Autorotation Question - Video
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From: Here, there, and everywhere
Autorotation Question - Video
Hi,
Apologies if this accident had an earlier thread. As a fixed wing pilot, my question for this incident with a landing on the beach is......Would it be better to attempt a landing in shallow water to avoid the heavy landing that can damage one's back?
Apologies if this accident had an earlier thread. As a fixed wing pilot, my question for this incident with a landing on the beach is......Would it be better to attempt a landing in shallow water to avoid the heavy landing that can damage one's back?
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Poplar Grove, IL, USA
Hi,
Apologies if this accident had an earlier thread. As a fixed wing pilot, my question for this incident with a landing on the beach is......Would it be better to attempt a landing in shallow water to avoid the heavy landing that can damage one's back?
(20) Thenewarea51 on X: "Absolutely wild footage, this is a real world engine failure in a MD500 (Think Magnum P.I. helicopter) over Kauai, Hawaii out on a tour flight. You’ll probably have to watch this a few times but the video starts out with the helicopter under power and then the engine sound goes… https://t.co/tFVGhqypzx" / X (twitter.com)
Apologies if this accident had an earlier thread. As a fixed wing pilot, my question for this incident with a landing on the beach is......Would it be better to attempt a landing in shallow water to avoid the heavy landing that can damage one's back?
(20) Thenewarea51 on X: "Absolutely wild footage, this is a real world engine failure in a MD500 (Think Magnum P.I. helicopter) over Kauai, Hawaii out on a tour flight. You’ll probably have to watch this a few times but the video starts out with the helicopter under power and then the engine sound goes… https://t.co/tFVGhqypzx" / X (twitter.com)
Joined: Jan 2024
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From: Finland
Helicopter landing gear and seats are designed to absorb loads on hard landing. Landing on water could be even harder on occupants backs because the landing gear can't absorb the impact. If the landing is harder than the landing gear can handle, then the helicopter will practically always roll over due to blades stiking surface and or tail boom and even a shallow water can lead to drowning. I would always pick hard flat land over water.
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: EGDC
Punkalouver - unless you know the beach well, your assessment of shallow water depth is likely to be wrong - when helicopters enter the water they usually, as mechpowi says, roll over. Imagine a successful forced landing to the water and then being trapped upside down in a sinking helicopter - rather a lot of people have sadly died that way.
I, like others, have been trained for underwater escape and the first time you do it, it makes you realise that without training or specialist equipment (STASS) you probably won't get out.
If you have a choice then the beach is the better option
I, like others, have been trained for underwater escape and the first time you do it, it makes you realise that without training or specialist equipment (STASS) you probably won't get out.
If you have a choice then the beach is the better option
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From: Finland
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
30 ft tall thick trees would be my choice* - if you landed correctly (tail first) you would at least stay on top of them. If you break your arm going into water you wouldn't be able to open the door, training or not.
*Al Ascah at Remote Helicopters had done that 3 times in his career and always carried a length of rope after the first one.
*Al Ascah at Remote Helicopters had done that 3 times in his career and always carried a length of rope after the first one.
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Canada
30 ft tall thick trees would be my choice* - if you landed correctly (tail first) you would at least stay on top of them. If you break your arm going into water you wouldn't be able to open the door, training or not.
*Al Ascah at Remote Helicopters had done that 3 times in his career and always carried a length of rope after the first one.
*Al Ascah at Remote Helicopters had done that 3 times in his career and always carried a length of rope after the first one.
As to the video it is hard to see what happened at the bottom before and during the flare.
Anyone know why the engine failed…sounded like something broke with a big “thud”.
I had a very noisy catastrophic engine failure in a 206L at gross weight (Now Maximum Mass) …kinda got my attention…had to do a 270 from +- 700 agl to make a spot for a zero speed touchdown..0 wind hot day…bent the rear crosstube a bit.
Last edited by albatross; 29th April 2024 at 13:21.
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From: Downeast
The video reminds me of an engine failure I had on a 500D....one big "BANG" and it was all down hill from there....the end result was not a scratch on the aircraft and a long walk out of the woods in the dark in the wilds of Alaska where I was not on the top of the food chain.
As I see it...given the choice of sea water or a sandy beach.....I would endeavor to make a soft zero ground run landing to the beach. Even if it turned out all wrong and the helicopter rolls over....at least once the dust settles you should be able to crawl out, stand up, and dust yourself off since the helicopter is not strapped to your hind end as it sinks to the bottom of the sea. Even with open doors as seen in the video getting out underwater in a single gulp of air is not certain. Breathing is far less a problem in the salt air wafting across the beach. A less than stellar landing on the beach beats heck out of a great landing into the water.
