Tourist attempts to pull on the rotor brake in flight.
One possibility is that when the pilot confirmed to himself that the brake lever was fully home, the pax took that as an indication of "You can hold onto this."
Megan, as I recall on the S-76B with the PT-6, we could only start one engine and keep at idle with the brake on. But as you say, John Dixson or Nick Lappos could tell us the tales of woe with testing these things at higher settings or both engines on.
Megan, as I recall on the S-76B with the PT-6, we could only start one engine and keep at idle with the brake on. But as you say, John Dixson or Nick Lappos could tell us the tales of woe with testing these things at higher settings or both engines on.
We had one famous customer that insisted on both engines running ( IIRC both could be started with C+ or ++ ) and the brake set. I never ever trusted that 76 brake for this purpose, even after pumping the pressure right up. You had to watch the engine oil temps for prolonged operation as the oil coolers came off the tranny fan and set the blades at 45 so you didn't cook them. Famous person came wondering out eventually and walked under the disc and the brake let go. How the descending low blade missed her head I still wonder to this day. I was surprised how fast the rotor reached ground idle speed immediately after letting go. She was a lucky lady for sure.
I have to agree. Should the Pilot have said, that could possibly kill us or more likely ground the aircraft for maintenance with potential major parts replacement after we land….
“that will kill us” is sufficiently succinct and is irrelevant if it is accurate or not.
While I’m sure the engines will have no issue overcoming the braking action I wouldn’t want to bet my life on gears and drive shafts under stress’s they are not designed for plus potential fire in the RB assembly.
Every aircraft I’ve flown they give the rotor brake a red light. That is probably an indication on what the manufacturer thinks about the RB been on in flight.
“that will kill us” is sufficiently succinct and is irrelevant if it is accurate or not.
While I’m sure the engines will have no issue overcoming the braking action I wouldn’t want to bet my life on gears and drive shafts under stress’s they are not designed for plus potential fire in the RB assembly.
Every aircraft I’ve flown they give the rotor brake a red light. That is probably an indication on what the manufacturer thinks about the RB been on in flight.
Last edited by SLFMS; 13th Jun 2023 at 06:20.
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...
“that will kill us” is sufficiently succinct and is irrelevant if it is accurate or not.
While I’m sure the engines will have no issue overcoming the braking action I wouldn’t want to bet my life on gears and drive shafts under stress’s they are not designed for plus potential fire in the RB assembly.
Every aircraft I’ve flown they give the rotor brake a red light. That is probably an indication on what the manufacturer thinks about the RB been on in flight.
“that will kill us” is sufficiently succinct and is irrelevant if it is accurate or not.
While I’m sure the engines will have no issue overcoming the braking action I wouldn’t want to bet my life on gears and drive shafts under stress’s they are not designed for plus potential fire in the RB assembly.
Every aircraft I’ve flown they give the rotor brake a red light. That is probably an indication on what the manufacturer thinks about the RB been on in flight.
Last edited by rugmuncher; 13th Jun 2023 at 13:59. Reason: added vid link
It was enough of an issue in the Gazelle for SA to
fit a mod involving a metal bar welded at right angles to the rotor brake handle that would close the throttle if the rotor brake was applied in flight. Admittedly in an aircraft that was doing engine offs with students on an almost daily basis, hence the occasional cockup.
Applying, or attempting to apply, the rotor brake in flight is a damn fool idea and this pilot has the right idea… DFWI.
fit a mod involving a metal bar welded at right angles to the rotor brake handle that would close the throttle if the rotor brake was applied in flight. Admittedly in an aircraft that was doing engine offs with students on an almost daily basis, hence the occasional cockup.
Applying, or attempting to apply, the rotor brake in flight is a damn fool idea and this pilot has the right idea… DFWI.
You sure it's not an H125 ?
Full Vid here
Full Vid here
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You sure it's not an H125 ?
Full Vid here
Full Vid here
But why the pilot had to check the rotorbrake after take-off seems to be a bad habit he should stop doing!
Last edited by Nubian; 13th Jun 2023 at 22:48.
When One Least Expects It
Previously posted on this forum in February of 2019, I repost since I relive this moment infrequently as I sit bolt upright in the obtunding silence in the middle of starless nights. This was the first and only actual autorotation in which I participated and I hope and pray the last!
