Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

Broward County accident...

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Broward County accident...

Old 28th Aug 2023, 21:01
  #21 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 702
Received 18 Likes on 14 Posts
This appears to be the aircraft. It also had a littler kit so no baggage compartment to deal with. Fire/smoke seem to be coming from the bottom aft corner of the engine deck. And given the angle of deck this is where any fluids would be gathering at. It also looks like the tailboom failed aft of the mount flange where the structure is mainly carbon layers and nomex core. Something not very fire proof or excessive heat resistant. Hopefully all the data modules survived the post fire and will give a picture of what transpired so quickly.
wrench1 is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2023, 21:39
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: On the big blue planet
Posts: 1,023
Received 21 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by wrench1
Fire/smoke seem to be coming from the bottom aft corner of the engine deck.
There is another video which shows the starboard side and there is also visible fire at or behind the engine bay. There is a titanium firewall between and aft of both engines. I don't think that <2min of flighttime is enough to break these walls with fire.

skadi
skadi is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2023, 21:48
  #23 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 702
Received 18 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by skadi
There is another video which shows the starboard side and there is also visible fire at or behind the engine bay. There is a titanium firewall between and aft of both engines. I don't think that <2min of flighttime is enough to break these walls with fire.
Here's a different video which the #1 side much more involved. And if fuel/oil is leaking past the firewalls or worse out the exhaust then not much to stop it. Here is also a recent press conference. They knew they had fire and I believe blew the bottle. Unfortunately a paramedic died.




Last edited by wrench1; 28th Aug 2023 at 22:17.
wrench1 is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2023, 22:02
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: On the big blue planet
Posts: 1,023
Received 21 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by wrench1
Unfortunately the pilot died.
According to the sheriffs press conference it was one of the flight nurses.

skadi
skadi is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2023, 22:17
  #25 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 702
Received 18 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by skadi
According to the sheriffs press conference it was one of the flight nurses.

skadi
You're right. My bad. Corrected.
wrench1 is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2023, 22:18
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: east ESSEX
Posts: 4,504
Received 39 Likes on 28 Posts
Could it be a rotor-brake fire..?
sycamore is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 28th Aug 2023, 22:46
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: South West
Posts: 277
Received 13 Likes on 11 Posts
The Arrius engine had a service bulletin a while back for missing dampers on the power turbine. The dampers stop vibration of the blades in the turbine wheel. In the incident that precipitated the service bulletin, there was an uncontained release of turbine blades (on the ground in that case). That type of engine failure could lead to a fire.

There have also been 2 previous in flight uncontained engine failures on EC135 but both were on P1 variants due to inadvertant entry into manual mode and subsequent overspeeds. That particular failure mode is not possible on the T1.
gipsymagpie is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2023, 23:00
  #28 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 702
Received 18 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by sycamore
Could it be a rotor-brake fire..?
The rotorbrake is mounted on the xsmn and in front of the engines and its no more powerful than a BO105 brake.
wrench1 is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2023, 23:19
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: After all, whatís more important than proving to someone on the internet that theyíre wrong? - Manson
Posts: 1,796
Received 41 Likes on 28 Posts
Oil fires are a different thing. Fuel you can shut off and stop, oil not so much and it moves slowly and sticks to surfaces.

If you look at the flight track they got it turned around and heading back and the whole flight time was about 3 minutes.
RVDT is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2023, 23:32
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 113
Received 26 Likes on 16 Posts
Originally Posted by hepkat
Found the guy with zero multi-time.

Are you serious? What an aggressive comment, further more you seem to have opened you mouth and removed all doubt.

I agree with Bellringers comment, Uncontained fire is land immediately. Assuming he fired his suppression bottles. Itís possible the airport was the only option without endangering 3rd parties but I agree if thereís a place to set it down to do so.

Proximity to the airport can be a killer for any serious emergency. If on fire OEI and close to an airport, landing in a sports field vs a short flight to a runway is going to be very tempting.

Surely itís a miracle anyone survived not only inflight break up but also on fire with post crash fire. I hope the ones that didnít were unconscious.

