NPAS News 2024
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Unless you’re *up to no good* you can take it as read that the police pilots are definitely not using your garden lights for navigation!
Police helicopter pilots (who aren’t police officers in U.K.) certainly don’t misuse the helicopter for their own purposes; bear in mind that everything they do is on record. But they are allowed to land where ever they need to in order to get their job done.
*Maybe you have a neighbour who is..
Police helicopter pilots (who aren’t police officers in U.K.) certainly don’t misuse the helicopter for their own purposes; bear in mind that everything they do is on record. But they are allowed to land where ever they need to in order to get their job done.
*Maybe you have a neighbour who is..
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,931
Likes: 142
From: Warrington, UK
I attended a bit of a get together with some old NPAS mates recently and a few things came out in conversation, which may or may not be known.
Instrument Ratings for pilots have been binned as there is no requirement for them. As was told when they were introduced.
Civilian TFOs have been binned as well, as they didn't really work as they didn't have a Police mindset. Again that was foretold when they were introduced.
The “honeymoon” period with drones and the Police is coming to an end as Forces realise that yes, drones can be useful, but there are somethings that only a helicopter can do. It’s fine to be able to search the gardens in a street, but if attention suddenly switches to an area two or there streets away, it takes too long to get the drone back, pack up, move to the new location and set up again.
West Yorks have been told that no one else wants to take on the running of NPAS, and anyway it would cost too much to change, so you’re stuck with it.
One of the reasons for NPAS in the first place was “borderless tasking”. Helicopters would no longer be “confined” to their Force areas but would be tasked wherever they were required. However, Forces were complaining that they were paying for a service that they weren’t getting because aircraft were miles away in another area.
So NPAS Bases/aircraft are now assigned to Regions and don’t leave them unless really necessary. The wheel slowly turns.
NPAS have the fleet leader of 135s in terms of hours: around 20,000, and the favourite among the troops for the fleet replacement is the 135T3. It’s proven, reliable and does the job.
Instrument Ratings for pilots have been binned as there is no requirement for them. As was told when they were introduced.
Civilian TFOs have been binned as well, as they didn't really work as they didn't have a Police mindset. Again that was foretold when they were introduced.
The “honeymoon” period with drones and the Police is coming to an end as Forces realise that yes, drones can be useful, but there are somethings that only a helicopter can do. It’s fine to be able to search the gardens in a street, but if attention suddenly switches to an area two or there streets away, it takes too long to get the drone back, pack up, move to the new location and set up again.
West Yorks have been told that no one else wants to take on the running of NPAS, and anyway it would cost too much to change, so you’re stuck with it.
One of the reasons for NPAS in the first place was “borderless tasking”. Helicopters would no longer be “confined” to their Force areas but would be tasked wherever they were required. However, Forces were complaining that they were paying for a service that they weren’t getting because aircraft were miles away in another area.
So NPAS Bases/aircraft are now assigned to Regions and don’t leave them unless really necessary. The wheel slowly turns.
NPAS have the fleet leader of 135s in terms of hours: around 20,000, and the favourite among the troops for the fleet replacement is the 135T3. It’s proven, reliable and does the job.
Joined: Apr 2024
Posts: 46
Likes: 12
From: Wantage
I attended a bit of a get together with some old NPAS mates recently and a few things came out in conversation, which may or may not be known.
Instrument Ratings for pilots have been binned as there is no requirement for them. As was told when they were introduced.
Civilian TFOs have been binned as well, as they didn't really work as they didn't have a Police mindset. Again that was foretold when they were introduced.
The “honeymoon” period with drones and the Police is coming to an end as Forces realise that yes, drones can be useful, but there are somethings that only a helicopter can do. It’s fine to be able to search the gardens in a street, but if attention suddenly switches to an area two or there streets away, it takes too long to get the drone back, pack up, move to the new location and set up again.
West Yorks have been told that no one else wants to take on the running of NPAS, and anyway it would cost too much to change, so you’re stuck with it.
