'Best' helicopter to learn to fly in....
The following 3 users liked this post by hargreaves99:
Never pay up front to any flight school, regardless of country. If you do then they no longer have any incentive to train you because they already have your money. There are tons of nightmare stories from people who did that and were screwed.
The following users liked this post:
The question which is the best helicopter to learn in, i would suggest from a pure view then Hu 269 takes a lot of beating. Easy to fly very forgiving and unlike most R22 schools will do engine off landings to the ground . From an instructors point of view you can let the student really loose it before you have to regain it.
The following 5 users liked this post by Hughes500:
The "best" is the one being maintained by the same outfit teaching you. Why??...because when it is pissing down with rain and blowing a gale outside you, the Pilot Operating Handbook (POH) and a warm mug of coffee will at least get to sit for several comfortable, undisturbed and free hours in the cockpit, in the hangar, running through those important checklists and all your procedures until you are memory perfect. Better than that...you will also get to quiz the mechanics. A smart pilot always sticks close to those who really know where to look for that hydraulic leak on preflight inspection, what fire detector sensor usually gives the false alarm and why, and which instructor is known in the repair hangar to be the firm's biggest liability. Best advice is to learn in something small, like an R22; plentiful, thus cheapest, and lots of maintenance going on. Later you will move onto turbine engines and much more complex systems, for that is all larger helicopters are. Again, then the lads and lasses in the maintenance shed will be your greatest teachers. Above all, start small and build up. It worked for me. And while we are on the subject, always remember:...Know safety, no pain. No safety, know pain.
The following 3 users liked this post by Dog on Cat3:
,...and always just pay for each lesson one at a time. As you never know when your school is going to "suddenly" go out of business.
and always just pay for each lesson one at a time. As you never know when your school is going to "suddenly" go out of business
What was more galling was on the day they collapsed they were still cashing the cheques of those who had made lump sum payments for the entire course but were yet to begin.
Continuity is one of the most vital aspects of learning to fly so doing one or two lessons a month will find you constantly relearning, forgetting and relearning.
Take your lessons a week at a time with several hours each week and without too much of a break between weeks of flying.
This means (as already suggested) having the money readily available ie saved up or loan arranged.
The aviation environment can be an alien one if you have little or no experience of it and immersing yourself in that environment is key to good progress.
There is a lot to learn both in terms of ground study and building muscle memory and confidence - sporadic flying doesn't help that at all.
As suggested by others, if you want in the future to take friends and family flying, go for the R44 so by the time you get to do that you are comfortable and knowledgeable about the machine - a quick type conversion won't do that for you.
Once you are qualified, make sure you fly regularly as skill fade is real - even after 40 years and 10,000 hours I know the difference between flying regularly and not - the basics are there but the finesse (and therefore spare capacity) fade quickly.
Good luck
Take your lessons a week at a time with several hours each week and without too much of a break between weeks of flying.
This means (as already suggested) having the money readily available ie saved up or loan arranged.
The aviation environment can be an alien one if you have little or no experience of it and immersing yourself in that environment is key to good progress.
There is a lot to learn both in terms of ground study and building muscle memory and confidence - sporadic flying doesn't help that at all.
As suggested by others, if you want in the future to take friends and family flying, go for the R44 so by the time you get to do that you are comfortable and knowledgeable about the machine - a quick type conversion won't do that for you.
Once you are qualified, make sure you fly regularly as skill fade is real - even after 40 years and 10,000 hours I know the difference between flying regularly and not - the basics are there but the finesse (and therefore spare capacity) fade quickly.
Good luck
The following 3 users liked this post by [email protected]:
The following users liked this post:
Surely you cant gain a PPL without having done dozens of them?
The FAA don't do them at all for PPL or CPL. Apparently the risk of mishap training for one far outweighs the risk of actually having one, and the safest course of action is to train people to get it to a survivable point rather than ground contact.
What fresh solo student is going to pull off a real one gracefully in a 22?
I started on a 22, the Cabri wasn't an option then and still isn't, because it is gutless and doesn't operate at anything resembling higher DA.
A 22 is one uncomfortable place to train if you aren't short but not that unpleasant with the doors off on a warm day.
I rapidly moved on to a 44 instead, partially because the 22's kept breaking or crashing.
The running cost of an 22 is now so much higher due to insurance that a 44 (Raven or Cadet) isn't much more per hour and it is a (relatively) safer place to be.
When you are able, run away as fast as possible from a piston to a decent helicopter and never look back
Ultimately the best aircraft for training is the one you can get to use regularly and is properly maintained.
Moderator
Don't pay in advance. Always pay promptly after your lesson. Have some money saved up in YOUR bank account to keep you training consistently. A school you want to be doing good business with does not need money up front. I tried both the R22, and the SW300. I preferred the SW300, and that's what I trained in. With that done, transition to an MD500 was very easy, and the type endorsement was only a couple of hours. As others have mentioned, full on autorotations were not a part of my training at all. I was trained to get close to the ground, from which a power off landing would likely be successful, while reducing training risk.
I'm assuming you haven't flown one since the 160shp update, because it isn't 'gutless' (it may have previously felt that way at lower DA's being limited to 145shp). In it's current form a Cabri G2 does great for training and landing 2 POB up to 6500'+ depending on the ISA deviation
I'm assuming you haven't flown one since the 160shp update, because it isn't 'gutless' (it may have previously felt that way at lower DA's being limited to 145shp). In it's current form a Cabri G2 does great for training and landing 2 POB up to 6500'+ depending on the ISA deviation
It is a job in and of itself to get one in for demo purposes at the trade shows.
