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Very weird 206 crash video Langley BC 20 May 2021

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Very weird 206 crash video Langley BC 20 May 2021

Old 24th May 2021, 01:19
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
Is there a good reason for helicopters to shift to forward flight immediately on takeoff rather than to ascend vertically for a few hundred feet before heading out?
Iirc, some recent accidents might have been avoided that way.
Forward speed increases lift - just like on a fixed wing. It's just not as critical on a helo.
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Old 24th May 2021, 01:21
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie View Post
Ummm... yes... it needs a heck of a lot more power to climb vertically, and it puts you into the Avoid area of the Height/Velocity curve.
So going vertical is more expensive (fuel and engine stress), plus it puts one into a dead mans space, too high to land in one piece and too low to autorotate. Got it, trades one set of risks for another.
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Old 24th May 2021, 05:13
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Not just "more expensive", because in many cases, the aircraft has power for an In Ground Effect (IGE) hover and transition to forward flight, but not enough for Out of Ground Effect.(OGE) or OMG.
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Old 24th May 2021, 06:40
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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It would count as a flight “from the moment the rotors start to move for the purpose of flight to the moment they stop”
Took off with HYD deselected? From my memory, apart from the position of the switch that isn’t 8n your immediate sight line, there is no other indication that HYD is selected or not until you lift into the hover and realise you need more effort than you expected with the resultant over controlling.

Only a guess.
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Old 24th May 2021, 07:48
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
Logging it as P i/c would be a bit cheeky. . .
Pilot in Command : “No”
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Old 24th May 2021, 09:54
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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If the HYD was off, the pilot would feel the feedback in the cyclic and the hugely increased effort in raising the collective - I doubt that anybody with a milligram of brains could try to yank it into the air without realising that the hydraulics were off.
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Old 24th May 2021, 11:41
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Take Off to Landing...constitutes one flight.
How does the guy log the time for this one?
If he cannot log any flight time....does it count as an Accident or Incident?
If he can log the time ... is there a record for shortest logged flight? This one looks like less than 10 seconds.
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Old 24th May 2021, 12:10
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Ascend, you are assuming everyone has common sense there ( if sense was common then everyone would have it ) I have seen quite recently a pilot get in a 206 on my home airfield and start his 206 up with the rear tie down still done up ! So I wouldn't put it past anyone to take off with hydraulics off
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Old 24th May 2021, 13:13
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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I'm going to cut the guy some slack on the basis that no qualified pilot could accidently wreck a serviceable helicopter in the way we saw that helicopter wrecked in that video. There must have been something seriously whacky with that helicopter which was outside the competency of any pilot to do something to change the outcome. For the life of me I can't think what that might be, other than the passenger yanked on the flight controls unexpectedly.
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Old 24th May 2021, 16:43
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Media reported:"after undergoing maintenance", in an earlier post. One would think that the ground run part would include trying small control movements and looking for the correct rotor response ( assume one can move the pedals on this model before starting the engine and confirming that control input is free and properly phased. Then, before getting energetic about getting up and away, lift it to just skids beginning to break ground and again, small control inputs, after which a very slow lift to a low hover and repeat the control inputs etc. Not what the video shows, but then again, perhaps something went amiss as they were just slowly lifting and the result was beyond their ability to perform any corrective action. Test flights following maintenance have to be treated very carefully.
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Old 24th May 2021, 17:00
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hughes500 View Post
Ascend, you are assuming everyone has common sense there ( if sense was common then everyone would have it ) I have seen quite recently a pilot get in a 206 on my home airfield and start his 206 up with the rear tie down still done up ! So I wouldn't put it past anyone to take off with hydraulics off
Seen it done numerous times. Seen one start up with the blade tied down and intake and engine blanks in until somebody ran up and told him to stop cranking.

I personally partially blame mobile phones for a lot of it, too distracting.
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Old 24th May 2021, 22:38
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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"Passenger?" Hmm.
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Old 25th May 2021, 05:00
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lelebebbel View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTyJV8czKBU

Is this some crazy visual illusion, or is that thing spinning clockwise? The video doesn't appear to be reversed or mirrored, the tail rotor is on the correct side, the leading edges seem to point counter clockwise as they should. Any theories what is going on here? Media says this happened "after undergoing maintenance".
Was Hogg at the controls again?
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Old 25th May 2021, 07:28
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by krypton_john View Post
Was Hogg at the controls again?
^^^^^ This post for the win.
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Old 25th May 2021, 08:01
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Was this Heli fitted with Duels - if so had 'co pilot' - pax anything to do with what happened ? Big bag on knee etc.
Maybe that's where the reason lies.
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Old 25th May 2021, 08:26
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Post

Was this Heli fitted with Duels
I am led to understand that duelling in the cockpit has largely been eliminated since the advent of compulsory CRM training.
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Old 25th May 2021, 10:36
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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"Guns or knives, Butch?"
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Old 25th May 2021, 11:14
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Never bring a knife to a gun fight
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Old 25th May 2021, 14:24
  #39 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by JohnDixson View Post
Media reported:"after undergoing maintenance", in an earlier post. One would think that the ground run part would include trying small control movements and looking for the correct rotor response ( assume one can move the pedals on this model before starting the engine and confirming that control input is free and properly phased. Then, before getting energetic about getting up and away, lift it to just skids beginning to break ground and again, small control inputs, after which a very slow lift to a low hover and repeat the control inputs etc. Not what the video shows, but then again, perhaps something went amiss as they were just slowly lifting and the result was beyond their ability to perform any corrective action. Test flights following maintenance have to be treated very carefully.
I haven't flown a 206 for a quarter century, but I have a few thousand hours in'em, thousands of starts and tens of thousands of takeoffs.
reflight! Preflight! Preflight!. If it's coming out of maintenance review the record and talk to those who did the work.
Part of the (my?) cockpit set up prestart checklist is run the controls through as much of their range as you can, watch the rotors change position appropriately.
The 206 cockpit is narrow, so one can't really 'wipe' the cockpit with the cyclic, but you can check for full and free movement of the pedals and collective. Full right pedal, open the door and lean out to look at the T/R blades for appropriate pitch.
The normal post start included checking that one could isolate the hydraulic system from the pump and the change in control effort is obvious. I can't remember if the controls moved to their trim position in the 206, but one would move them to assure that you could.
A guess as to why this aircraft crashed? A yank and bank gone wrong?
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Old 25th May 2021, 15:29
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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sure looks to me like the left skid toe catches something as they start up. If you play it slow I believe i see the skid deforming a bit down at the same time the ascent is suddenly arrested.
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