USMC CH-53E Missing - 6 Feb 24
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USMC CH-53E Missing - 6 Feb 24
Statement from 3rd MAW
"The U.S. Marine Corps is searching for five U.S. Marines assigned to Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 361, Marine Aircraft Group 16, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing. The Marines were flying a CH-53E Super Stallion helicopter from Creech Air Force Base to Marine Corps Air Station Miramar on Feb. 6, 2024, when the aircraft was reported overdue. The 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing is coordinating search and rescue efforts with the San Diego County Sheriff’s Department and the Civil Air Patrol. The most up-to-date information will be released as it becomes available."
The search is now being concentrated in the Laguna Mountains, CA
"The U.S. Marine Corps is searching for five U.S. Marines assigned to Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 361, Marine Aircraft Group 16, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing. The Marines were flying a CH-53E Super Stallion helicopter from Creech Air Force Base to Marine Corps Air Station Miramar on Feb. 6, 2024, when the aircraft was reported overdue. The 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing is coordinating search and rescue efforts with the San Diego County Sheriff’s Department and the Civil Air Patrol. The most up-to-date information will be released as it becomes available."
The search is now being concentrated in the Laguna Mountains, CA
Update:
The aircraft was located by civil authorities in Pine Valley, California at 0908 PST 07 February 2024. Search and rescue operations are ongoing co-ordinated by 3 MAW Ops Command Center 'using ground and aviation assets to locate the crew'.
The aircraft was located by civil authorities in Pine Valley, California at 0908 PST 07 February 2024. Search and rescue operations are ongoing co-ordinated by 3 MAW Ops Command Center 'using ground and aviation assets to locate the crew'.
Salute!
Maybe Wolf could contribute here, as I thot the larest H-53 series had great nav gear and radar for flying in poor weather.
Although he flew ASW, best I recall, we also have another rotorhead or two that might comment. One of which flew the monster in 'nam same time as me.
My thots are a mechanical problem, then running outta a good place to set down. OTOH cannor rule out cfit.
Gums sends...
Maybe Wolf could contribute here, as I thot the larest H-53 series had great nav gear and radar for flying in poor weather.
Although he flew ASW, best I recall, we also have another rotorhead or two that might comment. One of which flew the monster in 'nam same time as me.
My thots are a mechanical problem, then running outta a good place to set down. OTOH cannor rule out cfit.
Gums sends...
Received this from a friend in TX earlier today-was a local Fox News source:
“First responders are continuing to search for the aircrew, according to the U.S. Marine Corps.
"The U.S. Marine Corps is searching for five U.S. Marines assigned to Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 361, Marine Aircraft Group 16, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing," Marine Corps Air Station Miramar said in a statement Thursday. "The Marines were flying a CH-53E Super Stallion helicopter from Creech Air Force Base to Marine Corps Air Station Miramar on Feb. 6, 2024, when the aircraft was reported overdue.”
The original Es had a pretty basic cockpit/nav setup. No idea if they have been upgraded.
“First responders are continuing to search for the aircrew, according to the U.S. Marine Corps.
"The U.S. Marine Corps is searching for five U.S. Marines assigned to Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 361, Marine Aircraft Group 16, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing," Marine Corps Air Station Miramar said in a statement Thursday. "The Marines were flying a CH-53E Super Stallion helicopter from Creech Air Force Base to Marine Corps Air Station Miramar on Feb. 6, 2024, when the aircraft was reported overdue.”
The original Es had a pretty basic cockpit/nav setup. No idea if they have been upgraded.
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Photo: "The Mission Data Extender (MDE) is a fully integrated, hard-mounted commercial off-the-shelf tablet which functions as a primary mission display in the CH-53E Super Stallion helicopter cockpit." https://www.navair.navy.mil/sites/g/...lic/tablet.jpg
John Dixson can tell you better than I can about details. Based on his experience he's substantially more familiar with the CH-53E than I.
The 53E has blade anti ice, and has standard IFR capability. (Yes, it appears to still have steam gages).(I have never seen the K's cockpit, but I suspect it's glass).
The 53E should be able to handle bad weather.
My thots are a mechanical problem, then running outta a good place to set down. OTOH cannor rule out cfit. .
Not as familiar with the 53E s you might think, LW-the 53E started test flights in early 74 and the UTTAS ( UH-60 ) kicked off in the Fall of that year and absorbed all of my time. I just attempted to phone the retired 53E Project Test Pilot unsuccessfully but in my recollection, the E didn’t have blade de-ice to start with and I cannot recollect a subsequent blade de-ice redesign/flight test qualification afterwards. Haven’t heard anything about blade de-ice testing on the 53K either, but I’ll cross-check on that.. They both have engine and inlet anti-ice systems of course.
Condolences and prayers for the families of the HMH-361 crew.
Condolences and prayers for the families of the HMH-361 crew.
Last edited by JohnDixson; 8th Feb 2024 at 13:28.
The H-53/SK65 De-Ice
The H-53/SK-65 aircraft were not equipped with main or tail rotor de-ice. The engine engine air particle separators (EAPS) negates any effectiveness of engine de-ice.
Salute!
Yeah, Jack, those "filters" would seem to ice up themselves, and as Lonewolf pointed out, just the mountains present conditions that are a problem. I don't think they were very high but escorting a wounded Jolly outta N Vee he had trouble with a ridge ahead as he was on one good engine, and reduced power on the other having extinguished the fire. Most folks don't realize that much of VietNam is not miles and miles of flooded rice paddies, but beautiful mountains, valleys and rivers that resemble those in Arkansas, north Georgia, etc.