Hence no one uses them, popular at the coast though.
On a warm day, even a 22 requires some encouragement.
Cabri is just too heavy. They are also losing them at a pace, all from letting the tail overtake the rest of the aircraft on landing.
I'm assuming you haven't flown one since the 160shp update, because it isn't 'gutless' (it may have previously felt that way at lower DA's being limited to 145shp). In it's current form a Cabri G2 does great for training and landing 2 POB up to 6500'+ depending on the ISA deviation
"Just a pilot"
I'm looking to get my PPL (H), and I'm interested to get the views on which is the best helicopter to learn to fly in.
The closest training centre to me is about 5 minutes up the road and they have R22s and R44s to learn in. However I've been told that the Cabri G2 is a much safer, easier helicopter to fly - that would mean travelling for 45 minutes or so to get to a centre that has those, but is that a better option? I've also heard some people say that if you learn to fly an R22 you will find flying anything else easy!?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Cheers,
Mark
The closest training centre to me is about 5 minutes up the road and they have R22s and R44s to learn in. However I've been told that the Cabri G2 is a much safer, easier helicopter to fly - that would mean travelling for 45 minutes or so to get to a centre that has those, but is that a better option? I've also heard some people say that if you learn to fly an R22 you will find flying anything else easy!?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Cheers,
Mark
Don't worry about instructional airframe, Bell, Schweizer, Robinson, whatever should not be your problem. Airframe availability is more important. I would travel to a school with adequate resources, both airframe and instructional infrastructure, to avoid interrupted training sessions.
I recommend doing as much of the ground schooling as you can as early in the process as you can.... Even if you repeat some segments. The student pilot is not just learning to wiggle the stick with some control- you're learning in a different world and it has a different language.
Next, consider frequency of training. An hour a day for a pre-solo is plenty, more is generally not productive. Once you've done 5-10 hours of your 'solos', you can fly more every day and build experience.
The following users liked this post:
To answer the OP accurately. If you want to learn to fly a helicopter there are, imho few choices. I have no experience of Hillers but anyhow they are not an available choice these days, so, No 1 by a long, long country mile tops is Bell 47.
No 2 and 3 - I'd hate to choose between H269 (Hughes 300) or an earlier Enstrom. By preference a straight F28a or maybe at a pinch cheat with a turbocharged F28c. In all cases with no correlator.
I learned on Gazelle. Spoilt! Fabulous beyond imagiation. Then the CAA fcucked up and forced me to do totally unnecessary 30 hr course on the B47 for a CPL.
I learned as much about flying a helo in that short time as the Navy had taught me to Wings level in 65hrs Gazelle time - and thought I had the light helo skillset more or less there. I learned about as much again on a summer season in charter, pipeline and joyriding an the F28A. That 'unnecessary' B47 time served me very well indeed in instilling fundamental procedures and considerations of helo P of F hat the brute power and sophistication of the Gaz had masked or minimalised. Do not be decieved that sophistication in a training helo is an advantage. I'd argue the exact opposite.
But I suppose it depends what you want a PPL for.
All those months of minimal power ops in the B47 and F28 set me up perfectly for dodgy hot, heavy and high bush ops in Africa later in B206s, leave alone the highly questionalble world (performance wise) of Cheltenham, Ascot, Silverstone, gardens in Acton and Guildford, pipeline and powerline surveys beyond normal endurance and charters galore.
Guys, the message is; learn the basics first!
No 2 and 3 - I'd hate to choose between H269 (Hughes 300) or an earlier Enstrom. By preference a straight F28a or maybe at a pinch cheat with a turbocharged F28c. In all cases with no correlator.
I learned on Gazelle. Spoilt! Fabulous beyond imagiation. Then the CAA fcucked up and forced me to do totally unnecessary 30 hr course on the B47 for a CPL.
I learned as much about flying a helo in that short time as the Navy had taught me to Wings level in 65hrs Gazelle time - and thought I had the light helo skillset more or less there. I learned about as much again on a summer season in charter, pipeline and joyriding an the F28A. That 'unnecessary' B47 time served me very well indeed in instilling fundamental procedures and considerations of helo P of F hat the brute power and sophistication of the Gaz had masked or minimalised. Do not be decieved that sophistication in a training helo is an advantage. I'd argue the exact opposite.
But I suppose it depends what you want a PPL for.
All those months of minimal power ops in the B47 and F28 set me up perfectly for dodgy hot, heavy and high bush ops in Africa later in B206s, leave alone the highly questionalble world (performance wise) of Cheltenham, Ascot, Silverstone, gardens in Acton and Guildford, pipeline and powerline surveys beyond normal endurance and charters galore.
Guys, the message is; learn the basics first!
Last edited by meleagertoo; 28th Jun 2023 at 19:09.
The following 5 users liked this post by meleagertoo:
Meleagertoo, most schools now claim the auto rotative landing on the skills / 2138 PC as an EOL from a hover as opposed to what most people think of an EOL being from 1000 ft. Personally anyone who thinks it is too dangerous to put on the ground isnt a good enough instructor and shouldnt be teaching anyone !