H145 makes forced landing
for helicopters with IBF installed:
Flights in falling or blowing snow shall be prohibited
Flights at or below 5 °C OAT when visible moisture is present shall be avoided. Visible moisture can be precipitation (snow, sleet, ice crystals) or fog/cloud reducing the visibility below 800 m.
Flights in falling or blowing snow shall be prohibited
Flights at or below 5 °C OAT when visible moisture is present shall be avoided. Visible moisture can be precipitation (snow, sleet, ice crystals) or fog/cloud reducing the visibility below 800 m.
IBF out please!
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Never heard of an 'anti-ice filter' as part of a fuel system - heat exchangers to cool oil with fuel or heat fuel with oil yes - just how would this 'anti-ice filter' work as part of the fuel system?
Probably a bit off topic in this case though, as it seems like its the Inlet Barrier Filter that is the issue here
AHD may have a little logistic issue with this.
Not all aircraft with IBF's are fitted with the "fixed parts" to allow removal of the filters and fit the blanking plates.
It is listed in the SB to retrofit the IBF's with the covers as an "optional part" and listed in the IPC but there was no facility to install it. i.e. Service Bulletin.
They have just released an SB as of today the 9th of December but no listing of the kit price. Why it isn't part of the original IBF kit is beyond me. It is offered as a "product improvement" which is a euphemism for "oops" to "save face" or "Gesicht wahren" maybe depending on where you are standing at the time.
As a spare part the list price is EUR 6775.14 per side with a lead time of 7 months! Some serious margin there in the "cost recovery" and so much for this winter then?
Looks like a flat piece of Alclad and an Alclad frame, 26 odd screws and corresponding bunch of nutplates. My guess is the total material cost might be EUR 200.00 max and I think I could make them myself in about 4 hours!
The SB says it takes about 10 hours to complete the installation.
At the time we purchased an H145 it was not offered or listed and operationally if you have an issue with a filter you would be grounded without having the option to remove the filter and continue operating.
No doubt the filters are well worth it for the added protection to the operation of the engines but I feel that someone has not really thought this through on the operational side at AHD.
Personally I think the kit should be included as part of the original IBF install SB as it would make sense to incorporate it at the time of installation and the retrofit offered as a "commercial incentive" i.e. FOC.
Just spitballing as we do here but I think a few folks may have a case.
Not all aircraft with IBF's are fitted with the "fixed parts" to allow removal of the filters and fit the blanking plates.
It is listed in the SB to retrofit the IBF's with the covers as an "optional part" and listed in the IPC but there was no facility to install it. i.e. Service Bulletin.
They have just released an SB as of today the 9th of December but no listing of the kit price. Why it isn't part of the original IBF kit is beyond me. It is offered as a "product improvement" which is a euphemism for "oops" to "save face" or "Gesicht wahren" maybe depending on where you are standing at the time.
As a spare part the list price is EUR 6775.14 per side with a lead time of 7 months! Some serious margin there in the "cost recovery" and so much for this winter then?
Looks like a flat piece of Alclad and an Alclad frame, 26 odd screws and corresponding bunch of nutplates. My guess is the total material cost might be EUR 200.00 max and I think I could make them myself in about 4 hours!
The SB says it takes about 10 hours to complete the installation.
At the time we purchased an H145 it was not offered or listed and operationally if you have an issue with a filter you would be grounded without having the option to remove the filter and continue operating.
No doubt the filters are well worth it for the added protection to the operation of the engines but I feel that someone has not really thought this through on the operational side at AHD.
Personally I think the kit should be included as part of the original IBF install SB as it would make sense to incorporate it at the time of installation and the retrofit offered as a "commercial incentive" i.e. FOC.
Just spitballing as we do here but I think a few folks may have a case.
Avoid imitations
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No airframe filter on 135 or 145 or 350 (standard) or H500 (standard) for that matter and possibly not originally on B206.
They were initially fitted to older aircraft without fuel/oil heaters on the engine. Theory being if there was ice in the fuel you would get impending bypass indication as a pre-warning.
Plus it allowed operation at lower temps without FSII. FSII is nasty stuff.
They were initially fitted to older aircraft without fuel/oil heaters on the engine. Theory being if there was ice in the fuel you would get impending bypass indication as a pre-warning.
Plus it allowed operation at lower temps without FSII. FSII is nasty stuff.
Agusta seem to have this better thought out. The fuel filters are heated by the engine oil, so that fuel with FSII isn’t required.
They both do have fuel/oil heat exchangers on the accessory gearbox but the engine fuel filter is part of the FMM.
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RVDT,
I think you are correct; I was thinking of the Sikorsky S76. Too many types in my logbook and old age creeping in.
However, the later Agusta 109s with the PW207C engines have an anti-ice airframe filter and don’t need FSII.
I think you are correct; I was thinking of the Sikorsky S76. Too many types in my logbook and old age creeping in.
However, the later Agusta 109s with the PW207C engines have an anti-ice airframe filter and don’t need FSII.
Did Airbus not do the falling and blowing snow certification for the IBF?
I spent some time talking to I think it was the guys from Dart at AHI in Grand Prairie TX who had just completed FAA certification on the filter for the AS350B3.
They had been up in Canada and it is actually pretty involved and difficult.
Maybe AHD used the "wrong type of snow"
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"snow" is a fairly broad generalisation. There are vastly different types.
I spent some time talking to I think it was the guys from Dart at AHI in Grand Prairie TX who had just completed FAA certification on the filter for the AS350B3.
They had been up in Canada and it is actually pretty involved and difficult.
Maybe AHD used the "wrong type of snow"
I spent some time talking to I think it was the guys from Dart at AHI in Grand Prairie TX who had just completed FAA certification on the filter for the AS350B3.
They had been up in Canada and it is actually pretty involved and difficult.
Maybe AHD used the "wrong type of snow"
Sikorsky with the S-76 C++ ended up doing both the warm wet snow and the cold dry snow in its certification of the IBF.
The BK117 (including C2 and D2 with IBF) were certified to FAR29 so those exact conditions in accordance with AC-29 29.1093 would have been used.
Which the crew in question exceeded in the incident from my understanding. I think they were on the ground running for significantly longer than 20 mins.
Which the crew in question exceeded in the incident from my understanding. I think they were on the ground running for significantly longer than 20 mins.
BK117 A1,A3, A4, B1, B2 - Honeywell (Lycoming) LTS 101 in various flavours 650B1, 750B1.
BK117 C1 - Arriel 1E2
BK117 C2, C2e (EC145) - Arriel 1E2
BK117 D2 (H145) Arriel 2E
BK117 D3 (H145 5 blade) Arriel 2E
Arriel Versions all pretty much the same in the inlet depending with or without IBF.
BK117 C1 - Arriel 1E2
BK117 C2, C2e (EC145) - Arriel 1E2
BK117 D2 (H145) Arriel 2E
BK117 D3 (H145 5 blade) Arriel 2E
Arriel Versions all pretty much the same in the inlet depending with or without IBF.
It is listed in the SB to retrofit the IBF's with the covers as an "optional part" and listed in the IPC but there was no facility to install it. i.e. Service Bulletin.
They have just released an SB as of today the 9th of December but no listing of the kit price. Why it isn't part of the original IBF kit is beyond me. It is offered as a "product improvement" which is a euphemism for "oops" to "save face" or "Gesicht wahren" maybe depending on where you are standing at the time.