- Ed
I was a relatively low-time PPL-SEL (maybe 200 hours) in 1979 when a friend who was flying Evergreen 206 LR's to a test oil rig off the coast of Georgia said he would teach me to fly "frantic palm trees". I had accumulated four hours and could hover clumsily but handle other flight regimes satisfactorily when he called one Sunday morning to ask if I'd like to bring my wife and 9-year-old son on a sight-seeing tour. Hell yes, I would!
We flew for an hour doing some low-level (10') high-speed passes over the marshes, rivers, and ocean, and some fairly high G aerobatic work. We were on long final, three minutes from KSSI (McKinnon St. Simons). We had received permission to land and were descending through 2,000'. My "friend", a 6,000-hour 'Nam pilot who was flying right seat, came over the intercom and said "Watch this!" He reached for and cycled the Emergency Fuel Cutoff switch. The annunciator panel went from green to orange to red! He had starved the engine of fuel and we were too low to get a restart! This was going to be a genuine autorotation. I turned to my family in the rear seat and yelled "Brace! Brace! Brace!"
We hit the beach, the skids dug in, the helicopter tipped forward, the main rotor clipped the tail boom off in a neat decapitation which spun us a full 360 degrees. My wife grabbed our son in her arms and exited to the left; the end of still-spinning main rotor puffed up her hair as it cleared her skull by an inch! I fumbled with my 5-point restraint for what seemed like hours, then ran like the devil.
The starboard fuel bladder had ruptured and was spilling jet-A near the exhaust. The T.O.T. was ~ 700 degrees, the VSI pegged at 2,500' down, and the ASI at 40 knots. We were lucky to be alive...
Some serious adult beverage consumption coupled with general prayers of thanksgiving to anyone listening followed that afternoon, but bright and early the next morning I went alone for an hour's introspective solo in my 152. Had I not, I am not certain that I would have ever flown again.
I have abseiled and was an ardent skydiver until my then-wife put her foot down and forced me to choose between her and my T-28. I have hung by one foot and one hand 50' above the stage while changing gels and bulbs in theatrical lighting. But get me on a 6' step ladder and it's time for vertigo and acrophobia! Go figure...
- Ed
Great detective work, slacktide! We were instructed by our "friend" to keep complete silence about our presence on the helicopter. I was proud of my young son who never divulged a word. Also aboard that day was a true friend who brought along his new Nikon camera with motorized film advance. He got excellent inside point-of-view photographs of the autorotation; after escaping, he inserted a new roll of film and got thirty-six frames of the wrecked chopper. I had copies but same were lost in a divorce.
Of further interest: when the engine was sent to the FAA's/NTSB's testbed in Maryland, it started immediately and ran without a hitch. The conclusion is pretty obvious!
The pilot, our supposed friend, got caught smuggling beaucoup "Weed of Wisdom" from Jamaica in the late 1980's. He may still be a guest of the Feds. Three hots and a cot for our favorite, well, you know....
- Ed
- Ed
I was a relatively low-time PPL-SEL (maybe 200 hours) in 1979 when a friend who was flying Evergreen 206 LR's to a test oil rig off the coast of Georgia said he would teach me to fly "frantic palm trees". I had accumulated four hours and could hover clumsily but handle other flight regimes satisfactorily when he called one Sunday morning to ask if I'd like to bring my wife and 9-year-old son on a sight-seeing tour. Hell yes, I would!
We flew for an hour doing some low-level (10') high-speed passes over the marshes, rivers, and ocean, and some fairly high G aerobatic work. We were on long final, three minutes from KSSI (McKinnon St. Simons). We had received permission to land and were descending through 2,000'. My "friend", a 6,000-hour 'Nam pilot who was flying right seat, came over the intercom and said "Watch this!" He reached for and cycled the Emergency Fuel Cutoff switch. The annunciator panel went from green to orange to red! He had starved the engine of fuel and we were too low to get a restart! This was going to be a genuine autorotation. I turned to my family in the rear seat and yelled "Brace! Brace! Brace!"
We hit the beach, the skids dug in, the helicopter tipped forward, the main rotor clipped the tail boom off in a neat decapitation which spun us a full 360 degrees. My wife grabbed our son in her arms and exited to the left; the end of still-spinning main rotor puffed up her hair as it cleared her skull by an inch! I fumbled with my 5-point restraint for what seemed like hours, then ran like the devil.
The starboard fuel bladder had ruptured and was spilling jet-A near the exhaust. The T.O.T. was ~ 700 degrees, the VSI pegged at 2,500' down, and the ASI at 40 knots. We were lucky to be alive...
