rating. Except as provided in paragraph (k) of this section, a person who applies for a private pilot certificate with rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in § 61.107(b)(3) of this part, and the training must include at least -

(1) 3 hours of cross-country flight training in a helicopter;

(2) Except as provided in § 61.110 of this part, 3 hours of night flight training in a helicopter that includes -

(i) One cross-country flight of over 50 nautical miles total distance; and

(ii) 10 takeoffs and 10 landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport.

(3) 3 hours of flight training with an authorized instructor in a helicopter in preparation for the practical test, which must have been performed within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test; and

(4) 10 hours of solo flight time in a helicopter, consisting of at least -

(i) 3 hours cross-country time;

(ii) One solo cross country flight of 100 nautical miles total distance, with landings at three points, and one segment of the flight being a straight-line distance of more than 25 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations; and

(iii) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.

[rudestuff]

Originally Posted by Gordy

Technically not true, there are minimums, as you said, yes technically one could do it in as few as 13 hours.

Regulation Here

Ok I'll be honest, I worded that intentionally to be a trap...😜

I'll see your 61.109 and raise you 61.63(c)(3)

If you wanted a PPL (or CPL) on the cheap you could first get the certificate in a Gyro. Then as an additional class (your second rotorcraft) there are zero minimums, zero solo, zero PIC - just train to proficiency.

[Gordy]

Originally Posted by rudestuff

Ok I'll be honest, I worded that intentionally to be a trap...😜

I'll see your 61.109 and raise you 61.63(c)(3)

If you wanted a PPL (or CPL) on the cheap you could first get the certificate in a Gyro. Then as an additional class (your second rotorcraft) there are zero minimums, zero solo, zero PIC - just train to proficiency.

Ahhh ifen only it was that easy....... You still need to get the initial certificate in the Rotorcraft Gyroplane before you add the helicopter. So you need 40 hours in the Gyro first....good luck finding an instructor: What am I missing?

(d) For a gyroplane rating. Except as provided in paragraph (k) of this section, a person who applies for a private pilot certificate with rotorcraft category and gyroplane class rating must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in § 61.107(b)(4) of this part, and the training must include at least -

(1) 3 hours of cross-country flight training in a gyroplane;

(2) Except as provided in § 61.110 of this part, 3 hours of night flight training in a gyroplane that includes -

(i) One cross-country flight of over 50 nautical miles total distance; and

(ii) 10 takeoffs and 10 landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport.

(3) 3 hours of flight training with an authorized instructor in a gyroplane in preparation for the practical test, which must have been performed within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test; and

(4) 10 hours of solo flight time in a gyroplane, consisting of at least -

(i) 3 hours of cross-country time;

(ii) One solo cross country flight of 100 nautical miles total distance, with landings at three points, and one segment of the flight being a straight-line distance of more than 25 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations; and

(iii) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.

Maybe you were looking at the "sport pilot" route which can be done in less hours...however:

https://drs.faa.gov/browse/excelExte...70065B69C.0001

TITLE: Is my sport pilot certificate issued with aircraft category and class ratings?

SECTION RULE:[Your sport pilot certificate does not list aircraft category and class ratings. When you successfully pass the practical test for a sport pilot certificate, regardless of the light- sport aircraft privileges you seek, the FAA will issue you a sport pilot certificate without any category and class ratings. The FAA will provide you with a logbook endorsement for the category and class of aircraft in which you are authorized to act as pilot in command. ]

​​​​​​​So no good in this scenario

[Just_Waiting]

Not looking to do it 'on the cheap', but if I could save a bit of money doing it in the USA without any negatives then I think it would be worthwhile.

[RMK]

Over the past 20 years, the rule of thumb is that a PPL-H will cost the same nominal number for either USD or GBP (i.e. either USD 15-20k or GBP 15-20k). I hold both FAA and CAA licences standalone not “piggy back”. I did my FAA in 2006, FX exchange rate was around 2:1 at the time; so half price for FAA – at today’s FX, you will see circa 30% savings on the US FAA side. The average time is usually 55-65hrs.

I’d suggest you get separate licences and not “convert” anything. The FAA licence is so easy to maintain with only a biennial flight Review (BFR) and no type ratings for aircraft below 5700kg.

Once you hold a FAA certificate, you merely have to meet the CAA requirements to sit your flight test (written exams, dual training to test standards and possible any specific requirement such as 5hrs "foggle" flying – which I don’t know is still required).


EDIT: Out of curiosity, just looked in logbook. I was living in London and made five separate trips to Florida (for my FAA) with stays ranging from five days to two weeks at time. 40 total training days including the day of my exam flight. Did my JAA (EASA precursor) exam flight after 6.5 hours dual in UK two months later.

[PPRuNeUser469990]

Min 5 hours 'foggles' no longer required for a uk ppl.

Most UK PPL(H) students take 70-100 hrs to get a PPL these days. UK PPL test standards seem a lot higher than years ago. This could be coming from the CAA/Examiners/Schools, or from schools looking to make more money, or both.

If you turned up at a UK flight school with an FAA PPL(H), I would budget another 10-20 hours to get a UK CAA PPL(H). You would need to pass a few ground exams (see links below), a practical radio test , a UK CAA class 2 medical, "training as required" (as deemed by the school) to reach CAA test standard, then the practical skills test.

Yes, I know 10-20 hours is a lot (considering you already have a PPL)... but you would need to re-do some manouvers (as they are taught slightly different in the UK), learn some new ones (eg downwind quickstops, OS map work, navigation at low height/poor visibility, advanced autos, radio navigation), learn how to Navigate and talk in busy UK airspace, doing some foggle flying (2 hours?), familiarise yourself with the local area/procedures, and a 2 hour skills test. That's at least 10 hours flying there.

FAA PPL to CAA PPL is not a "conversion" per se, it's just you are given allowances as you already hold an ICAO PPL.

https://www.caa.co.uk/general-aviati...r-helicopters/


https://www.caa.co.uk/general-aviati...-january-2023/