One of the reasons for NPAS in the first place was “borderless tasking”. Helicopters would no longer be “confined” to their Force areas but would be tasked wherever they were required. However, Forces were complaining that they were paying for a service that they weren’t getting because aircraft were miles away in another area.
So NPAS Bases/aircraft are now assigned to Regions and don’t leave them unless really necessary. The wheel slowly turns.
NPAS have the fleet leader of 135s in terms of hours: around 20,000, and the favourite among the troops for the fleet replacement is the 135T3. It’s proven, reliable and does the job.
Instrument Ratings for pilots have been binned as there is no requirement for them. As was told when they were introduced.
Civilian TFOs have been binned as well, as they didn't really work as they didn't have a Police mindset. Again that was foretold when they were introduced.
The “honeymoon” period with drones and the Police is coming to an end as Forces realise that yes, drones can be useful, but there are somethings that only a helicopter can do. It’s fine to be able to search the gardens in a street, but if attention suddenly switches to an area two or there streets away, it takes too long to get the drone back, pack up, move to the new location and set up again.
West Yorks have been told that no one else wants to take on the running of NPAS, and anyway it would cost too much to change, so you’re stuck with it.
One of the reasons for NPAS in the first place was “borderless tasking”. Helicopters would no longer be “confined” to their Force areas but would be tasked wherever they were required. However, Forces were complaining that they were paying for a service that they weren’t getting because aircraft were miles away in another area.
So NPAS Bases/aircraft are now assigned to Regions and don’t leave them unless really necessary. The wheel slowly turns.
NPAS have the fleet leader of 135s in terms of hours: around 20,000, and the favourite among the troops for the fleet replacement is the 135T3. It’s proven, reliable and does the job.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,187
Likes: 16
From: Waltham Abbey, Essex, UK
Serviceability is not good but I guess not to many bits are original on helicopters of their age!
The main problem is access to spares. Since they [supposedly] "saved money" by cancelling the PBH they are at the back of an often very long queue for bits.
If ever they get around to order some T3s they will probably never replace the whole fleet before the yet to be seen replacements are at 10,000 hours!
Will they ever buy T3s? The T4/P4 must be around the corner.....
The main problem is access to spares. Since they [supposedly] "saved money" by cancelling the PBH they are at the back of an often very long queue for bits.
If ever they get around to order some T3s they will probably never replace the whole fleet before the yet to be seen replacements are at 10,000 hours!
Will they ever buy T3s? The T4/P4 must be around the corner.....
Joined: Feb 2006
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
Posts: 36,137
Likes: 5,738
From: Falling off the end of the thread
Civilian TFOs have been binned as well, as they didn't really work as they didn't have a Police mindset. Again that was foretold when they were introduced.
As for NPAS, they have gone. The building was their only connection with the airfield and they now have moved to another at East Midlands, a location that was strangely a location they dreamed of in 2012 when they started...... In view of the very tenuous links they have with their fixed wing (shall we keep it, shall we not) and the lacklustre performance in terms of hours flown I doubt they will even have a fixed wing by the time DSA reopens for business in a few years time
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 14
Likes: 2
From: Guildford
Serviceability is not good but I guess not to many bits are original on helicopters of their age!
The main problem is access to spares. Since they [supposedly] "saved money" by cancelling the PBH they are at the back of an often very long queue for bits.
If ever they get around to order some T3s they will probably never replace the whole fleet before the yet to be seen replacements are at 10,000 hours!
Will they ever buy T3s? The T4/P4 must be around the corner.....
The main problem is access to spares. Since they [supposedly] "saved money" by cancelling the PBH they are at the back of an often very long queue for bits.
If ever they get around to order some T3s they will probably never replace the whole fleet before the yet to be seen replacements are at 10,000 hours!
Will they ever buy T3s? The T4/P4 must be around the corner.....
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 604
Likes: 12
From: UK
roblawson91 Images of the "P4/T4" were first published 16 months ago here . Other changes include T tail (thus no stabilizer on the boom), taller cabin for more cabin headroom, which vicariously gives greater visibility for pilots and taller clam-shell doors. And lots more composites being used...
