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November 2nd 2022 - BBC report heli down in Wales

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November 2nd 2022 - BBC report heli down in Wales

Old 5th Nov 2022, 14:59
  #61 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Shy is right on this.

Being a Dinosaur in this business of flying helicopters but blessed to have flown with NVG's after all those years using just the MK 1's in field operations from no lights beyond a single shrouded flashlight or hand held strobe light in the middle of some of the densest jungle and mountainous areas of the World.....NVG's are the absolute best aid one can use.

To offer a for instance.....we regularly trained in night ops at a remote place in the Southeast of the United States....with no external lights to be seen when we were out at unit authorized VMC minimums.

The LZ was a small flat open area with lots of broom straw field grass which is a light tan color....surround by 80-100 foot tall Pine Trees.

On a zero Moon overcast night....it was black dark out. With NVG's, even at the worst light level it was very easy to fly the circuits and do the landings, hover, and take offs.

We still did them without the NVG's...with no landing lights or nav lights....but it was a very hard thing to do.

Add Nav lights and as you approached the hover the grass would begin to show up visually.....add the rotating beacon and it got better yet.....and of course with the landing lights we were back to normal night ops.....and with the Night Sun on White Light....no problem at all.

With NVG's.....just the Nav Lights. on and it seemed the Landing Light was on when using just bare eyes.

With NVG's using the IR Filter over the Night Sun and the Light tweaked to the Flood Light mode.....again it was very easy.

After you fly with NVG's you do begin to wonder how we ever did it without them.

With practice and learning the limitations of NVG's....using them becomes quite a natural thing.

Combined with FLIR.....the combination of NVG's an FLIR really makes night flying much more safe.

Modern equipment does make night flying far easier, but NVG would be much more tricky if you’re dealing with passengers and or baggage and in any case, never have the luxury of a flying helmet to attach a set of goggles to!

I was privileged enough, right at the end of my RAF time, to be allowed to do some night flying in New Mexico with a certain USAAF military unit. Flying a CH-53 for the very first time, wearing NVG and shortly afterwards being allowed to land in the desert on FLIR was very satisfying. I was also allowed to fly a Blackhawk for the first time, again by night with NVG. The crew then very trustingly allowed me to have a go at air to air refuelling behind a C-130. I’m pleased to say I caught the basket at first attempt and we were able take the fuel we needed. It made me realise how far behind the times the RAF was at that time. Having flown a second career in the civilian world made me realise how much further behind the CAA rules were. However, modern civilian helicopters have “moving map” navigation equipment that I could only have dreamed of during my military career.

Last edited by ShyTorque; 5th Nov 2022 at 18:43.
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Old 5th Nov 2022, 15:47
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The Authorities and their Rules sure seem to lag behind the advances in technology.

Our FAA is not much differrent that the CAA in that regard....more a matter of degree than anything.

I flew in the UK and found it to be far more Rule bound and hamstrung by bureaucracy than our system.

Now if you had just had the chance to fly the Osprey out in New Mexico....you would have covered all the bases in one go!

I will admit "sparkling" an aggressor on the ground with an IR [email protected] for the door gunner to target was good fun.....all done in the pitch dark with no lights of any kind showing......NVG's make night flying easier....and far safer.

You ever wonder how FJ Pilots flying single seat manage to do so.....SOLO?

A fact that makes me wonder about the two pilot rule.
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Old 5th Nov 2022, 17:18
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Yes me too £14
£15 now!
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Old 5th Nov 2022, 19:09
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BBC reporting that Dai Walters has been moved to intensive care

h14
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Old 7th Nov 2022, 15:19
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Very surprised that this accident hasn't been mentioned - BBC News | UK | Fatal police air crash investigation (Couldn't find AAIB report).
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Old 7th Nov 2022, 15:25
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
\

I was also allowed to fly a Blackhawk for the first time, again by night with NVG. The crew then very trustingly allowed me to have a go at air to air refuelling behind a C-130..
No, they trusted the guy sitting next to you!
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Old 7th Nov 2022, 15:44
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Originally Posted by papa_sierra View Post
Very surprised that this accident hasn't been mentioned - BBC News | UK | Fatal police air crash investigation (Couldn't find AAIB report).
https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/euro...ely-2305-hours

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Old 7th Nov 2022, 17:07
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Very surprised that this accident hasn't been mentioned
It has little to do with the crash pertaining to this thread - other than it was at night - it was an IIMC encounter and subsequent disorientation rather than (what looks like) clipping trees during the departure.
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Old 7th Nov 2022, 17:26
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The AAIB (and other countries') archive are littered with reports of helicopter pilots getting disoriented and crashing, or hitting objects/trees when landing/taking off. That's the bulk of all accidents.
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Old 7th Nov 2022, 18:43
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Thanks for that, appreciated. Was nearby on that night, weather wasn't the best.
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Old 7th Nov 2022, 19:59
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Originally Posted by papa_sierra View Post
Thanks for that, appreciated. Was nearby on that night, weather wasn't the best.


It was actually quite a lot worse than the area forecast. Two hours prior to that accident we departed only to find the base of the cloud was at approximately 250 feet agl.


My log book entry states ****** - Local - ******, 0.1 hours flown.
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Old 7th Nov 2022, 20:26
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Originally Posted by FloaterNorthWest View Post
£15 now!
What, just to book a medical? When did that come in?
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Old 7th Nov 2022, 21:05
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Originally Posted by MightyGem View Post
What, just to book a medical? When did that come in?
When the CAA introduced CELLMA which has driven many AMEs away.
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Old 7th Nov 2022, 22:10
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
Modern equipment does make night flying far easier, but NVG would be much more tricky if youíre dealing with passengers and or baggage and in any case, never have the luxury of a flying helmet to attach a set of goggles to!

I was privileged enough, right at the end of my RAF time, to be allowed to do some night flying in New Mexico with a certain USAAF military unit. Flying a CH-53 for the very first time, wearing NVG and shortly afterwards being allowed to land in the desert on FLIR was very satisfying. I was also allowed to fly a Blackhawk for the first time, again by night with NVG. The crew then very trustingly allowed me to have a go at air to air refuelling behind a C-130. Iím pleased to say I caught the basket at first attempt and we were able take the fuel we needed. It made me realise how far behind the times the RAF was at that time. Having flown a second career in the civilian world made me realise how much further behind the CAA rules were. However, modern civilian helicopters have ďmoving mapĒ navigation equipment that I could only have dreamed of during my military career.
The Air Force and CH-53's and they just let you have a go at air refueling? Hmmmmm.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 05:04
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let you have a go at air refueling
there is a first time for everything, you are talking about a chap who was an experienced military instructor, refueling after all is just an exercise in formation flying, albeit with a leader (target) that has a mind of its own.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 06:17
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The Air Force and CH-53's and they just let you have a go at air refueling? Hmmmmm.
The RAF had exchange officers doing that sort of thing for many years in Alburquerque.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 09:28
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Originally Posted by helichris View Post
The Air Force and CH-53's and they just let you have a go at air refueling? Hmmmmm.
Yes, it was during an RAF/USAF exchange visit. Iím eternally grateful for the opportunity to have taken part.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 20:51
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Originally Posted by FloaterNorthWest View Post
When the CAA introduced CELLMA which has driven many AMEs away.
Thanks.
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