Some serious adult beverage consumption coupled with general prayers of thanksgiving to anyone listening followed that afternoon, but bright and early the next morning I went alone for an hour's introspective solo in my 152. Had I not, I am not certain that I would have ever flown again.
I have abseiled and was an ardent skydiver until my then-wife put her foot down and forced me to choose between her and my T-28. I have hung by one foot and one hand 50' above the stage while changing gels and bulbs in theatrical lighting. But get me on a 6' step ladder and it's time for vertigo and acrophobia! Go figure...
- Ed
Great detective work, slacktide! We were instructed by our "friend" to keep complete silence about our presence on the helicopter. I was proud of my young son who never divulged a word. Also aboard that day was a true friend who brought along his new Nikon camera with motorized film advance. He got excellent inside point-of-view photographs of the autorotation; after escaping, he inserted a new roll of film and got thirty-six frames of the wrecked chopper. I had copies but same were lost in a divorce.
Of further interest: when the engine was sent to the FAA's/NTSB's testbed in Maryland, it started immediately and ran without a hitch. The conclusion is pretty obvious!
The pilot, our supposed friend, got caught smuggling beaucoup "Weed of Wisdom" from Jamaica in the late 1980's. He may still be a guest of the Feds. Three hots and a cot for our favorite, well, you know....
- Ed
Last edited by cavuman1; 14th Jun 2023 at 00:32. Reason: Add Text
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Different heli's have PIC in the left or right seat. EC130 is the left seat where an AS350 has PIC in the right seat. 300&500s pilot is on the left, Bell jet ranger, long ranger, 407 pilot is on the right. Bell 212 412 pilot flies from the right but long lines from the left. All different
Different heli's have PIC in the left or right seat. EC130 is the left seat where an AS350 has PIC in the right seat. 300&500s pilot is on the left, Bell jet ranger, long ranger, 407 pilot is on the right. Bell 212 412 pilot flies from the right but long lines from the left. All different
I also quickly sensed that the passenger may not use English as a first language ... just got a feeling in my bones about it ......
The video clip strongly suggests to me that the passenger had already touched the handle, and the pilot was briefly ensuring the handle was still in the correct position (rotor brake off). He had probably also advised the passenger not to touch it again. In any event, her hand went up to it, and the pilot then used distinct vocal tone, and words, in his attempt to make it clear that touching the lever was verboten!
I also quickly sensed that the passenger may not use English as a first language ... just got a feeling in my bones about it ......
I also quickly sensed that the passenger may not use English as a first language ... just got a feeling in my bones about it ......
1/ slender arm with long glue-on nails
2/ the white nylon arm sleeves (favored by Asian for sun protection)
3/ her answer hard to understand but seemingly expressing a counter point
there is clearly no valid counterpoint to be had there, so I now think a complete language miss on the preflight briefing and further a miss-communication in flight,
is it not a practice to put the young ladies in front on tours? for weight and balance I mean! I don't know that for sure, but I noticed that on many occasions the heavy guys are placed at the back and the light weights in front.
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is it not a practice to put the young ladies in front on tours?
I would always assist them with the shoulder harness
Do these scenics swap pax loads on the run, if so how are the pax briefed?
Still maintain the lass grabbed in response to the pilots action, as I said in post #6.
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I have to agree. Should the Pilot have said, that could possibly kill us or more likely ground the aircraft for maintenance with potential major parts replacement after we land….
“that will kill us” is sufficiently succinct and is irrelevant if it is accurate or not.
While I’m sure the engines will have no issue overcoming the braking action I wouldn’t want to bet my life on gears and drive shafts under stress’s they are not designed for plus potential fire in the RB assembly.
Every aircraft I’ve flown they give the rotor brake a red light. That is probably an indication on what the manufacturer thinks about the RB been on in flight.
“that will kill us” is sufficiently succinct and is irrelevant if it is accurate or not.
While I’m sure the engines will have no issue overcoming the braking action I wouldn’t want to bet my life on gears and drive shafts under stress’s they are not designed for plus potential fire in the RB assembly.
Every aircraft I’ve flown they give the rotor brake a red light. That is probably an indication on what the manufacturer thinks about the RB been on in flight.
Check handle off
Repair before next start
So not even any landing/abort criteria. Maintenance inspection requirements are to check the disk for warping/heat damage and examine pads. The times I have had pilots start with the rotor brake on the disk has been ok, but typically pads will need to be changed out