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,931
Likes: 142
From: Warrington, UK
Quote:
Civilian TFOs have been binned as well, as they didn't really work as they didn't have a Police mindset. Again that was foretold when they were introduced.
Not totally true.
Civilian TFOs have been binned as well, as they didn't really work as they didn't have a Police mindset. Again that was foretold when they were introduced.
Not totally true.
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 20
From: I have no idea but the view's great.
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,931
Likes: 142
From: Warrington, UK
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 20
From: I have no idea but the view's great.
Well, I started in 2001 and did it for twelve years. My colleague who started at the same time did considerably longer and we were not the first.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 18
Likes: 2
From: East Angular
It is very easy to tar everyone with the same brush and to make broad brush statements especially when they suit your own narrative. I had the honour for over 7 years to serve as DUEO on a police air support unit. This was in the days of proper police air support. We had 2 civilian air observers (both of whom predated me on the unit )and they were both as good, and in some cases better, than warranted police officers. Yes they had to learn about the law and on the very rare occasions that we landed on were not able to perform the ceremony of the laying on of hands but they both did an excellent job.
Just because you had a warrant card did not make you a good air observer, we were a crew and we all complimented each other.
It is not good to compare police air support of our day with that of today, it is two totally different eras. For those of us old gits lets just remember the good times!
Just because you had a warrant card did not make you a good air observer, we were a crew and we all complimented each other.
It is not good to compare police air support of our day with that of today, it is two totally different eras. For those of us old gits lets just remember the good times!
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
It is not good to compare police air support of our day with that of today, it is two totally different eras. For those of us old gits lets just remember the good times!
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 20
From: I have no idea but the view's great.
I can't believe I missed a chance to plug the book, let's put that right.
Above the Law
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,931
Likes: 142
From: Warrington, UK
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,931
Likes: 142
From: Warrington, UK
I can't believe this Topic has been quiet since March.
Anyway, a bit late this year, but here are the stats for NPAS for the year 2024-25.Costs have risen slightly, as you would expect and as usual I’ve expressed what Forces pay as the cost per Actioned Call(which is not how NPAS calculate their charges) as it makes it easier to see what Forces are paying for. The thing that stands out is the fact that Norfolk are paying the equivalent of £25,707 per Call. Compare this with Gwent’s £1630 per Call.
I queried this with NPAS and received the following:
It seems odd that a Force should agree to pay an extra £120,547, so I asked how do they benefit from paying extra. I’m still waiting for that reply.
Rotary Actioned Calls are up slightly, the fixed wing have been busy this year with an increase of 212 on last year(495).
Flying hours are still reducing with majority of Bases flying less with Birmingham considerable so, but with increased FW hours matching their increased tasking.
Anyway, a bit late this year, but here are the stats for NPAS for the year 2024-25.Costs have risen slightly, as you would expect and as usual I’ve expressed what Forces pay as the cost per Actioned Call(which is not how NPAS calculate their charges) as it makes it easier to see what Forces are paying for. The thing that stands out is the fact that Norfolk are paying the equivalent of £25,707 per Call. Compare this with Gwent’s £1630 per Call.
I queried this with NPAS and received the following:
The Direct Cost Charging Model calculated Norfolk's contribution to be £ 162,175 per annum as part of the Eastern Region, this is done by allocating Fixed, variable and overhead costs using different methods by Region. These regional costs are then allocated to Forces using the Force User Requirement. The Direct Cost Charging Model allows Forces within a region to change the allocations within the region if they wish. The six Forces in the Eastern region agreed their own allocations, including the £ 282,722 for Norfolk.
Rotary Actioned Calls are up slightly, the fixed wing have been busy this year with an increase of 212 on last year(495).
Flying hours are still reducing with majority of Bases flying less with Birmingham considerable so, but with increased FW hours matching their increased tasking.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,018
Likes: 73
From: Pewsey, UK