As to landing in the trees....I always planned to arrive at the tree tops with all of the Rotor RPM you can gather....and use it to cushion your ROD into the trees. Picking the lowest, leafiest, softest limbed trees (without any stumps in the Landing Area) should prove beneficial. Having spent a lot of time over densely forested areas there was a lot of time that the only outcome was going to be a tree landing.
I disagree with the Tail first method....as I want the rotors to hold together and hopefully hang up on some strong limbs.....and prevent a very hard impact with the ground.
Fortunately I was only briefed on that method and never had an opportunity to try it out.
The Alaska thing was a tree landing of sorts....settled down in an Alder Patch which was more akin to a thicket than Trees and did so with bags or RPM which carried me over some real Trees and afforded a proper landing.
A very soft landing it was as the Alders cushioned the landing and it took some pruning to gain a safe clearance for the T/R Blades that fortuitously had no marks on them.
As always....Luck trumps skill every time. Being good is fine....being lucky is gooder!
As I see it...given the choice of sea water or a sandy beach.....I would endeavor to make a soft zero ground run landing to the beach. Even if it turned out all wrong and the helicopter rolls over....at least once the dust settles you should be able to crawl out, stand up, and dust yourself off since the helicopter is not strapped to your hind end as it sinks to the bottom of the sea. Even with open doors as seen in the video getting out underwater in a single gulp of air is not certain. Breathing is far less a problem in the salt air wafting across the beach. A less than stellar landing on the beach beats heck out of a great landing into the water.
As to landing in the trees....I always planned to arrive at the tree tops with all of the Rotor RPM you can gather....and use it to cushion your ROD into the trees. Picking the lowest, leafiest, softest limbed trees (without any stumps in the Landing Area) should prove beneficial. Having spent a lot of time over densely forested areas there was a lot of time that the only outcome was going to be a tree landing.
I disagree with the Tail first method....as I want the rotors to hold together and hopefully hang up on some strong limbs.....and prevent a very hard impact with the ground.
Fortunately I was only briefed on that method and never had an opportunity to try it out.
The Alaska thing was a tree landing of sorts....settled down in an Alder Patch which was more akin to a thicket than Trees and did so with bags or RPM which carried me over some real Trees and afforded a proper landing.
A very soft landing it was as the Alders cushioned the landing and it took some pruning to gain a safe clearance for the T/R Blades that fortuitously had no marks on them.
As always....Luck trumps skill every time. Being good is fine....being lucky is gooder!
Joined: Sep 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
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From: Canada
RE Tree Landings
First week on course
Scientifically minded student asks instructor:
”If the engine fails over a boreal forest do we aim for coniferous or deciduous trees?”
Grizzled, startled instructor with 1000s of hours of bush flying fixes him with an icy stare, holds hand out at knee level and barks: “LITTLE ONES!”
The student was call sign “Deciduous” for evermore.
As an aside I met a fellow who had a engine resign over the ocean in a front doors off 500 on skids. He said he didn’t even have time to kick the darn thing before it disappeared into the murky depths never to be seen again.
He and the front seat pax got out immediately but it took a long time for the 2 back seaters to pop to the surface. Fortunately an alert fishing boat rescued them all from the very cold water in minutes.
First week on course
Scientifically minded student asks instructor:
”If the engine fails over a boreal forest do we aim for coniferous or deciduous trees?”
Grizzled, startled instructor with 1000s of hours of bush flying fixes him with an icy stare, holds hand out at knee level and barks: “LITTLE ONES!”
The student was call sign “Deciduous” for evermore.
As an aside I met a fellow who had a engine resign over the ocean in a front doors off 500 on skids. He said he didn’t even have time to kick the darn thing before it disappeared into the murky depths never to be seen again.
He and the front seat pax got out immediately but it took a long time for the 2 back seaters to pop to the surface. Fortunately an alert fishing boat rescued them all from the very cold water in minutes.
Avoid imitations
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
As always....Luck trumps skill every time. Being good is fine....being lucky is gooder!
Joined: Mar 2005
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 6,562
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From: Aus
As always....Luck trumps skill every time. Being good is fine....being lucky is gooder!
Never had an actual engine fail on me in 48 years