Devon Air Ambulance Ad?
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 522
Likes: 77
From: USA
I also think there is a problem with recruitment from the "interviewing" side. When most AA chief pilots are ex-mil, they end up hiring people who are like them and have similar background. Same in all industries. People hire people like themselves, and this gets perpetuated, thus narrowing the pool of people who apply or get considered.
Joined: Mar 2019
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 252
Likes: 29
From: Europe
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 76
Likes: 15
From: uk
Well I'm on a roll here 
Looking at some other ad's running at the moment for a major UK HEMS operator, and the entire ad is what you must have, must do, must comply with etc to apply! Wonderful, nothing at all about what they can offer you, why you would want to work there etc, just what YOU must comply with, as you would be so, so, lucky to work for them, (doing night shifts etc)?
No wonder these ads seem to be constantly running, if that is the best employers can do to encourage pilots to join, does this reflect their feelings/mentality towards their key staff?
B.
Looking at some other ad's running at the moment for a major UK HEMS operator, and the entire ad is what you must have, must do, must comply with etc to apply! Wonderful, nothing at all about what they can offer you, why you would want to work there etc, just what YOU must comply with, as you would be so, so, lucky to work for them, (doing night shifts etc)?No wonder these ads seem to be constantly running, if that is the best employers can do to encourage pilots to join, does this reflect their feelings/mentality towards their key staff?
B.
Guest
Joined: Jul 2017
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 840
Likes: 236
From: UK
Flight instruction, done well, is a hard and skilled job
Offshore flying, done well, is a hard and skilled job
Charter work, done well, is a hard and skilled job
etc
There is nothing inherently "special" or "unique" about the skills needed for a HEMS job.
Yet, you won't get a sniff of a HEMS job without HEMS or ex-mil experience
That's one of the main reasons HEMS employers claim they can't attract/find the "right" staff. They need to accept that a decent pilot can learn, and has transferable skills. At the end of the day it's just stick/lever/pedals, good decision making, and the ability to work with people (ie like ALL flying jobs)
Offshore flying, done well, is a hard and skilled job
Charter work, done well, is a hard and skilled job
etc
There is nothing inherently "special" or "unique" about the skills needed for a HEMS job.
Yet, you won't get a sniff of a HEMS job without HEMS or ex-mil experience
That's one of the main reasons HEMS employers claim they can't attract/find the "right" staff. They need to accept that a decent pilot can learn, and has transferable skills. At the end of the day it's just stick/lever/pedals, good decision making, and the ability to work with people (ie like ALL flying jobs)
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 522
Likes: 77
From: USA
This one I have to disagree with. Look at all the HAA crashes in the USA. It's always been an epidemic. Pilots flying perfectly serviceable aircraft into the ground, time and time again. Flying with NVG's really is another skillset that only experience can build. I hated it so gave it up. Just wasn't for me. Then factor in brown out and white out for scene flights. There's a lot to F up if you're not on top of your decision making. I never went to work feeling like a hero. It was just a job.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 76
Likes: 15
From: uk
Sir Korsky,
I think it's the experience level in the USA plays a huge part of this. I was reading a while back of a fatal crash where the pilot had the required total hours, but had achieved these flying tours in the grand canyon, day vfr, usually bright sunshine? The accident occurred way up north at night in poor weather and snowy conditions, something completely foreign to this particular pilot. What H99 is trying to point out, is that the hems operators are reluctant to take on experienced, seasoned pilots. He's correct in saying there is nothing "special" about Hems, or any other role, there is nothing special about landing on a boat in the North sea, pitching and rolling, at night, non nvg, it just takes a bit of training and practice. A decent pilot should be able to turn his or her hands to any role, given a bit of insight and training, sometimes that can be just a couple of hours of practice.
B.
I think it's the experience level in the USA plays a huge part of this. I was reading a while back of a fatal crash where the pilot had the required total hours, but had achieved these flying tours in the grand canyon, day vfr, usually bright sunshine? The accident occurred way up north at night in poor weather and snowy conditions, something completely foreign to this particular pilot. What H99 is trying to point out, is that the hems operators are reluctant to take on experienced, seasoned pilots. He's correct in saying there is nothing "special" about Hems, or any other role, there is nothing special about landing on a boat in the North sea, pitching and rolling, at night, non nvg, it just takes a bit of training and practice. A decent pilot should be able to turn his or her hands to any role, given a bit of insight and training, sometimes that can be just a couple of hours of practice.
B.
Guest
Joined: Jul 2017
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 840
Likes: 236
From: UK
Here in the UK there seems to be this pervasive attitude amongst operators and employers that what they do is "special".
eg Onshore people think north sea pilots can only fly in a straight line, offshore people think onshore pilots are all cowboys, everybody thinks flight instruction is easy and any monkey can do it, VIP operators think that only they know how to deal with customers and dress smart, HEMS people think what they do is extra special (as if other pilots have never landed in a field). I am exaggerating, but you get the point.
