EEJ training requirements

[ctscanner]

Following a conversation a few days back about EEJ training I was surprised to hear that my friend had not had to physically remove the cockpit window and 'escape' from the aircraft something that they had previously been required to do on a three yearly basis as part of the regulatory requirement. It appears now that watching a video is sufficient.

How common is it now within the industry that operators require their pilots to routinely conduct actual EEJ training in order that you can experience the angles/force required/release mechanisms for the type you fly. I am specifically thinking about larger types with escape windows.

[helicrazi]

Originally Posted by ctscanner

Following a conversation a few days back about EEJ training I was surprised to hear that my friend had not had to physically remove the cockpit window and 'escape' from the aircraft something that they had previously been required to do on a three yearly basis as part of the regulatory requirement. It appears now that watching a video is sufficient.

How common is it now within the industry that operators require their pilots to routinely conduct actual EEJ training in order that you can experience the angles/force required/release mechanisms for the type you fly. I am specifically thinking about larger types with escape windows.

Someone the dunkers have replicated windows that replicates it quite well.

Some operators have dedicated training doors too

[ctscanner]

Thanks helicrazi

I am not sure that a dunker should be acceptable for type specific EEJ, I recall going through the Southampton dunker a few years ago and (I may have a fading memory) but think the window on that was just held in place by velcro so hardly a realistic representation.

I have not heard of dedicated training doors, are these common? They make sense I suppose as it removes the potential to damage the actual aircraft but it is only really effective if it is an accurate model of the real aircraft including seating position.

[212man]

AMC1 ORO.FC.230 Recurrent training and checking

(iii) Every 3 years the programme of training should include the following:

(A) actual operation of all types of exits;

[PlasticCabDriver]

Originally Posted by ctscanner

Thanks helicrazi

I am not sure that a dunker should be acceptable for type specific EEJ, I recall going through the Southampton dunker a few years ago and (I may have a fading memory) but think the window on that was just held in place by velcro so hardly a realistic representation.

I have not heard of dedicated training doors, are these common? They make sense I suppose as it removes the potential to damage the actual aircraft but it is only really effective if it is an accurate model of the real aircraft including seating position.

The dunker we currently use at Abz does to a degree. There is a handle that is in the same place and works in the same way as the real one, releasing an actual window. That’s for the 175 but AFAIK there is also one for the 92 as well.

[helicrazi]

Originally Posted by ctscanner

Thanks helicrazi

I am not sure that a dunker should be acceptable for type specific EEJ, I recall going through the Southampton dunker a few years ago and (I may have a fading memory) but think the window on that was just held in place by velcro so hardly a realistic representation.

I have not heard of dedicated training doors, are these common? They make sense I suppose as it removes the potential to damage the actual aircraft but it is only really effective if it is an accurate model of the real aircraft including seating position.

I mean actual doors from the aircraft that have been declared u/s for various reasons, they make great traning aids

[highrpm]

Originally Posted by ctscanner

Following a conversation a few days back about EEJ training I was surprised to hear that my friend had not had to physically remove the cockpit window and 'escape' from the aircraft something that they had previously been required to do on a three yearly basis as part of the regulatory requirement. It appears now that watching a video is sufficient.

How common is it now within the industry that operators require their pilots to routinely conduct actual EEJ training in order that you can experience the angles/force required/release mechanisms for the type you fly. I am specifically thinking about larger types with escape windows.

The problem is, if you want to get the actual benefit you describe of 100% realism of forces, angles & opening mechanisms then you have to use a real window in a real door. Anything else is some approximation. As 212 quotes in the regulation it says actual operation of all exits (not simulated exits).

In my experience, if the exit is the whole door being jettisoned you can generally find a bit of matting and a friendly engineer and do an actual door release drill. However, this is not the case with larger offshore machines, and if you’ve ever tried popping an AW139 window with any haste, you’re lucky if you don’t trash the seal and/or crack the window in the process. You also struggle to re-seat the seal without the ‘pull tab’ flapping about forevermore. Therefore, at best you’ll generally be using some retired and re-used door/window/seal combo which is generally far easier to pop than the real thing, and you won’t be upside-down, wet and in the dark during that training.

Fake doors? I’ve tried them, but in truth it’s just another ‘training aid’ like a video, which to some extent replicates the real thing, but not with the accuracy you may desire. The law of diminishing returns comes into play. IMHO, a good video, technical brief, and aircraft touch drills combined with HUET drills is just as beneficial as elaborate, expensive, and still unrealistic hangar props.

[ctscanner]

It must be a pain in the rear for engineers when they know that actual aircraft windows are going to be popped for training because presumably some of them can be really tricky to put back in without damaging the seals, assuming they were not damaged during the removal. The training benefit to the pilot however must be invaluable especially if they find it difficult. I can understand maybe not having to remove actual windows if your role is an overland one but for offshore operations surely it should be mandated.

is there anyone out there that has never removed their window?
are there any types of helicopter difficult to remove the window from?

[Nescafe]

​​​​is there anyone out there that has never removed their window?
​​​

In 25 years of flying, almost all of it over water, I have never removed an aircraft window or jettisoned a door.

[Same again]

Does anyone know if the RN HUET training ay Yeovilton is available for civilians? https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/interna...scape-training