EMS 429 down Elba, NY
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From: Montreal
EMS 429 down Elba, NY
Might be N507TJ, Bell 429, training flight. Both occupants deceased.
https://apnews.com/article/media-new...b00eca5f277b32
https://apnews.com/article/media-new...b00eca5f277b32
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From: West
Crew identified
per the daily news online
The pilot was James E. Sauer, 60, of Churchville, state police said. He was a retired New York State police pilot who began working with Mercy Flight in October 2020.
Stewart M. Dietrick, 60 of Prosper, Texas was also aboard. He was described as a Bell Helicopter flight instructor.
The pilot was James E. Sauer, 60, of Churchville, state police said. He was a retired New York State police pilot who began working with Mercy Flight in October 2020.
Stewart M. Dietrick, 60 of Prosper, Texas was also aboard. He was described as a Bell Helicopter flight instructor.
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From: Virginia, USA
Kathryn's Report: Bell 429, N507TJ: Fatal accident occurred April 26, 2022 in Elba, Genesee County, New York
Adsbexchange lost the signal at about 1800’.
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao...amp=1650992397
Adsbexchange lost the signal at about 1800’.
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao...amp=1650992397
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From: Downeast
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Downeast
Another News article with a photo of the aircraft wreckage.
In all of the photos I. have seen....all with limited field of view....no signs of the Main Rotors is visible (at least to my old eyes).
One mention said the Tail Rotor was laying close by but separated from the main wreckage. Later it was described as being 300 feet away from the main wreckage which was badly damaged but mostly intact.
A different news report had this to say......
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2022/0...-occurred.html
One Witness recounted having heard some unusual noises ("Clicking followed by a loud BOOM").
Can anyone add to the description of the crash scene beyond that?
https://nypost.com/2022/04/27/james-...icopter-crash/
In all of the photos I. have seen....all with limited field of view....no signs of the Main Rotors is visible (at least to my old eyes).
One mention said the Tail Rotor was laying close by but separated from the main wreckage. Later it was described as being 300 feet away from the main wreckage which was badly damaged but mostly intact.
A different news report had this to say......
The helicopter was flying for about 105 minutes when witnesses observed the helicopter at an altitude of 2,000 feet, heard a loud boom and saw it fall. The wreckage is spread out an area of about 2,000 feet, McCarter said.
One Witness recounted having heard some unusual noises ("Clicking followed by a loud BOOM").
Can anyone add to the description of the crash scene beyond that?
https://nypost.com/2022/04/27/james-...icopter-crash/
Last edited by SASless; 28th April 2022 at 12:54.
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From: USA
The is no upper age limit in Part 135 operations. However, in some ops customers will assign a maximum total age number in the cockpit of larger multi-crew helicopters. I believe Shell had a max 120 years cockpit age limit at one time for offshore flights.
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From: Downeast
Best video of crash scene so far.
It appears the Helicopter experienced a catastrophic failure of some kind while in flight and shed parts on the way down.
Cause of the failure or suspected cause has not been determined.
Though not seen in the video...the Main Rotors seem to be further away than the Tail Rotor and Vertical Stabilizers.
The NTSB Official described the wreckage trail being about 2000 feet long.
https://www.whec.com/rochester-new-y...crash/6456860/
It appears the Helicopter experienced a catastrophic failure of some kind while in flight and shed parts on the way down.
Cause of the failure or suspected cause has not been determined.
Though not seen in the video...the Main Rotors seem to be further away than the Tail Rotor and Vertical Stabilizers.
The NTSB Official described the wreckage trail being about 2000 feet long.
https://www.whec.com/rochester-new-y...crash/6456860/
Last edited by SASless; 28th April 2022 at 13:46.
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From: Pensacola, Florida
I think it's about time that pilots and instructors stop messing around with VRS. There are certain corners of the flight envelope that we shouldn't be exploring. As our fixed-wing brethren have found out, some things are better left practiced in the sim.
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From: Canada
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From: Arizona
"We" don't know anything factual, as I said "word on the street". Take that for what you may.
I will say that the Virginia State Police had a similar occurrence in a B407 about 5 years ago attributed to entering VRS. Main rotor severed the tailboom.
I will say that the Virginia State Police had a similar occurrence in a B407 about 5 years ago attributed to entering VRS. Main rotor severed the tailboom.
Last edited by LRP; 28th April 2022 at 20:30. Reason: unnecessary comment.
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From: Downeast
What is the commonality between the two crashes besides "Bell"?
Unless you can provide some reasonable cause for the "Word" then it is pure supposition by someone who originated the rumor.....and rises to the level of gossip.
In time perhaps there might be some basis for such speculation such as prior experiences with the Instructor, or a module of the training syllabus that includes VRS, or something like that.
Was there VRS training being done....per a formal curriculum?
Any other 429 Operators utilizing Bell Helicopter Factory Instructor Pilots able to confirm they have had such training by Bell Instructors?
Unless you can provide some reasonable cause for the "Word" then it is pure supposition by someone who originated the rumor.....and rises to the level of gossip.
In time perhaps there might be some basis for such speculation such as prior experiences with the Instructor, or a module of the training syllabus that includes VRS, or something like that.
Was there VRS training being done....per a formal curriculum?
Any other 429 Operators utilizing Bell Helicopter Factory Instructor Pilots able to confirm they have had such training by Bell Instructors?
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From: Virginia, USA
Here is a quick animation I created of the last 90 seconds of ADS-B Exchange data using Google Earth. This is my first attempt using Google Earth in this manner and it might not exactly track real time .
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From: 3rd Rock, #29B
Without filtering the ADSB data, it does appear the helo was in a low speed, moderate sink rate descent that was not autorotation sink rates, so it was a partial powered descent, roughly 20Kts GS, 800-1000FPM, in a turn. Seems an odd altitude to demonstrate a VRS recovery, and doing a demo or a practice in a left turn seems odd as well. Lousy ending.