No more cost sharing flights?
Jelly
There is no legal standing in terms of operator . It is not against the law for a member of the public to hire an aircraft. It is not against the law for that same person to engage the services of a CPL. Public transport is where an entity offers aircraft, fuel and crew
There is no legal standing in terms of operator . It is not against the law for a member of the public to hire an aircraft. It is not against the law for that same person to engage the services of a CPL. Public transport is where an entity offers aircraft, fuel and crew
J
Jelly
There is no legal standing in terms of operator . It is not against the law for a member of the public to hire an aircraft. It is not against the law for that same person to engage the services of a CPL. Public transport is where an entity offers aircraft, fuel and crew
There is no legal standing in terms of operator . It is not against the law for a member of the public to hire an aircraft. It is not against the law for that same person to engage the services of a CPL. Public transport is where an entity offers aircraft, fuel and crew
You have to be careful that the person or pilot do not sell any spare seats on the aircraft to other third parties. That would now become cost-sharing.
You have to be careful that the person or pilot do not sell any spare seats on the aircraft to other third parties. That would now become cost-sharing.
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The registration of the helicopter also matters
I had a n Reg 600 and I went to ascot and wanting to have a drink I thought I would ask a examiner/instructor/cpl to take me , there was me and the Mrs and my freind and his wife 5 people
at ascot I was asked if I paid the pilot which I said no but I was going to ,the CAA man said paying the pilot was illegal as there was more than 4 in the helicopter so I said I won’t be paying him then
it took a year to sort out I even had to go to a solicitor to make a avidavit that I didn’t pay him
I had a n Reg 600 and I went to ascot and wanting to have a drink I thought I would ask a examiner/instructor/cpl to take me , there was me and the Mrs and my freind and his wife 5 people
at ascot I was asked if I paid the pilot which I said no but I was going to ,the CAA man said paying the pilot was illegal as there was more than 4 in the helicopter so I said I won’t be paying him then
it took a year to sort out I even had to go to a solicitor to make a avidavit that I didn’t pay him
Last edited by Helicopterdriverguy; 15th Aug 2023 at 11:16.
I do think CAA have a point. The principle of wingly is great but as always some people will exploit the grey area. Just looked and some one is charging £100 each for 2 pax in a C172 for a max of 1 hour flight. Are C172 really £300 an hour?
surely getting in touch with a stranger and asking them to fly you around is pretty much public transport. Uber of the skys?
surely getting in touch with a stranger and asking them to fly you around is pretty much public transport. Uber of the skys?
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I do think CAA have a point. The principle of wingly is great but as always some people will exploit the grey area. Just looked and some one is charging £100 each for 2 pax in a C172 for a max of 1 hour flight. Are C172 really £300 an hour?
surely getting in touch with a stranger and asking them to fly you around is pretty much public transport. Uber of the skys?
surely getting in touch with a stranger and asking them to fly you around is pretty much public transport. Uber of the skys?
As a PPL, you must cover an equal portion of the flight. I believe the poster is pointing out that the flight wouldn’t cost £300 if split equally and therefore some is making money.
LZ
LZ
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Avoid imitations
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My understanding, in practical terms, is that if a flight is going to take place and will be flown from an advertised departure point to an advertised destination and others go along and pay a share of the actual operating costs, but no more, that is cost sharing.
If a flight or flights are advertised with no defined departure place or destination but the pilot agrees to take someone to a destination of their choice, that immediately falls outside the terms of cost sharing and encroaches into public transport, irrespective of who pays what.
Any form of profit being made over and above the direct cost of any flight, or any money taken by a third party/broker also falls outside cost sharing.
If a flight or flights are advertised with no defined departure place or destination but the pilot agrees to take someone to a destination of their choice, that immediately falls outside the terms of cost sharing and encroaches into public transport, irrespective of who pays what.
Any form of profit being made over and above the direct cost of any flight, or any money taken by a third party/broker also falls outside cost sharing.
Nothing about equal
Thread Starter
https://www.caa.co.uk/general-aviati...aring-flights/
Cost sharing flights are flights shared by private individuals. The 'cost-shared' part is in reference to the costs of the specific flight which can be shared only between the pilot and others onboard the aircraft. These costs are the 'direct costs' which are the costs directly incurred in relation to a specific flight (e.g. fuel, airfield charges, rental fee for an aircraft). There can be no element of profit for the pilot as these flights are not commercial, and if profit is suspected then the flight might be operating outside of the regulations and therefore be illegal. The pilot must pay a contribution to these direct costs.
Direct costs mean the costs directly incurred in relation to a flight (e.g. fuel, airfield charges, rental fee for an aircraft). There can be no element of profit.
Annual costs cannot be included in the cost sharing. These are the cost of keeping, maintaining, insuring and operating the aircraft over a period of one calendar year. There can be no element of profit.We want to strengthen current regulations in the following ways:
Cost sharing flights are flights shared by private individuals. The 'cost-shared' part is in reference to the costs of the specific flight which can be shared only between the pilot and others onboard the aircraft. These costs are the 'direct costs' which are the costs directly incurred in relation to a specific flight (e.g. fuel, airfield charges, rental fee for an aircraft). There can be no element of profit for the pilot as these flights are not commercial, and if profit is suspected then the flight might be operating outside of the regulations and therefore be illegal. The pilot must pay a contribution to these direct costs.
Direct costs mean the costs directly incurred in relation to a flight (e.g. fuel, airfield charges, rental fee for an aircraft). There can be no element of profit.
Annual costs cannot be included in the cost sharing. These are the cost of keeping, maintaining, insuring and operating the aircraft over a period of one calendar year. There can be no element of profit.We want to strengthen current regulations in the following ways:
- We want to improve the definition of the direct costs which can be shared on flights to provide clarity for both pilot and passengers.
- We want to make it mandatory that all participants pay an equal share in the costs of a flight – including the pilot. However, the pilot can choose to pay more than their equal share if they wish.
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The pilot has to make a contribution, that could be in the form of my contribution is my skill as a pilot, doesnt say anything about monies !!!!!! ( the implication may have been financial but it doesnt say that , probably lost in translation from EASA )
This will be interesting given the frequency of these type of flights advertised on social media between Northern Ireland and Scotland/Northern England. I believe various types, 44-206-350 have been used with a PPL with an accident history backed by someone previously convicted by the CAA for illegal CAT.
Thread Starter
Cost-sharing worked fine for years, within the confines of a flying school, local club etc
then Wingly came along and now it's been ruined by people advertising flights that look like Commercial Air Transport flights and almost cost the same!
eg..
"cost sharing", £197 per person, for a London trip
https://www.wingly.io/en/flights/2056457
Commercial Air Transport: £167 per person!
https://www.heliair.com/store/london...er-tour-for-3/
This is why the CAA have got involved
then Wingly came along and now it's been ruined by people advertising flights that look like Commercial Air Transport flights and almost cost the same!
eg..
"cost sharing", £197 per person, for a London trip
https://www.wingly.io/en/flights/2056457
Commercial Air Transport: £167 per person!
https://www.heliair.com/store/london...er-tour-for-3/
This is why the CAA have got involved
Last edited by hargreaves99; 2nd Sep 2023 at 21:23.
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