Yet, often, if you are prepared to pay £12k-£20k for a type rating/line training costs etc, these experience requirements suddenly go away, funny that...
eg Onshore people think north sea pilots can only fly in a straight line, offshore people think onshore pilots are all cowboys, everybody thinks flight instruction is easy and any monkey can do it, VIP operators think that only they know how to deal with customers and dress smart, HEMS people think what they do is extra special (as if other pilots have never landed in a field). I am exaggerating, but you get the point.
Yet, often, if you are prepared to pay £12k-£20k for a type rating/line training costs etc, these experience requirements suddenly go away, funny that...
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,184
Likes: 541
From: Lost again...
Well I'm on a roll here Looking at some other ad's running at the moment for a major UK HEMS operator, and the entire ad is what you must have, must do, must comply with etc to apply! Wonderful, nothing at all about what they can offer you, why you would want to work there etc, just what YOU must comply with, as you would be so, so, lucky to work for them, (doing night shifts etc)?
No wonder these ads seem to be constantly running, if that is the best employers can do to encourage pilots to join, does this reflect their feelings/mentality towards their key staff?
B.
Looking at some other ad's running at the moment for a major UK HEMS operator, and the entire ad is what you must have, must do, must comply with etc to apply! Wonderful, nothing at all about what they can offer you, why you would want to work there etc, just what YOU must comply with, as you would be so, so, lucky to work for them, (doing night shifts etc)?No wonder these ads seem to be constantly running, if that is the best employers can do to encourage pilots to join, does this reflect their feelings/mentality towards their key staff?
B.
That is slowly changing.
There is an ad out for another UK HEMS operator which (although specifying the minimum requirements) seems to move more towards describing the up-sides rather than just demanding bits of paper. It also includes type ratings and training if necessary.
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 24
Likes: 23
From: uk
SAS are currently looking for new co-pilots, but you must have had an IR test/reval in the last six months. Pretty strict criteria.
So you drop £50,000 on an IR, spend 7 months looking for a job....and then...SAS won't even look at you! That is just ridiculous. And these charities wonder why they can't attract pilots?
So you drop £50,000 on an IR, spend 7 months looking for a job....and then...SAS won't even look at you! That is just ridiculous. And these charities wonder why they can't attract pilots?
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
I looked at going HEMS 9 years ago when I left the RAF, the recruiter made a huge deal about landing in fields - I asked him what it was he thought we did on SAR day and night but he was convinced HEMS was somehow special and different.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,303
Likes: 23
From: UK and MALTA
Flight instruction, done well, is a hard and skilled job
Offshore flying, done well, is a hard and skilled job
Charter work, done well, is a hard and skilled job
etc
There is nothing inherently "special" or "unique" about the skills needed for a HEMS job.
Yet, you won't get a sniff of a HEMS job without HEMS or ex-mil experience
That's one of the main reasons HEMS employers claim they can't attract/find the "right" staff. They need to accept that a decent pilot can learn, and has transferable skills. At the end of the day it's just stick/lever/pedals, good decision making, and the ability to work with people (ie like ALL flying jobs)
Offshore flying, done well, is a hard and skilled job
Charter work, done well, is a hard and skilled job
etc
There is nothing inherently "special" or "unique" about the skills needed for a HEMS job.
Yet, you won't get a sniff of a HEMS job without HEMS or ex-mil experience
That's one of the main reasons HEMS employers claim they can't attract/find the "right" staff. They need to accept that a decent pilot can learn, and has transferable skills. At the end of the day it's just stick/lever/pedals, good decision making, and the ability to work with people (ie like ALL flying jobs)
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,111
Likes: 118
Crab, hear what you were saying,I was told the same about landing in a field, seems to have missed the point I was putting loads into clearings in a forest on a 100 ft line 1
Last edited by Hughes500; 9th May 2023 at 20:01.
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,184
Likes: 541
From: Lost again...
No-one has ever done HEMS work until they have done HEMS work
It is a skill which, like all others, is taught and learned.
Certain types of experience are an advantage but if the correct training is provided then most reasonably competent helicopter pilots will be able to transition to the challenges of HEMS just the same as they can learn the skills necessary for Offshore flying, SAR and all the other roles.
There are plenty of Single Pilot Day/night with NVG HEMS pilots in this country who have never been in the military and never flown SAR. They seem to get along just fine.
It's challenging but it's not a dark art.
OH
It is a skill which, like all others, is taught and learned.
Certain types of experience are an advantage but if the correct training is provided then most reasonably competent helicopter pilots will be able to transition to the challenges of HEMS just the same as they can learn the skills necessary for Offshore flying, SAR and all the other roles.
There are plenty of Single Pilot Day/night with NVG HEMS pilots in this country who have never been in the military and never flown SAR. They seem to get along just fine.
It's challenging but it's not a dark art.
OH