It's just that I would have thot they would have some of the stuff that our Pave Low birds had 30 years ago. And I don't mind the steam gauges too much.
RIP.
Gums sends...
Yeah, Jack, those "filters" would seem to ice up themselves, and as Lonewolf pointed out, just the mountains present conditions that are a problem. I don't think they were very high but escorting a wounded Jolly outta N Vee he had trouble with a ridge ahead as he was on one good engine, and reduced power on the other having extinguished the fire. Most folks don't realize that much of VietNam is not miles and miles of flooded rice paddies, but beautiful mountains, valleys and rivers that resemble those in Arkansas, north Georgia, etc.
It's just that I would have thot they would have some of the stuff that our Pave Low birds had 30 years ago. And I don't mind the steam gauges too much.
RIP.
Gums sends...
Last edited by gums; 8th Feb 2024 at 13:44. Reason: added verbiage
It may be worth noting that at the time of last contact, around 1130pm Tuesday night the area was being hit by a "river storm" bringing heavy wind, rain and snow at higher elevations, up to 8 inches of driving snow around the incident site near Pine Valley. Night in heavy snow, wind, terrain and likely on goggles. Can't imagine Miramar crews getting much snow flying experience.
Bless the families.
Bless the families.
Sandie, the other aspect that came to mind was re to Lone Wolf’s observation that the E is an IFR capable ship flying qualities-wise is fine. But as you are intimating ( possibly ) if they could not scud-run, transitioning to an IFR clearance might bring rotor icing into consideration?
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Someone operated a distress beacon, or do they carry automatic ones? RIP guys.
https://www.npr.org/2024/02/07/12298...ound-san-diego
The last known contact with the helicopter was at about 11:30 p.m. Tuesday, Mike Cornette of the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection told CBS 8 news. That location was based on a "ping" reported to a Cal Fire dispatch center.
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EDIT: Just talked to Gunny B.
He was crew chief on E's until about 2015. 22 years in the USMC. From his memory:
53D's didn't have de-ice.
53E's had them on the main rotor blades (his service goes back to the 90's), but (and this struck me as odd) initially they didn't have them on the tail blades.
While he was in, however, there was an airframes change that added De-Ice to the tail rotor blades.
I wonder if the original 53E's didn't have it, and a later AFC added that.
It may be that someone at NAVAIR decided that since the Seahawks had it, the 53e's should too.
No idea, I am guessing there.
The system was also, in Gunny's time, plagued with problems similar to what I recall being the issues in Seahawk. They often spot tied the circuit breakers out (off) to keep the electrons from doing bad things to the blades / heating blankets / wiring harnesses, etc.
He also recalled a near miss where a 53E, West Coast, apparently flew into icing, iced up, and got into some serious controllability problems.
Descent out of icing / clouds (and a little luck, apparently) got them to better air and they got home...he wasn't on that crew, but it was his wing where it happened.
Sandie, the other aspect that came to mind was re to Lone Wolf’s observation that the E is an IFR capable ship flying qualities-wise is fine. But as you are intimating ( possibly ) if they could not scud-run, transitioning to an IFR clearance might bring rotor icing into consideration?
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 8th Feb 2024 at 16:45.
Civilian here, some questions on why it took a while to find.
No ADSB? Thought it was mandatory around San Diego. No ELT? No Sat tracking (everything I fly corporate or commercial has sat tracking)? Even an iPad with Foreflight would have given them plenty of warning they were about to eat dirt, maybe not sanctioned but who wouldn't throw one in their bag?
Flown IFR lots in winter, icing is pretty rare - tips run warm, and usually you climb out of rain, through a sleet layer into snow. Nothing sticking to the blades.
Robust aircraft, trained crew, I'm a little surprised at the discussion on weather that I wouldn't have thought would be a factor.
No ADSB? Thought it was mandatory around San Diego. No ELT? No Sat tracking (everything I fly corporate or commercial has sat tracking)? Even an iPad with Foreflight would have given them plenty of warning they were about to eat dirt, maybe not sanctioned but who wouldn't throw one in their bag?
Flown IFR lots in winter, icing is pretty rare - tips run warm, and usually you climb out of rain, through a sleet layer into snow. Nothing sticking to the blades.
Robust aircraft, trained crew, I'm a little surprised at the discussion on weather that I wouldn't have thought would be a factor.
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07 Feb 2024: https://aviationweek.com/defense-spa...alifornia-five
"...Crews found the aircraft near the town of Pine Valley, California, near where it went missing, according to its ADS-B track...."
"...Crews found the aircraft near the town of Pine Valley, California, near where it went missing, according to its ADS-B track...."
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The crash happened In the mountains during a snow storm.
From the weather descriptions available, about 8 inches of snow fell during that timeframe.
I had the chance to fly in icing conditions a couple of decades ago, in a Blackhawk, but the blade de-ice worked.
Interestingly, when we landed we were reminded that the horizontal stab does not have de-ice blankets. There was still a nice thick layer of snow / ice on the horizontal stab when we did our post flght.
I find it odd that you think that ice will not accumulate on a rotor blade. (If you don't think that, sorry, that's how it came off in your post).
From the weather descriptions available, about 8 inches of snow fell during that timeframe.
Flown IFR lots in winter, icing is pretty rare - tips run warm, and usually you climb out of rain, through a sleet layer into snow. Nothing sticking to the blades.
Interestingly, when we landed we were reminded that the horizontal stab does not have de-ice blankets. There was still a nice thick layer of snow / ice on the horizontal stab when we did our post flght.
I find it odd that you think that ice will not accumulate on a rotor blade. (If you don't think that, sorry, that's how it came off in your post).
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