Last edited by SLFMS; 29th Aug 2023 at 01:04.
SLFMS is online now  
The following users liked this post:
Old 29th Aug 2023, 00:22
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: California
Posts: 19
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by malabo
Food for thought when you're flying those IA crews around with the 212/412 tail boom full of propane and jugs of gas.
thats one of several reasons my crew(along with many around us at the time) never used the tailboom baggage compartment.

Will be interesting to see how much intrusion into the structure the initial impact made, for 2 injured and disoriented parties to exit the aircraft. Landing on the apartments might have absorbed some of the downward energy in a better manner than pancaking Into the concrete.
LTP90 is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2023, 00:47
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2023
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Canít post a picture showing the overhead map of where they crashed. There wasnít an option of performing an emergency landing without putting life/property at risk. I suspect he knew exactly how bad the fire was and was praying that it would hold up a couple more blocks to the airport. Iím guessing he was 2 miles away at most.
Gtep is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2023, 00:54
  #33 (permalink)  
"Just a pilot"
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Jefferson GA USA
Age: 74
Posts: 628
Received 7 Likes on 4 Posts
Proximity to the airport can be a killer for any serious emergency. If on fire OEI and close the an airport landing in a sports field vs a short flight to a runway is going to be very tempting.
Amen. It's really hard to take the decision to land short, damage the aircraft but survive. Sometimes survival is as much as you can hope for, sacrificing the airframe.
Devil 49 is offline  
The following 3 users liked this post by Devil 49:
Old 29th Aug 2023, 01:10
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 113
Received 26 Likes on 16 Posts
It will be interesting to read the Pilot transcript. Watching the video after the tail boom failed the initial descent seems fairly low and appears heís keeping the power on.
Once spinning you normally see guys dump the collective.
I think that potentially saved their lives and kept ROD to a survivable amount.
SLFMS is online now  
The following 2 users liked this post by SLFMS:
Old 29th Aug 2023, 01:18
  #35 (permalink)  

Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Alles Łber die platz
Posts: 4,677
Received 27 Likes on 18 Posts
Pic from Sky News site look as if fire is from Ďa particular panelísí location on the starboard side, close and accessible to tail boom connection point.
https://news.sky.com/story/two-kille...orida-12949832



Video from ABC News site shows fire to be from that specific area only; the flames also donít look like fuel to me. https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/fire-rescue-helicopter-crashes-florida-2-hospitalized/story?id=102617239

(Just saying what I see without assumption, despite many hours on type)


Last edited by SilsoeSid; 29th Aug 2023 at 09:34.
SilsoeSid is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2023, 01:46
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: EDLB
Posts: 312
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Looks like the fire is below the engine exhausts and below the engines.
EDLB is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2023, 01:46
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: CYQS
Age: 48
Posts: 328
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
[QUOTE=SilsoeSid;11493222]Pic from Sky News site look as if fire is from a particular panelled location on the starboard side, close to tail boom connection point. (Drivers will know where I mean)
https://news.sky.com/story/two-kille...orida-12949832

Video from ABC News site shows fire to be from that specific area only; the flames donít look like fuel to me.

It looks to be from the battery compartment or near. aft of the engine compartment...
Winnie is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 29th Aug 2023, 02:09
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2023
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by helithree
Could it be due to a medical oxygen cylinder explosion?
Tank exploding would cause serious harm to the individuals on boards.
Gtep is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2023, 03:18
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Age: 54
Posts: 448
Received 34 Likes on 23 Posts
Pretty sure that 135 had no fire bottles installed. I've flown 4 or 5 airframes and all of them had no bottles. Never liked the 135 because of this. They all had the fire PB's but alert/shutoff only. That aircraft spent most of its time out on the swamp looking for drunken sailors. Would have been hard to look back and see that fire glowing in the daytime.
Sir Korsky is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2023, 04:43
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Australia sometimes
Posts: 103
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
The 135 has a Fire Extinguisher system available as a supplemental kit option (FMS 9.2-9) ... the basic configuration has a Fire Warning system only. It will be interesting to see how this aircraft was configured. Anyone in the know?
Scattercat is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.