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Italian Army Bell 205 Close Call

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Italian Army Bell 205 Close Call

Old 6th Oct 2022, 10:18
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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I did not hear of dropping of smoke markers for such purposes until I joined a UK Based Helicopter operator which incorporated many such British Military practices into its flying procedures.....and we were. issued smoke grenades for that purpose.

I never did do that as I had learned how to assess wind conditions during an airborne pretending check that included both power required and available along with figuring out the wind along with other issues.

Dropping a smoke grenade works...but also has the risk of starting a wildfire in the process that has to be reckoned with during the decision to drop the smoke or not.

A senior company check pilot set fire to an airfield using that method or a Flare fired from the aircraft as part of a training flight thus we learned to be very careful about using the smoke grenades.
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Old 6th Oct 2022, 11:37
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flying Binghi View Post
I were suggesting that having two cameras going from a group of people suggested there were an expectation of a landing. I’m wondering were the ground party part of the military ops ?
See the link I posted in #36. It was next to a mountain lodge in a popular Alpine hiking area (Meran 2000), and the weather was nice, so probably plenty of people around-
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Old 6th Oct 2022, 12:05
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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This looks like a very old "205" with the t/r on the left side of the tail boom. T/R rotation CCW.

Good discussion about the pros and cons of the "forward" T/R blade rotating with M/R downwash or into the M/R downwash from way back when.

Bell 205 tail-rotor
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Old 6th Oct 2022, 12:57
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
I did not hear of dropping of smoke markers for such purposes until I joined a UK Based Helicopter operator which incorporated many such British Military practices into its flying procedures.....and we were. issued smoke grenades for that purpose.

I never did do that as I had learned how to assess wind conditions during an airborne pretending check that included both power required and available along with figuring out the wind along with other issues.

Dropping a smoke grenade works...but also has the risk of starting a wildfire in the process that has to be reckoned with during the decision to drop the smoke or not.

A senior company check pilot set fire to an airfield using that method or a Flare fired from the aircraft as part of a training flight thus we learned to be very careful about using the smoke grenades.
Yet UK SAR and other military units used the technique extensively with very few incidents for a great many years.

Like this Italian pilot, when you think you are too clever to be caught out by wind changes, especially fickle in the mountains, that is when you find out you are not.
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Old 6th Oct 2022, 15:16
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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UH-1H?

I don't believe any 205's had a tail rotor on the left, but of course the HUEY did; happy to be proved wrong.

Originally Posted by HBXNE View Post
This looks like a very old "205" with the t/r on the left side of the tail boom. T/R rotation CCW.

Good discussion about the pros and cons of the "forward" T/R blade rotating with M/R downwash or into the M/R downwash from way back when.

Bell 205 tail-rotor
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Old 6th Oct 2022, 16:40
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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"UH-1H?"

I would say you are correct with regards to civilian vs military.

I did work on 204B's & 205A-1's in the '80's. The 204 T/R was on the left hand side and on the 205's the T/R was on the right hand side.

With the incident a/c, it is an Italian military "Huey" with the CCW rotating T/R on the left hand side.

I do wonder who was flying at the time of the incident. Training flight with the "student" in the right seat and IP in the left? Who was on the controls during / after the pirouette and backing out of the shoot/gully?
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Old 6th Oct 2022, 18:23
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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I've just been looking at 2 of my photos of SOAF AB205s and they definitely have the t/r on the aircraft's left side, with blade descending in front of the t/r g/box (ie anti-clockwise when viewed from the left of the aircraft). Aircraft was the direct equivalent of the UH1H with the addition of a permanently fitted electric winch (hoist, if you prefer) just behind the pilot.
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Old 6th Oct 2022, 20:08
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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The "205" boondoggle.

Bell 205A - Commercial helicopter with an FAA TCDS - made by BHT - T5311 originally - TR LH side - MTOW 8500 lbs. Can and I think most were upgraded to A-1's as only 39 odd produced but some not eligible.

Bell 205A-1 - Commercial helicopter with an FAA TCDS - made by BHT - T5313 originally - TR RH side (212 part) MTOW 9500 lbs Internal 10500 lbs external. Count upgraded A models and roughly only 293 ever in existence.

AB205A - Non commercial (i.e. Military) No TCDS - UH-1D/H equivalent made by Agusta under licence in Italy (UH-1 is a US military designation as they "own" the type hence not called a UH-1.) TR LH side.

Park a UH-1 next to a commercial US built 205A-1 and they look "similar" but there are a lot of differences - electrical, drive train, engine, structure, etc etc. To me a "205" is the commercial version of type and everything else is a UH-1 of which there were thousands built.

Over the years there have been a huge amount of mods and STC's with UH-1's getting commercial parts fitted and upgrades to the basic 205A-1 to A-1+, A1++ (212 parts and bigger engines), and even to a B model which is basically a single engine 212 with a T5317. And of course not to be confused with a 212 Eagle "Single".
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